SuzukiSavage.com - Print Page

SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl
General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Stalls out when I give it gas
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1282863925

Message started by Troublefunk on 08/26/10 at 16:05:25

Title: Stalls out when I give it gas
Post by Troublefunk on 08/26/10 at 16:05:25

Hey guys. I've enjoyed reading the forums ever since I bought my Savage earlier this summer. It's great to find such a dedicated community for this fine motorcycle. This is my first bike, and I've had a blast riding it around New York's Hudson Valley for the past few months. Last week on my way home from work the bike starting sputtering bad and losing power. It was pretty sudden, but I did have time (and power) to pull off the main road and find a more suitable place to check it out.
As you can see in the video (in message below), it starts right up and idles fine, but as soon as I give it throttle it wants to stall out. But if I ease it off, the engine recovers and keeps on thumping. What do you guys think? Fuel filter? Carburetor? Something else? I wanted to check before taking things apart.

Thanks!

Title: Re: Stalls out when I give it gas
Post by Troublefunk on 08/26/10 at 16:05:57

The problem:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHwymO7OOVA

Title: Re: Stalls out when I give it gas
Post by bill67 on 08/26/10 at 16:38:15

First I would try some Sea Foam in the gas tank,That a carb clean that you can get at most Wal Mart or auto stores.

Title: Re: Stalls out when I give it gas
Post by jsarsfield on 08/26/10 at 17:02:03

Don't listen to Bill there are some preliminary steps that you should first make and Seafoam isn't a carb cleaning I don't care what anyone says.

First off try running the bike on Prime to rule out the petcock. Also have you checked your air filter? could be almost plugged and that could be causing the bog down. Those are the first two things I would try. Also check your vacuum line for cracks or just replace it.

Title: Re: Stalls out when I give it gas
Post by babyhog on 08/26/10 at 17:05:43

+1 jsarsfield's comments. Do the easy things that don't require anything but time and effort first.

Title: Re: Stalls out when I give it gas
Post by Troublefunk on 08/26/10 at 17:56:25

I had it on Prime when I made the video. The problem is worse in the On or Reserve positions, meaning it wants to stall out if I give it even a little gas. The vacuum line looks OK, and I blew out the air filter a couple weeks ago, though I'll look at that again.
One other potentially relevant detail: I've always felt a very subtle inconsistency in the engine at cruising speed (60mph). Not a loss of power, but just a twinge of not being 100 percent at all times. After having this recent problem I thought that might have been indicating the spark plug was misfiring, but changing the spark plug didn't fix my problem.

Title: Re: Stalls out when I give it gas
Post by Routy on 08/26/10 at 17:59:06

Hey !!!! Lighten up on Bill ! He has his opinion, you have yours.

I agree, IMO seafoam isn't the place to start in this situation, but before tearing into the carb, seafoam could be the easier answer.

Title: Re: Stalls out when I give it gas
Post by bill67 on 08/26/10 at 18:00:06

Sea Foam

Title: Re: Stalls out when I give it gas
Post by Routy on 08/26/10 at 18:07:56

Its not the air filter.
And prime didn't fix it.
If its not the fuel filter...and I doubt it is,
I'd say you're into the carb,....
and if you're a believer in seafoam, that could fix it.

Title: Re: Stalls out when I give it gas
Post by Charon on 08/26/10 at 19:12:03

There is a screen in the fuel tank. You might check for free fuel flow. With the petcock in ON or RES, pull the fuel line off the carburetor. No fuel should flow, other than a few drops in the line. Holding the fuel line where spilled fuel won't be a problem, such as pointing into a can, turn the petcock to PRIme. Fuel should flow freely. If it doesn't, the problem is upstream from the carb. If it does, turn the petcock back to ON and reinstall the fuel line. Open the drain in the bottom of the carburetor, holding a container under it so you can catch and examine whatever comes out. You should get a few ounces of fuel as the bowl drains. If you get water, turn the petcock back to PRIme and let it flow until you get clean gas out the carb drain. If you get dirt or rust, you might as well take the carb off and clean it, because nothing will dissolve dirt. You will also need to clean out the tank, because the dirt/rust didn't get generated in the carburetor. Cleaning the carburetor without cleaning the tank will be an exercise in futility. Adding an in-line filter will keep the dirt out of the carb, but it will plug up itself instead. By the way, there is supposed to be a filter in the carburetor inlet, too.

Title: Re: Stalls out when I give it gas
Post by Troublefunk on 08/26/10 at 19:44:22

There is a screen in the fuel tank. You might check for free fuel flow. With the petcock in ON or RES, pull the fuel line off the carburetor. No fuel should flow, other than a few drops in the line.

I had to pull off that line when I took the tank off, and discovered that fuel still flowed in ON and RES positions! Separate or related problem?

Title: Re: Stalls out when I give it gas
Post by jsarsfield on 08/26/10 at 19:50:18

2B243E25393F2C2E26283F4D0 wrote:

Its not the air filter.
And prime didn't fix it.
If its not the fuel filter...and I doubt it is,
I'd say you're into the carb,....
and if you're a believer in seafoam, that could fix it.

I still would try and start the bike with the air filter out of it by the sounds of the video the bike was either losing a vacuum or starving for air I'm betting on the air filter mine did almost the same thing when I first got it. I have no problem with Seafoam and use it all the time and I was just joking with Bill but stand by what I said.

Another thing nobody has suggested ... Have you changed the gas in the tank? Old gas can really make you think you have a carb problem.

Title: Re: Stalls out when I give it gas
Post by verslagen1 on 08/26/10 at 20:01:46

5C7A677D6A646D6E7D6663080 wrote:

could be related, I would take it apart and inspect it. i've taken a few apart and while not clogged, it does collect some crap.

there's 4 screws on the back side which reveal the diaphragm. the diaphragm is sealed to the body with a gasket, so you might need some rtv to put it back on.

behind the diaphragm is the vac operated seal.

Title: Re: Stalls out when I give it gas
Post by Digger on 08/26/10 at 20:47:08

Some good replies here, as usual....

I'd try all of the easy stuff first. Then, if still no joy, try putting in a new spark plug before you get into the carb....you might just get lucky!

Good luck!

Title: Re: Stalls out when I give it gas
Post by verslagen1 on 08/26/10 at 22:20:32

well, that would be next easiest thing to look at, the sparkplug.

if it's white, then it's not getting gas.
if it's wet or black then it's getting too much gas.

and if it's getting too much gas, bet your main has come unscrewed and is sitting in the bottom of the bowl.

Title: Re: Stalls out when I give it gas
Post by Troublefunk on 08/26/10 at 22:40:01

I changed the spark plug as soon as this happened. No luck!

Title: Re: Stalls out when I give it gas
Post by verslagen1 on 08/26/10 at 22:44:29

what did it look like?

what does the current one look like?

Title: Re: Stalls out when I give it gas
Post by Routy on 08/26/10 at 22:58:41

Quote:
Last week on my way home from work the bike starting sputtering bad and losing power. It was pretty sudden,
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
An air filter never plugs up suddenly !
A fuel filter normally does not plug up suddenly !
A chunk of stuff does get stuck in the carburator suddenly !

Title: Re: Stalls out when I give it gas
Post by Troublefunk on 08/26/10 at 23:18:47

http://i38.tinypic.com/20f2hht.jpg here's what the old spark plug looks like. I assumed it wasn't the problem since the symptoms were identical with a shiny new one.

Routy- how should I proceed to diagnose and clean a clogged carb?

Title: Re: Stalls out when I give it gas
Post by Hashbrown on 08/27/10 at 00:22:00

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1191899985

follow this thread. dont even need to fully dissasemble, take the bottom off, acts as a little tray. unscrew the jets and all the little screws and put them in the tray (bottom of carb) and pour/spray carb cleaner in to let it soak. check inside the carb and spray/clean it. dont know what ur running but u can do the spacer mod since u got the whole thing off. CAREFUL of those little screws on the top inside the diaphram, you'll hate yourself if u strip them. can find a screw in a PC to replace it if needed. put the whole thing back together and replace the outer screws with allen head bolts. tah-da! clean

Title: Re: Stalls out when I give it gas
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/27/10 at 01:10:35

W/ the petcock "On" ( Not Prime), drain the bowl.
I'd pull thecarb, because the screws can be so hard to turn. It would be easier to notstrip them if its on the bench.
Neversieze is a Tool, not just a lubricant.
A handheld impact is CHEAP, especially when it saves you from a stripped head on a phillips screw.
These are JISscrews, not #2 Phillips. Digger has the source for the right screwdrivers. Hes posted it numerous times & ( Im sorry Digger), Iveyet to get the things or write it down. Ive had good luck, not wrecking these screws. BeCertain the bit is seated squarely. A quick , light, tap on a screwdriver can break the "stick" the screwshave with the aluminum.

NOTE: The Harbor Freight impact ( About $6.00) made a few uses, then siezed up. Disassembled & discovered the ball that runs in the grooves had driven the edge of the grooves up, binding inside the handle. Mere moments on the bench grinder solved it. REassembled & tested, back to "Like New" performance.

Title: Re: Stalls out when I give it gas
Post by Charon on 08/27/10 at 06:23:00

I had not watched the video before my first stab at the problem. I think now you have a plugged main jet. At idle the engine gets its fuel via the pilot jet, which may still be clear. When you open the throttle the engine is supposed to draw more fuel through the main (metered by the needle). If that jet is plugged, the carburetor supplies more air via the slide, but the extra fuel doesn't make it through the clogged jet, the mixture goes lean, and the engine dies. As Routy pointed out, the sudden onset of the problem points to dirt or rust plugging a jet.

Your comment that fuel continues to flow when the petcock is ON also points to a piece of crud holding the petcock seal open. You never mentioned the age of the bike, but the video makes it several years old because the cylinder is shiny instead of black. My bet: rust in the tank.

Title: Re: Stalls out when I give it gas
Post by Troublefunk on 08/27/10 at 19:26:56

First of all thanks to everyone who's responded. This really is a great forum. To answer a question above, my bike is a '98.
I tried adding some seafoam to the gas earlier today and let it idle for awhile, but that didn't make any difference. I know it can be applied more directly, through the air intake and in other ways. I've read referenced to a few other intakes but I'm not sure if they apply. I didn't think the vacuum line would be the way to go. Maybe I'm supposed to have a really narrow funnel to go straight into the carburetor where the fuel line goes?
Anyway after asking around I'm getting the sense that my problem might be beyond using an additive, which seems to work best for bikes that are able to get around but run rough. Mine won't go anywhere.
I'm feeling inclined to just pull the carb out and take it over to my work bench and take it apart. Between the thread on this forum with the step by step photos and the clymer manual I feel like I have enough information to do that. Based on responses above, I gather I need:
1. To order up some JIS screwdrivers
2. Get some loctite
3. Get a different kind of carb cleaner for the parts to soak in
4. Flush the gas tank
5. Install an inline fuel filter to prevent (what we're assuming is) the problem from occurring again.

Title: Re: Stalls out when I give it gas
Post by bill67 on 08/27/10 at 19:35:53

It takes Sea Foam a little time to work,Its got to clean up the stuff try running it tomorrow.You can put Sea Foam in the fuel bowl it will work faster that way.

Title: Re: Stalls out when I give it gas
Post by verslagen1 on 08/27/10 at 19:39:47

The spray can of carb cleaner may be enough.
But even then, may take a couple of tries to get everything clean and working right. yes, I can recall the trouble I had doing my 1st one.

the screws can be a be otch to take out. make sure to support the screw from under neath and either press down hard or get the small impact driver from hf. and if the little ones inside the slide give you any trouble leave alone. not worth f'ing them up. The big ones with the head all exposed, you can use a vise grip if you plan on replacing them.

don't clean anything rubber with the carb cleaner, if anything, use mild dishwashing soap and water.

you don't need locktite, just torque properly.

Title: Re: Stalls out when I give it gas
Post by Troublefunk on 08/27/10 at 20:00:41

How do I get to the fuel bowl? Have to take the top off the carb right?

Title: Re: Stalls out when I give it gas
Post by jsarsfield on 08/27/10 at 20:20:04

795F42584F41484B5843462D0 wrote:

How do I get to the fuel bowl? Have to take the top off the carb right?

Title: Re: Stalls out when I give it gas
Post by verslagen1 on 08/27/10 at 21:57:18

223B293A3B2E212D242C480 wrote:

[quote author=795F42584F41484B5843462D0 link=1282863925/15#25 date=1282964441]How do I get to the fuel bowl? Have to take the top off the carb right?

There is 4 screws on the bottom of the carb also a drain plug in the center. Remove the 4 screws and the bowl drops down. Personally if I was you I'd just try and clean the carb from the bottom first without removing it completely. Its a real pregnant dog getting back in. With the fuel bowl removed you can access most of the critical parts including the very suspect main fuel jet. Be very careful removing the jets they are made of soft brass use the right width flat screw driver.[/quote]

If this is the 1st time it's been off, it'll be very hard to remove the screws. Even after doing mine, when I did another, practically new one, still required the vice grips to break them loose. but he had the ss allen screws waiting to go in.

And, I just dropped my bowl. I had to loosen the carb intake clamp a little, and pry up the rear of the carb while pushing the battery box to the rear a little.

Title: Re: Stalls out when I give it gas
Post by jsarsfield on 08/27/10 at 22:30:01

554651504F4244464D12230 wrote:

[quote author=223B293A3B2E212D242C480 link=1282863925/15#26 date=1282965604][quote author=795F42584F41484B5843462D0 link=1282863925/15#25 date=1282964441]How do I get to the fuel bowl? Have to take the top off the carb right?

Title: Re: Stalls out when I give it gas
Post by Charon on 08/28/10 at 05:57:22

262D28287273440 wrote:

It takes Sea Foam a little time to work,Its got to clean up the stuff try running it tomorrow.You can put Sea Foam in the fuel bowl it will work faster that way.

Interesting - the can of Sea Foam I bought says "INSTANT ACTION SEA FOAM MOTOR TREATMENT" and a few lines later (in caps) says "WORKS AND PERFORMS INSTANTLY". I can only quote the label on the can - no editorial comments added. After all, if it weren't perfectly true they wouldn't print it on the can.

Title: Re: Stalls out when I give it gas
Post by bill67 on 08/28/10 at 06:22:59

If you put Sea Foam in your Gas tank and run it for a minute it hasn't got in to the carb yet,Once it gets there it does start working instantly.

Title: Re: Stalls out when I give it gas
Post by verslagen1 on 08/28/10 at 09:48:02

36100D17000E0704170C09620 wrote:

How do I get to the fuel bowl? Have to take the top off the carb right?

Best way, buy a mix master syringe at wally world and pump it straight into the carb thru the gas line.

Title: Re: Stalls out when I give it gas
Post by Digger on 08/28/10 at 19:50:29

6A796E6F707D7B79722D1C0 wrote:

.....If this is the 1st time it's been off, it'll be very hard to remove the screws......

Might wanna think about getting #1 and #2 JIS screwdrivers. They are a big help, IMHO.

Title: Re: Stalls out when I give it gas
Post by Troublefunk on 09/04/10 at 13:12:04

http://i51.tinypic.com/vg352x.jpg

I'm no expert, but I'd say my main jet was indeed clogged! Anybody have a clue what might have cause that weird gunk to build up like that?

Title: Re: Stalls out when I give it gas
Post by verslagen1 on 09/04/10 at 13:37:10

given the color of your floats... water and gas/ethylene.

Title: Re: Stalls out when I give it gas
Post by bill67 on 09/04/10 at 14:13:18

That from that good 10% gasoline that somebody on here says cleans the carb as you drive.

Title: Re: Stalls out when I give it gas
Post by Charon on 09/04/10 at 17:46:51

I note that the original poster said he tried Sea Foam, and it didn't make any difference. Now we have a photo of an obviously clogged main jet. Based on this thread, it would appear Sea Foam did not help him very much. It also looks to me as if there was water standing in the float bowl for quite some time, causing the discoloration of the floats. I wonder whether that water was still in there when the carb was taken apart? Again, no editorials - just reporting observations.

Title: Re: Stalls out when I give it gas
Post by Troublefunk on 09/04/10 at 18:01:27

Adding sea foam to the gas tank, then directly into the fuel intake on the carb with an eye dropper didn't solve the problem after a half dozen idle and revving sessions. Probably ran for a total of 30 minutes over a few days. Maybe it would have worked if I'd kept with that, or put sea foam in a spray bottle and went through the air intake, but just sitting in place idling the air-cooled bike was not happy. Pulling the carb and taking off the float bowl and cleaning the jets solved the problem and didn't take a huge amount of time and effort.
I didn't notice any water in the bowl, but then the amount of water necessary to cause a problem might not be noticeable, right? I took it out for a spin earlier and it ran all right. Thanks everyone for your suggestions. I think this thread will be useful for people in the future. Watch the video for the symptom, then scan ahead and see the clogged main jet. Good stuff!

Title: Re: Stalls out when I give it gas
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/04/10 at 23:47:09

EWWWW! BoooGerzzz!