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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> running lean/hot /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1283976303 Message started by GrateFuLDad on 09/08/10 at 13:05:02 |
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Title: running lean/hot Post by GrateFuLDad on 09/08/10 at 13:05:02 2003 savage... has new slip on harley exhaust # 64941-01 stock 52.5 and left the 3 metal washers on the needle.. i also left the 155 in for the main... put new mixture screw in because it was eat up from past owner... i cant seem to get the pop corning out of the exhaust after letting off rpm's..... like when riding at high rpm's and start to come off the accel... and down shifting... lots and lots of pop corning... engine is getting really hot also when riding.... i just need to see if anybody can point me to a better setup on what jets i might possibly be able to run to make things run more cool...? the bike seems to perform very well ... has lots of power etc now but the running to hot and lean bothers me... i cant afford to have my daily driver broke down on me.. thanks for any and all advice.. and no I'm not a mechanic ;) also mix screw has been set to 3 1/2 turns out... i had it sit at 2 1/2 but it seemed to pop corn alot more event though its still doing it about as much with 3 1/2 turns... |
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Title: Re: running lean/hot Post by Bubba on 09/08/10 at 13:14:31 The first thing I'd do is go up to a 55 on the pilot and then see if that helps. You should go up on the pilot and then turn your air mix (CW) to fine tune from there. If that helps but doesn't solve it then take out one of the spacers. Small steps and see what the reaction is...if something gets worse you can back out what you changed... |
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Title: Re: running lean/hot Post by Charon on 09/08/10 at 14:32:29 And make notes of what you changed and what happened. Don't depend on memory. |
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Title: Re: running lean/hot Post by Routy on 09/08/10 at 16:25:47 A carb should be adjusted according to how it runs, not how much it backfires. |
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Title: Re: running lean/hot Post by verslagen1 on 09/08/10 at 20:56:37 step 1. get a jet set from lancer. step 2. drop the bowl. step 3. using a short wide flat screwdriver take the main jet out step 4. see what size you have. step 5. go up a size or at least a 150 step 6. also take out the idle mixture jet and go up to the next size. step 7. reassemble and try it out. |
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Title: Re: running lean/hot Post by Hashbrown on 09/08/10 at 21:17:33 does it run smooth wit the choke out |
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Title: Re: running lean/hot Post by Routy on 09/09/10 at 06:01:06 It seems his bike is running/performing good. So is this all about backfiring, or hot and lean. Mine is air cooled also, and also runs hot. Where is the evidence of running lean ? All I'm wondering is why are we hacking the carb on a good running bike ? Is it really hot and lean ? I have to be missing something. |
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Title: Re: running lean/hot Post by bill67 on 09/09/10 at 06:05:34 665340554467546D654045210 wrote:
Run some Sea Foam in it to be sure you float and carb slide is working smooth. |
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Title: Re: running lean/hot Post by Arnold on 09/09/10 at 08:35:39 But isnt backfiring directly related to lean mixture? |
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Title: Re: running lean/hot Post by Charon on 09/09/10 at 09:20:26 If you use the Sea Foam, be sure to let us know whether it worked. |
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Title: Re: running lean/hot Post by DrunkenDwarf on 09/09/10 at 09:24:18 35203B383831203126540 wrote:
Or rich. Or intake leak. Or exhaust leak. Or tuned for performance. (POPs, not BANGs) -D. Dwarf |
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Title: Re: running lean/hot Post by Arnold on 09/09/10 at 09:34:35 Well, I guess I'm in the same situation as caller number one. I cant seem to get rid of all of the popping and I dont want to make the mix too rich either. Although it's not popping that bad anymore thanks to bigger jets and I got rid of the pow on shut off, some popping still remains. |
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Title: Re: running lean/hot Post by GrateFuLDad on 09/10/10 at 04:42:20 i could care less about the popping... so shouldnt even of brought that up... my main concern is running lean/hot.... and yes i know its running lean and hot... exhaust pipes keep turning blue and the engine is running way hot... how do i know this? because a bike should not crackle and get as hot as mine does after a short ride... i figure my jets arent set right in the carb.... i just needed somebody to fill me in with what my setup is on the best possible advice so i could do some changes and maybe have a closer chance to getting it right first time i take carb off rather than the 7th or so on.... thanks for all the info and help.. i will be taking carb off later today sometime... sorry what exactly is sea foam and how do i use it... and i guess my local motorcycle shop should sale it? dont know if float is sticking could be? i am also running a raptor petcock but try to always remember to cut it off when not riding... havent seen any gas puddle or nothing either... and also havent seen any extra oil level from gas seeping in... thanks so much for all the advice.... let me see if i can do any good today... i sure hope so and dont tear nothing up ;) |
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Title: Re: running lean/hot Post by Arnold on 09/10/10 at 05:12:53 I'm confused, you said you left the main jet at 155, isnt the factory jet supposed to be 145? Typically 155 jet works well with a straight exhaust and cone air filter. 52.5 Pilot is factory, you can go up to 55. If you already have a 155 jets, that's stage 3, it should no longer be lean though. You may also want to drop the needle, look for info on white spacer mod. Seafoam may clean up the system but it wont change the mixture. |
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Title: Re: running lean/hot Post by Charon on 09/10/10 at 05:52:12 Sea Foam is a product purported by its makers to clean carburetors and fuel systems. Probably every automotive parts house, as well as Walmart, sells it for about $8.50 for a pint. They have a web site. You can find out what is actually in it by searching "seafoam msds" on your favorite search engine. I tried it, under considerable urging, and for me it did nothing. Your results may vary, and that is why I requested you report them if you use it. If I had done nothing but changed an exhaust, and my bike started running badly, I'd replace the original exhaust and unload the other one on some other pilgrim. |
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Title: Re: running lean/hot Post by jabman on 09/10/10 at 05:59:56 the jets in the carb can gum up partially blocking off fuel causing the lean situation you described. did the bike run ok immediately after any mods or has this problem appeared a while after? |
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Title: Re: running lean/hot Post by bill67 on 09/10/10 at 06:08:54 4F5A4142424B5A4B5C2E0 wrote:
Sea foam will clean up the jets and make the mixture slightly richer. |
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Title: Re: running lean/hot Post by jabman on 09/10/10 at 06:14:42 hey bill would you use the seafoam raw and just drain the carb bowl, fill the bowl up with seafoam, leave it over night and then drain it in the morning ? |
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Title: Re: running lean/hot Post by bill67 on 09/10/10 at 06:21:49 Yes but you have to run the motor to get the sea Foam up in the carb,Run it for a minute or so.then leave over night. |
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Title: Re: running lean/hot Post by jabman on 09/10/10 at 06:30:32 there you go if you really don't what to strip the carb down do that 1st |
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Title: Re: running lean/hot Post by Routy on 09/10/10 at 08:18:03 6D786360606978697E0C0 wrote:
Yes it is, but that doesn't mean that its wrong. Suzuki does NOT guarantee to stop the backfiring on a brand new bike. Yes, part of the reason is because they are under epa regs. But, by design, these engines are known for some backfiring. Sure, some here hack the carb till it doesn't BF as much, but it will still do it under the right conditions. And those are some of the same people that complain of running rich, and have to change the s plug often, and wonder why. If you haven't had to touch the s plug in 6,000 miles, something tells me its running perdy good ::) |
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Title: Re: running lean/hot Post by bill67 on 09/10/10 at 08:25:29 If your not getting 60 mpg you are running to rich or your carb isn't working smooth. Under normal cruising. |
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Title: Re: running lean/hot Post by jabman on 09/10/10 at 08:27:19 one of these days im going to get round to working out my mpg |
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Title: Re: running lean/hot Post by babyhog on 09/10/10 at 08:37:43 I ran out of gas again yesterday, and only had 75 miles since the last time I had fueled. Hubby usually pumps my gas, but I did it last time, so I guess I didn't put enough in it! LOL After switching to reserve, I went straight to the gas station. Added a full 2.0 gallons, so I'm gonna check it better next time. The weather has been cooler here the last few days, and I noticed my bike seemed to run better yesterday. Cool in the mornings, it got to about 70'ish yesterday. Not nearly as much backfiring and popping going on. What does that indicate?? |
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Title: Re: running lean/hot Post by bill67 on 09/10/10 at 08:40:42 That your running a little to rich. |
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Title: Re: running lean/hot Post by ralfyguy on 09/10/10 at 10:30:16 That's kinda how mine runs. Also I must say, that I am one of the ones that doesn't have ANY discoloration on my exhaust. Does that indicate it runs like it's supposed to? |
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Title: Re: running lean/hot Post by Serowbot on 09/10/10 at 10:38:29 686366663C3D0A0 wrote:
+1... cooler air, lower humidity, and lower elevation, all make you run leaner... If your bike runs better in these conditions,... you are generally a little too rich... ;)... |
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Title: Re: running lean/hot Post by babyhog on 09/10/10 at 11:54:06 I'M not too rich, my bike is... LOL But that's what I was thinking. Thx |
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Title: Re: running lean/hot Post by Tiefighterpilot on 09/10/10 at 20:22:36 poping (like popcorn popper) on 1 and 2nd gear... not on 3rd and higher on decel or going down hill. Pop on off. Is this the pilot or can it be main? I have 55pilot, and one size up from stock main. no washer mod, with BCB pipe (small baffle). No leaks in exhaust. KN cone filter (maybe light on oil) thanks in advance for advice. |
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Title: Re: running lean/hot Post by bill67 on 09/10/10 at 20:26:53 I would try going up one more size on the high speed jet. |
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Title: Re: running lean/hot Post by Tiefighterpilot on 09/10/10 at 22:08:06 what would be considered tuned for performance? thanks 2920252C362125440 wrote:
Or rich. Or intake leak. Or exhaust leak. Or tuned for performance. (POPs, not BANGs) -D. Dwarf [/quote] |
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Title: Re: running lean/hot Post by Routy on 09/10/10 at 22:11:45 I'm Rich My bike is perfect. ;D 5E5D5C515349300 wrote:
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Title: Re: running lean/hot Post by jabman on 09/11/10 at 00:12:37 6C515D5E515F504C5D4A485154574C380 wrote:
Or rich. Or intake leak. Or exhaust leak. Or tuned for performance. (POPs, not BANGs) -D. Dwarf [/quote] [/quote] tuned for performance is on the very edge of being lean but not lean, tuned for durability is just a shade richer to keep the engine cooler |
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Title: Re: running lean/hot Post by Tiefighterpilot on 09/12/10 at 17:42:10 thank you. |
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Title: Re: running lean/hot Post by Tiefighterpilot on 09/12/10 at 18:13:08 I was smelling gas with my pilot jet at 55. I as also getting some big pops on shut off. Like a .22 cal gun fire. Popcorns popping on decel. I changed the pilot to 52.5. No more gas smell. but still some loud pops and popcorns. no leaks in exhaust and intake (double checked). Can the gas smell be due to stock washer or spark plug not firing right? too hot or too cold? |
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Title: Re: running lean/hot Post by Arnold on 09/12/10 at 18:20:17 Sounds like it smelled gas with the 55 because you were suddenly idling way too rich. Did you ever try to go clockwise on the mixture screw to go leaner? |
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Title: Re: running lean/hot Post by Tiefighterpilot on 09/12/10 at 19:11:29 Yes, but back firing got really bad. |
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Title: Re: running lean/hot Post by Arnold on 09/13/10 at 05:06:53 You know, I have kind of the same issue. I have the 55 pilot, no gas smell and no leaks but I cant get rid of backfiring once and for all. I just live with it, more noticeable because the muffler has no baffle now. In all, I cant seem to get the performance I want with the sound I want so I am stuck somewhere in between. |
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Title: Re: running lean/hot Post by Tiefighterpilot on 09/13/10 at 10:23:30 have you changed out the spark plug? I am thinking it is not firing all the time. Clymers manual's troubleshooting says that backfiring can be caused by bad or incorrect sparkplug. that is what I will be checking next. Also, do you have washer mod done? |
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Title: Re: running lean/hot Post by Arnold on 09/13/10 at 10:36:00 Yes, I did the 2 white spacer mod while I had the carb opened. I agree with you that my plug may be bad, especially messing with the mixture as I have been. If I must add though, taking the tank off to remove the plug is a crappy design, so far the only bad thing I found about this bike. Laziness so far prevented me to check the plug :) I'll have the shop replace it when my free maintenance is up. |
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Title: Re: running lean/hot Post by Tiefighterpilot on 09/13/10 at 10:57:08 Anyone remember the link to door mod? I can't find it. Thanks. |
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Title: Re: running lean/hot Post by Arnold on 09/13/10 at 11:04:35 What's door mod? |
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Title: Re: running lean/hot Post by Tiefighterpilot on 09/13/10 at 11:53:27 This mod will allow access to spark plug without removing the tank. Open the chrom cover like door. |
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Title: Re: running lean/hot Post by Arnold on 09/13/10 at 11:56:34 Holy crap, I want that. Search is on... |
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Title: Re: running lean/hot Post by Arnold on 09/13/10 at 11:59:30 Here it is: http://www.jonline.org/savage/Tips___How-to_s/Tips___Tricks/tips___tricks.htm |
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Title: Re: running lean/hot Post by Tiefighterpilot on 09/13/10 at 12:03:24 Sweet! Sorry my response are short... typing from frm phone. |
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Title: Re: running lean/hot Post by Arnold on 09/13/10 at 12:16:29 Still requires to take tank off the first time though. All it says is to remove the rear bolt though and keep it off. |
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Title: Re: running lean/hot Post by Tiefighterpilot on 09/13/10 at 12:25:52 yes, but it beats having to remove the tank everytime you want to check the plug. |
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Title: Re: running lean/hot Post by Arnold on 09/13/10 at 12:47:32 As long as the accent can hold with one bolt. I may remove the accents altogether. Or does it look like crap? |
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Title: Re: running lean/hot Post by Routy on 09/14/10 at 16:40:34 Please, tell me how you can not know for certain whether or not the spark plug in a single cylinder engine is firing or not. Asked in other words,....what happens when a single cylinder engine starts missing ? ;D 7944484B444A4559485F5D444142592D0 wrote:
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Title: Re: running lean/hot Post by Tiefighterpilot on 09/14/10 at 18:02:22 Backfires according to clymers. |
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Title: Re: running lean/hot Post by DangMan on 09/19/10 at 12:41:33 or here http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?board=tech;action=display;num=1124016763 |
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Title: Re: running lean/hot Post by GrateFuLDad on 09/20/10 at 11:04:22 2003 savage... has new slip on harley exhaust # 64941-01 Ok I finally have pulled the carb on a lean/hot running bike that performs well…. ;) pulled plug and its dry grey .... Dropped bowl on bottom and ,I found that I have a 52.5 for a pilot and have a 55 from lancer here so going to put that in… Also the main is a 155… think I may stay with that rather than go with the 150 I have here… Top of carb under needle diaphragm I found smaller jet a 45.. Bigger jet under diaphragm is a 230… After taking screws out of needle I found that I had two metal washers….. if? there was a third I sure could not get it out of there.. Put two washers back in that fell out and screws and plate… reassembled… I have the bike in shambles right now as I am doing all sorts of things before I put her back together again… The carb was on this list… Having some issues with adjusting the valves though..? maybe my aircooled vw’s just have me spoiled is all.. ;) |
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