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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Rear Cam Chain Guide ooppsie /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1282670866 Message started by nathanhooper on 08/24/10 at 10:27:46 |
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Title: Rear Cam Chain Guide ooppsie Post by nathanhooper on 08/24/10 at 10:27:46 So the detailed description is on my other post "front fender alignment" but seeing how it doesn't really go under that topic I thought I would make a new one here. So I made an ooppsie with the rear guide of the cam chain. I took the top 10mm bolt almost out, but as I described before, I do not believe it ever came out of the guide itself. I could be wrong, and so that is the reason why I post this. Is there a way of telling whether or not it did come out? Is there anything that would be 'telling' me, sound wise, or performance wise, that the guide is not in the proper place? Or is it one of those parts that would just start rubbing and not cause a problem until later? I intend to take it apart the first chance I get, seeing how I like to take things apart so much anyways. I just am curious as to the ramifications of driving it home and such. I did not realize what I did until this morning, after I got to work. Thanks guys!! |
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Title: Re: Rear Cam Chain Guide ooppsie Post by Phelonius on 08/24/10 at 10:58:28 The easy way is to start the engine up and if it does not make graunching noises it's okay. The slow way is to remove the rocker cap and look. Be sure you reset the valves afterward. |
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Title: Re: Rear Cam Chain Guide ooppsie Post by nathanhooper on 08/24/10 at 11:33:44 Well...seeing how I have ridden it over 15 miles already, I am in the clear? lol. So your thinking that it would indeed cause some sort of malfunction if the guide was not fasten in place where it should be? |
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Title: Re: Rear Cam Chain Guide ooppsie Post by BurnPgh on 08/24/10 at 11:42:59 rear guide attaches to the cam chain tensioner. If the guide is loose the tensioner has little to no effect. Timing gets thrown off and you get a very large, expensive, heavy paperweight on wheels. |
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Title: Re: Rear Cam Chain Guide ooppsie Post by nathanhooper on 08/24/10 at 12:02:09 Not negating what you said, and not trying to make a play on words, but doesnt the cam chain tensioner actually attach to the rear guide, which then attaches to the block. But if I understand what you are trying to say, if it was indeed loose then I would know it? I get the paper weight thing, that is what i am trying to avoid. lol |
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Title: Re: Rear Cam Chain Guide ooppsie Post by verslagen1 on 08/24/10 at 12:04:02 In my opinion, if you had taken the pin out and the guide dropped, you wouldn't have been able to get it back it. The nest that the guide sits in is not large enough for it to slip far enough down to allow you to put the pin back in with out it also being in the guide. |
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Title: Re: Rear Cam Chain Guide ooppsie Post by nathanhooper on 08/24/10 at 15:22:36 So your saying it 'should' have, not to be confused with "would have", hit up against the guide as I was starting the treads back in the hole. It is most likely that if the bolt was taken too far out and placed back in it would hit the side of the guide? I am a big hypochondriac, very big one, I rode the bike on in to school this evening, another 10 or so miles, and it just seemed a little bit more noisy. But then again, I haven't driven much, and did change the oil last night to a different one, with not as much in there. Who knows. I could be sweating it for nothing, but then again I could have it lock up one doing 55 down the hiway. Time will tell, but I think I am going to take her apart tommorrow afternoon. I am thinking just pulling the head cover off should allow me to see the guide and washer and all. Or would I be better off pulling the side cover and checking it that way? I wouldn't be able to see the top part of the guide, but shouldn't I be able to tell if it is being held by the bolt up there? Please advise... |
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Title: Re: Rear Cam Chain Guide ooppsie Post by verslagen1 on 08/24/10 at 15:38:11 I advise you to see a shrink, or ride more, eat a bug or two, and worry about when it'll run dry. |
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Title: Re: Rear Cam Chain Guide ooppsie Post by nathanhooper on 08/24/10 at 16:25:07 I've had bad experiences with skunks, sometimes I will ride around in a circle at the local walmart parking lot for an hour or two, I much prefere cats over bugs, and I always keep a jug of fresh water and air in case I run dry. But I still hear voices.....they say, 'click, clack, rattle rattle, bing, spat'...if you guys never hear from me again just know that she ran dry and I decided to take her to the lake and go for a swim. |
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Title: Re: Rear Cam Chain Guide ooppsie Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/25/10 at 00:00:38 You'd have to unscrew that chrome headed bolt & PULL the thing out a pretty good ways to allow the cam chain guide to fall. How farDID you pull it? |
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Title: Re: Rear Cam Chain Guide ooppsie Post by nathanhooper on 08/25/10 at 05:02:04 I pulled it till i felt it come out of the opposite side "hole" that it sits in. If you understand what I mean. It was completely unscrewed, and I started to see a little of the machined surface the guide pivots on, then I felt the tension give a little but not completely, and realized that it was a real bad idea to do what I was doing. I cannot say that I could tell anyone the exact measurement, I guess I could try it again, lol. Would that be a bad idea? I mean, if I were going to take it apart anyways, what if I backed out that bolt again to see if the tension is still there, or take a measurement? Or is that trying to push it too far, lol. Its all fun and games till someone gets an eye poked out. |
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Title: Re: Rear Cam Chain Guide ooppsie Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/25/10 at 05:17:49 Idsay youd have to pull the threads away from the point they disengaged at least 3/4 of an inch before it would drop the guide. Mines apart, Ill look today. Im bettin youre okay. |
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Title: Re: Rear Cam Chain Guide ooppsie Post by nathanhooper on 08/25/10 at 05:42:26 That would be AWESOME to have a pictures of that, the chain guide, what it would look like pulled out far enough to drop the guide, etc. Pictures of that area would be better than a bar of gold right now. A picture is worth a thousand words. THANKS a ton. I understand if you cannot get pictures, but if you could it would be great. |
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Title: Re: Rear Cam Chain Guide ooppsie Post by Bubba on 08/25/10 at 07:59:36 NH, I appreciate your investigative qualities but in reading some of your posts I fear you're not leaving well enough alone. Sure it's fun to tinker with bikes but I would be inclined to tell you "if it ain't broke, don't fix it"...like pulling the head off. I'm not trying to discourage you, just saying that stuff can wait till winter. I may be wrong but it I believe you said this was your first bike, just get on it and ride. Remember, your sitting right on top of the engine...it's bound to make noises. |
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Title: Re: Rear Cam Chain Guide ooppsie Post by nathanhooper on 08/25/10 at 08:34:43 Not my first bike. If it is not broke I do intend to not try and fix it. But I wasn't trying to fix anything when I took the bolt off, just looking around. It is definitely something I need to work on, my abject desire to learn the hard way that is. I appreciate the advise, really I do, and I do just get on it and ride, even when I am unsure of whether or not it does need to be fixed. That is what I am trying to come to the conclusion about. I like the point of view, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it", but unfortunately that statement does not fit into every aspect of a machine. There is a thing called 'preventive' maintenance, it is much more preferred and shown to have a better outcome than 'reactive' maintenance. I am trying to 'prevent' anything else from going wrong if indeed I did let the guide slip, or dropped the little washer down in the case. Not 'react' when my engine locks up because I had the attitude of 'oh well'. As my actions show, however, I am pretty confident that it did not drop or else I would not be ridding it. I would assume that seeing how the stock cam chain adjuster is 'known' to pose a failure then it is a wise idea to try and 'fix' them before they break, not fix them after it is broke. You are correct, and make a very profound and sometimes overlooked statement, that we indeed sit right on top of a running engine while ridding. They main purpose of this post is to know whether or not to dig deeper. There is somewhat of a dry humor coming from my end because of the disgust I feel toward by stupidity, not to be confused with ignorance, in doing things I know I shouldn't. I do not just plan on taking a wrench and throwing nuts and bolts and covers all over the place. Sometimes the stupid things actually help me in the long run because they make me become more focused and reserved. I ain't touching a bolt until I get word from Justin on his findings, or the bike locks up on me. I am not a newbie to the world of mechanics, just stupid at times... |
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Title: Re: Rear Cam Chain Guide ooppsie Post by Bubba on 08/25/10 at 08:49:49 Yep, preventative medicine DOES work. My own personal relationships with things mechanical has been that I often start something and then as I go deeper and deeper I find I've messed things up that weren't messed up before (example: My wife wanted a new faucet in the bathroom, then we decided it would be good to replace the tub and shower enclosure...well, if we're gonna do that then we should get a new vanity too...you get the picture...whole new bathroom!) I do plan to verslavy but only when I get to the point where I have the miles to warrant it and when I have downtime during the winter. MY nature is that once I start on something and start to screw it up by God I'm not gonna pay someone to do it... ;) |
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Title: Re: Rear Cam Chain Guide ooppsie Post by nathanhooper on 08/25/10 at 10:03:03 Amen to that. Precisly why I got this bike. Supposed to be easy to work on, provided you follow rules. lol. I hear you on the deeper and deeper part. I had planned on looking into my bike later on this winter also after the miles had gotten more. And hopefully I will get to wait till then. I think I will. I really, really like the bike. It needs some tune up done, which I am going to follow step by step this weekend. Hopefully one day I will be experienced enough with this bikes set up I can know a tenth of what the other guys on here know. Until then I'll keep asking questions and try not to dig any deeper than my knowledge goes. If only I had listened to that little voice telling me not to turn the wrench...lol. |
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Title: Re: Rear Cam Chain Guide ooppsie Post by verslagen1 on 08/25/10 at 11:38:41 If you still intend on taking it apart to verify that the guide is still connected to the pivot pin, do the cam chain adjuster check in the tech doc's. You'll be able see if it's still operating correctly from there. And if neccessary, put your hand on it so that you can realign it to the post. You can't do this from above, only from below. |
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Title: Re: Rear Cam Chain Guide ooppsie Post by nathanhooper on 08/25/10 at 11:52:43 I am hoping that Justin will get back on here later and verify that what you thought earlier, and what I have been leaning toward, is indeed true that it did not come out. But I would DEFINITELY do the adjuster check if I took the side cover off. I am not sure how this thing was treated so I will probably be doing the check before the normal mileage. If it turns out that I am probably alright now, this winter will be the time as it should have around 10,000 miles on it by then. But, I might find myself bored one weekend coming up and do it then, lol. Never know. How long would it take to get the after-market adjuster and parts in if it turns out that the stock adjuster is wearing rapidly? I guess that is a question to ask when the time comes, but never hurts to have some fore-planing done. |
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Title: Re: Rear Cam Chain Guide ooppsie Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/25/10 at 20:33:59 Once the threads disengage, thers about 1/2 inch of the post still engaged in therear chain guide. If you pulled it back more than 1/2", you should go look. |
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Title: Re: Rear Cam Chain Guide ooppsie Post by verslagen1 on 08/25/10 at 22:42:00 jog, try pulling out that pin (if you still have the clutch cover open) to see if the guide will drop down far enough to allow the pin to be replaced. I'm guessing it drop, but not far enough to allow the pin to be replaced. |
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Title: Re: Rear Cam Chain Guide ooppsie Post by nathanhooper on 08/26/10 at 05:40:12 Thank you very, very much for doing that for me justin. I am sure that it will help others out also. I cannot be the only person that has had, or will ever have, a stupid moment. 1/2"... that is hard to say. It happened so quickly, and my mind has been doing the "what if" dance for the last couple of days, so I cannot say for absolute that I did not. First thoughts are seeing how I posted that I only saw the machined surface after the threads and then placed back in, then it would seem as though I would not have pulled it more than 1/2" in out. But, 1/2" is not much at all, if you would have said 3/4" then I would say for sure that i did not pull that much out. I am going to bet that I was real close to it, but no cigar. I would be VERY interested in the outcome, if possible for you to do, of what verslagen is suggesting. If it is indeed true, then that would take the question out of the picture of whether or not it dropped. I got to thinking also yesterday, tell me what you guys think; Lets say the guide did drop, it is possible to put the bolt back in, and it doesn't seem to do much to performance on the bike for a while. However, if the guide dropped, then would that mean it would have more or less contact with the chain? If it had more contact with the chain, then wouldn't bits and pieces of the guide be worn off rapidly? And if you were to drain your oil after 3 or 4 hundred miles, wouldn't those pieces be seen in the oil? Just a thought. |
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Title: Re: Rear Cam Chain Guide ooppsie Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/26/10 at 09:39:19 766572736C6167656E31000 wrote:
Wouldnt be a fair comparisson. My guide is a 2 piece item, so the top isnt supported/weighed down by the lower half & the tensioner assy. the tensioner on mine was tilted down hard on the right side. The guide had fallen. Only difference is conditions. Mine was rolled around, engine turned to TDC, etc, etc.. A complete guide in an engine that wasnt being turned over, or bike moved up & onto atrailer,, etc.. might not let the thing move.. If I was afraid Id dropped the guide, what would I do?> Id ask the engine guru types how to prove it w/o opening anything up. Question. If a guy loosened that hanger post up & rolled the bike front & back, wouldnt the guide rise &fall, wiggling the thing? Pull the p[lug to make it easier. Note, also, IF upon rolling backwards the pin gets slack in it but ittakes a couple inches of forward motion before the pin lifts, then its OFF.. |
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Title: Re: Rear Cam Chain Guide ooppsie Post by nathanhooper on 08/26/10 at 11:00:05 So you are POSSIBLY sugesting, I know that you would not tell me to do something that is not a proven way of doing things, but you are sugesting that if I were to unscrew the pin, roll the bike back and forth in gear(?), the movement of the gears would transfer through the clutch, so on, and to the crankshaft, which would move the cam chain? Then with the cam chain moving, if the rear guide WAS held by the pin, then I would see it move with every little movement of the rear wheel. But, if it had indeed came off then rocking the bike one way would make it move, but rocking it the other way would possibly have no effect because it would supposedly not be exerting any tension on the guide in that direction? It definitely sounds plausible. But, if verslagen's theory were indeed correct, well almost correct, and there is not much room for the guide to fall, but there was ENOUGH room for it to fall and barely let the pin go back into place, then it would still make the pin wiggle right? But maybe not, now that I think about it. That does sound like a fairly good idea to try. Unless someone else has another way, or a reason why they would not try this one. If only there was a way to look inside without opening it up... So justin, your guide had fallen off, had it been ridden much with it off? The reason I ask is if my theory on finding bits and pieces of the guide in the oil might be one sign of it being off. |
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Title: Re: Rear Cam Chain Guide ooppsie Post by verslagen1 on 08/26/10 at 11:34:21 JOG has a rare case which of busted guide due to a clutch cam failure. DOESN'T APPLY TO YOU, NOTHING TO SEE. KEEP MOVING. I have to do some maintenance, I'll check his idea out this weekend. you'll find it very hard to roll the bike in gear with the sparkplug in. You need one of these... http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/images/B001AOVBHG/ref=dp_image_0?ie=UTF8&n=228013&s=hi |
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Title: Re: Rear Cam Chain Guide ooppsie Post by nathanhooper on 08/26/10 at 17:12:55 4D5E4948575A5C5E550A3B0 wrote:
I have been doing some research, found some of his earlier posts, good stuff. No need to yell...lol. I understand there is nothing to see, I was making another smart-witted comment. Those comments do get me misunderstood sometimes, need to get a handle on it. :-X You have to admit though, it would be very nice to have a see through case cover. I mean how cool would it be to see the inside of your engine working. Not to mention how much stinking panic attacks and late night worries would be solved if you could just simply see what your cam chain and adjuster look like. There is an invention idea, for whoever feels the need to crawl in the womb. I would very, very, much appreciate it if you did indeed try that test that justin is mentioning. I plan on doing it myself, although I am sure you would know what to feel for a whole lot better than I. But when you sit back and think about it there should be some downward pressure exerted on the pin if the guide is still on it. Right? I figure it cant hurt to try. Although it's by God's grace I might have avoided pulling the pin out too far last time, and sometimes you really shouldn't push it too far. But I believe that if I just pulled it out till I saw the treads disengage then that would mean that the pin is not being held by something and is free to move around a bit. Then if there is no pressure, or just upward pressure, then there is a good possibility it is out of the guide. What do you guys think, realistically, is there something I am missing here? |
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Title: Re: Rear Cam Chain Guide ooppsie Post by verslagen1 on 08/26/10 at 17:46:08 7B74617D747B7D7A7A657067150 wrote:
So now you know what it takes to make an ol' timer squirm. |
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Title: Re: Rear Cam Chain Guide ooppsie Post by nathanhooper on 08/26/10 at 18:03:55 Old? Nahhh......see...I know when to stop myself. |
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Title: Re: Rear Cam Chain Guide ooppsie Post by nathanhooper on 08/27/10 at 09:07:40 Well I got to thinking...this is insanity! The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and always coming up with the same outcome. Well its close enough to the definition. I bought my bike with the reasoning that it is a fairly simple piece of machinery, compared to most, and therefore it would not take a rocket scientist to work on it. I am pretty mechanically inclined, when I am not making stupid mistakes like taking out bolts I have no idea about, and I like to work on my own things. There is a ton of useful information on here, from very nice people, on how to go about tune ups and checking things, so on and so forth. Why in the world am I sitting around guessing about whether or not it is off? Is it worth taking a spill? Blowing a engine? Or is it worth the $20 bucks in materials, and time, to take the case off and look at the guide to know for sure? No brainer. Sure, no one like to have to do something if it is not absolutely required, but I think reason/common sense says that if a mistake was made, then you don't just try and cover up the mistake, you correct it. Seeing how there is not a definite way of checking for sure, I am pulling the cover off tonight/tomorrow. Besides, I bought the bike used, 8500 miles, 2005, two owners that I know of. Seeing how these bikes are known to have problems with tensioner then would it not be a wise idea to inspect them right off hand anyways? If you bought a car and knew the company had a tendency to have issues with one thing or another wouldn't you check them out? Is this common sense? Or am I being stupid again? I think I am going to do the workup on this bike so I can be completely confident in knowing my way around it, and what shape it is in right now. Checking tensioner, adjusting valves, air filter, carb check, etc. I don't think it is a wise thing to rely on noises and mileage alone to be confident in a bike, at least not one you want to keep for any length of time. I think that even if I had not taken the bolt out, it would be the wisest decision on a bike like this, to check out the tensioner. I guess there would be some exceptions, like knowing the guy pretty well that you bought the bike from, one owner, very low miles, so on and so forth. But this is not one of those times. Wish me luck! Or tell me I am insane! I've been reading up, but any other tips or tricks are sure appreciated. I like pictures, so I will be taking a bunch. |
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Title: Re: Rear Cam Chain Guide ooppsie Post by nathanhooper on 08/27/10 at 09:11:12 Besides, if I were to blow the engine, or something else, it would cost me more time and money to drive my truck and fix the bike than to just check it. Sure, the guide is probably still on, but who is to say that this is not just the grace of God pushing me into checking out the tensioner? I will be flabbergasted if I take the case off, the guide is still on, and the tensioner is hanging by a thread :o Hope I make it home from work, lol |
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Title: Re: Rear Cam Chain Guide ooppsie Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/27/10 at 10:08:48 Have you metric ruler handy & measure the tensioner |
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Title: Re: Rear Cam Chain Guide ooppsie Post by nathanhooper on 08/27/10 at 11:18:00 definitely will do. I will post my findings to that one thread that ver started. I have been spending some time printing off posts, but inevitably I am probably going to be on this weekend asking questions. I got to thinking, it would be funny if I took the cover off and there sat one of verslagens tensioner's. Hey ver, you ever sold a tensioner to southern MO or northwest AR? |
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Title: Re: Rear Cam Chain Guide ooppsie Post by nathanhooper on 08/27/10 at 11:19:59 definitely will do. I will post my findings to that one thread that ver started. I have been spending some time printing off posts, but inevitably I am probably going to be on this weekend asking questions. I got to thinking, it would be funny if I took the cover off and there sat one of verslagens tensioner's. Hey ver, you ever sold a tensioner to southern MO or northwest AR? |
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Title: Re: Rear Cam Chain Guide ooppsie Post by nathanhooper on 08/27/10 at 19:04:16 Started in on the check up. Pulled the seat first, then drained the fuel tank, took the petc0ck off, undid the spedo and put duct tape over both ends, took the tank off, took beauty covers off, took the side covers off the air intake. Going to give her a good wash tomorrow to limit the amount of dirt around the area. I have a question on the air filter. What does a stock one look like in good condition? This one seemed to be extremely dirty, but it could be the filter material color. It is very tan. I am going to clean it, but I wanted to take a picture first, but I do not have the camera with me right now. I have not done anything yet that really warrants a picture. I will be taking plenty tomorrow. It didn't take me long to come this far. 30 mins maybe? I plan on doing the valves is why I took the tank off. What would you guys consider a good reason to re-torque the head bolts? So after all of this, I was sitting on the naked bike and decided I might as well try the test justin thought of. So I unscrewed the rear guide pin, and barely backed it out till I could make out the machined surface. After doing that it all came back to me what I did on Monday night after changing the oil. Unless I am brain dead there is no way I took that pin out more than 1/2" past the threads. So I tried the test and could not come up with anything. Oh well, I had already decided to look inside anyways. I do not think it is off the guide though. I was able to "wiggle" it around and can feel it pushing/pulling on something inside the hole at every angle except when I pull upwards, or maybe it was downwards...I will check again tomorrow. But needless to say there is something "holding" to the end of it because if it were not then it would be free to move around with ease, right? I cannot see how it wouldn't. Tomorrow is going to be a good day. I will learn a lot about my bike tomorrow, and feel real good about getting my fingers dirty. Checking the tensioner, adjusting valves, and hopefully if time permits checking out the carb. Might as well since it is going to be in the open. Anyone have anything else they would do if they were into it as far as I will be tomorrow? |
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Title: Re: Rear Cam Chain Guide ooppsie Post by verslagen1 on 08/27/10 at 19:12:00 new ones are white. |
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Title: Re: Rear Cam Chain Guide ooppsie Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/27/10 at 20:13:29 Blow the dirt from around the plug b4 you pull it. Make sure theres no water down there. |
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Title: Re: Rear Cam Chain Guide ooppsie Post by nathanhooper on 08/27/10 at 20:47:58 Thanks for the info and advise. I plan on using common sense, but we all know by know that sometimes it is fleeting for me. I heard about someone doing a air box "mod" before I thought. Is this true? Is it worth doing? Something about a "plug"? Just curious. It would seem that at this point something like that would just take a little time and effort to do, with the bike apart and all. Thanks guys, you are doing a good thing... |
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Title: Re: Rear Cam Chain Guide ooppsie Post by Digger on 08/27/10 at 20:54:38 545B4E525B545255554A5F483A0 wrote:
How lucky do you feel? Some here report never re-torquing the head bolts. Others here report blowing their head gaskets. The book says to re-torque the head bolts ever 3500 miles for a low mileage bike, like yours. Your bike.....your choice. Happy wrenchin'! |
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Title: Re: Rear Cam Chain Guide ooppsie Post by verslagen1 on 08/27/10 at 21:39:23 46495C404946404747584D5A280 wrote:
Use some common sense, don't do any mod unless you know what to expect from doing it. I can guess what the mod might be, my advice is don't do it. |
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Title: Re: Rear Cam Chain Guide ooppsie Post by BurnPgh on 08/27/10 at 23:02:27 My advise is not to do any modding at the moment. It seems you're still new and flinchy about the mechanics of the machine in its stock form. Gte it running well and ride it around a while. Get to know your canvas before you start painting. As far as you're cam chain guide oppsie, if it hasnt started making funny sounds or died yet Im pretty certain you're in the clear so quit worrying about it. Just tighten that bolt and leave it alone for now. If you've got about 10k mi Id say open the right side and see what you've got going on with the tensioner no matter what. Read up on the verslavy cam chain tensioner and if you're at the point where you need one, buy one. I recommend getting one anyway just for peace of mind. In the long run its really a waste of money NOT to get one but if your bike can wait and you want to wait, by all means wait. Just check the tensioner frequently if thats the case. While you're doing that you'll be able to tell whats up with the guide. You shouldnt be able to pull it downward. It should pivot on that bolt but you shouldnt be able to move the higher end any more than the merest smidgen, if that, but I dont think you need to worry about that. As far as retorquing the head bolts, dont worry about it unless the head gasket starts to get seepy. With such low oil pressure as we have in these machines "blowing" a head gasket seems unlikely, and most "head gasket" leaks are actually the head oil plug leak (look it up and read) PS - when you do start modding ( if you dont consider the verslavy a "mod")I suggest your first one be a general rejet, or at least the white spacer mod. Most people start mods with free flow intake or exhaust and in stock form this bike is on the razors edge of too lean and way too lean. A high flow air filter or free flow exhaust will only make this issue worse and is (im convinced) why my bikes valves went to crap so early. Ineclipse is having the same issues I was having until my recent top end rebuild and wouldnt you know it he's been running an open muffler with (we assume) stock jetting. (He doesnt want to open it up and find out). Read and read and read. Its all been done. |
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Title: Re: Rear Cam Chain Guide ooppsie Post by nathanhooper on 08/28/10 at 07:25:38 Thanks once again for the info. I mention the air box "mod" because it sounded easy, lol. But I guess easy doesn't mean without consequences, huh? Seems like an exhaust mod would be easy... Very good advise. Yes I am a little flinchy, especially after reading ALL the tech docs (maybe not all, but close to it), and reading up on other posts of problems with cams, cam chain, tensioner, valves, etc. I know that it is the nature of a machine to 'wear', but if you let it get to you it will rack your nerves if you just stated riding that machine. I am seeing no oil leakage up top. I cleaned the head, up around the spark plug, this morning. There was absolutely no oil in that area around the plug or the two exposed head bolts. In fact, the only place I see any seepage is around the cam plug. But even at that it is minimal. I am not worried at minimal leakage of oil. Machines do that. I have read up on the verslavy 'mod', its a no brainer. You got any available verslagen? Price update? Discounts? Coupons? lol. Depending on what I feel like after I take the cover off the side, I had the same thought on the white spacer mod. I may feel sickened, or relived. Its hard to say, but I have it apart this far, so it shouldn't take too long or much to do the carb. Thanks to you guys for posting such detailed instructions on how to do things like this. Pretty neat. I know that one of the P.O. have done some tinkering, either them or the dealership, because the brass plug was out. It was only turned out 1 1/4 turns though. I still have to play with it, but there are good instructions for that also. I would be real curious to see if they did the white spacer mod. Other than the tensioner it seems to be the most done mod. What exactly am I going to expect after the white spacer mod? It seems kind of hard to pin down an exact opinion/outcome. I am getting a late start so off I go, will be back later this afternoon with pictures... |
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Title: Re: Rear Cam Chain Guide ooppsie Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/28/10 at 09:16:02 Firts thing, get it running. Then, one thing at a time, do any mods you decide you really want to do. Dont go tinkering in more than one place at a time, cuz then if it wont start or doesnt run right, you wont know where to go look. |
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Title: Re: Rear Cam Chain Guide ooppsie Post by verslagen1 on 08/28/10 at 09:37:47 202F3A262F202621213E2B3C4E0 wrote:
yes |
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Title: Re: Rear Cam Chain Guide ooppsie Post by nathanhooper on 08/28/10 at 10:08:48 Well that was not too bad. Don't know why I was apprehensive about it. All looks well. Broke one of the rear muffler studs off. Good thing I got a welder handy. Looks like I will be doing the valves in a little bit. http://lh4.ggpht.com/_KpdwiIQLnZ8/THk6oGf67DI/AAAAAAAAADc/TJOB2kK5f-k/s800/DSCN0401.JPGShe looks good even naked huh. My oldest boy likes to park his bike next to mine, and my littlest is not far behind him. I could tell that it had been gotten into before, which made me feel better than no one ever looking at it. I was highly disapointed that there was not a verslvy in there though :). I started taking the oil filter off per instructions but then stoped because the less loose parts floating around the better right now. So I took the exaust off, broke the stud, but it came off good none the less. I took some pictures inside the exauhst hole, they show the valves in there. They look very white, not sure if that is bad. I know they are under a lot of heat. http://lh3.ggpht.com/_KpdwiIQLnZ8/THk67BXl-jI/AAAAAAAAADg/hyOlzPPzCxU/s800/DSCN0416.JPG Here is a pic of what I saw when I opened it up http://lh4.ggpht.com/_KpdwiIQLnZ8/THk7YqU8nsI/AAAAAAAAADs/1ra_tzdsJOI/s800/DSCN0424.JPG Any guesses on the distance? http://lh3.ggpht.com/_KpdwiIQLnZ8/THk7F8xGcqI/AAAAAAAAADk/-Qyb5JEjEoM/s800/DSCN0423.JPG The answer is coming up. I tried "wiggling" the guide, doesn't move more than an mm or two. When I unscrew the top pin and wiggle it, the guide moves in conjuncture with the pin movement. I am going to say that everything is ok with that aspect? Here is a picture of the front guide. Is this normal? http://lh6.ggpht.com/_KpdwiIQLnZ8/THk72XbPKsI/AAAAAAAAAEA/06VHH5k8Oxg/s800/DSCN0439.JPG I also had a question on the surfaces of the clutch and cover. http://lh4.ggpht.com/_KpdwiIQLnZ8/THk7spfE-kI/AAAAAAAAAD4/CzDPDP2K4ds/s800/DSCN0438.JPG http://lh5.ggpht.com/_KpdwiIQLnZ8/THk7TLYLjLI/AAAAAAAAADo/gvgBZ9xkVJo/s800/DSCN0433.JPG Are they rubbing? Well there it is. If anyone would care to comment on what they see I would appriciate it. I don't have much of an idea of what else I could be looking for while inside there. Here are my thoughts, I am good with regards to the top pivot point on the rear guide, ooppsie avoided. The tensioner is intact, but it is going to have to be replaced, (guessed the measurement yet?). Chain looks alright, should I check it somehow? I think I read about undoing the tensioner and at least seeing if you have any stiff links. I think I am alright, but I am always open for opinions. The inside looks very dirty, I am going to go on an oil changing spree for a while. I changed the oil just this last monday, rode less than 200 miles and it is already pretty dirty. Well here is the pic we have all been waiting for, not really all of us, mainly just the ones that care about this stuff. http://lh3.ggpht.com/_KpdwiIQLnZ8/THk7eC9NMWI/AAAAAAAAADw/EfMAl75V4mo/s800/DSCN0426.JPG Good timing huh? Looks like it needs some work done. Heres the issue. I use this bike for daily commute. I am confident in my welding capabilities so I am thinking I will do a tab mod to the adjuster. That will give me piece of mind and enough time to get one from verslagen. Bad idea? If you want, not saying you have too, but if you want verslagen you can give me the specs for the tab. That way when I replace it with yours, and send mine to you, it will have the tab. Not sure if that is even something you want, but I thought I would throw it out there. I would like to do the weld on mod just for now anyways, at 19mm I know I am not out all the way, but I would feel a whole lot better about ridding it if the mm#'s were smaller. |
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Title: Re: Rear Cam Chain Guide ooppsie Post by nathanhooper on 08/28/10 at 10:22:31 I know it is said that Suzuki specs are when it reaches 19mm it should be replaced, right? I was just looking in my manual and it states "Suzuki does not provide any service specifications for the tensioner adjuster. If any part of the tensioner adjuster body or rack are worn or damaged, replace the entire assembly." So where do we get the information we have on the 19mm? Not trying to discredit anyone, just curious. Facts are facts and the fact is that it is at the limits of its life on my bike. |
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Title: Re: Rear Cam Chain Guide ooppsie Post by verslagen1 on 08/28/10 at 13:18:14 when the tensioner reaches 19mm, it's the chain that needs replacing. and if you do it now, there'll be no damage to the tensioner and you can still use it. but here's the kicker... measure the chain stretch and you'll see you're still well within spec. which is why the "slavy" was created, to get all the life out of the chain. At 22mm, you have to replace the chain, so you got 3mm to do something. about a 1000 miles per mm, give or take 3mm's. ;D |
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Title: Re: Rear Cam Chain Guide ooppsie Post by nathanhooper on 08/28/10 at 15:18:43 Back in from doing the valves...what a chore that is. Drives me nuts, almost half way worth taking the engine out of the frame. They were a little loose, only by a thous or so, tightend them down on .004" and .003" slips right in while .005" doesnt enter much at all. So, let me try to understand this correctly. In around or bout 1000-3000 miles(using the good or the bad method of calculation ;D), I am going to need to replace the cam chain? So, when using the verslavy you need to keep track of the distance you start with and then when you reach what would have been 23mm with the old one, it is time to check and replace the chain? I have read some posts that guys will let it go all the way out, then switch to the second hole and stretch it some more. So is that a take your chance thing? Or is it been proven that at stock tensioner max travel, you have another x amount of travel that you can go? I know I am asking a lot of questions here, just trying to understand a little more is all. I guess I am missing something or its just going straight over my head from just reading old posts. So what are the other thoughts on the other questions I had, pictures I took? I got the carb off, figured I would do it seeing how I had the time, glad I did because it was dirty. I will post pics of what it looked like when I first took it off. I am sure this bike is going to run a whole lot different when I put it all back together. The inside of the carb was pretty thick in dirt, which is inline with the fact that the air filter was caked with dirt. I am going to have to get a new one of those. I took the carb apart with some persuasion, no spacer mod has been done to it yet, I am going to read up on it and decide whether or not to go ahead with it. Someone can chime in with a more recent update of their thougts on it if they want :). |
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Title: Re: Rear Cam Chain Guide ooppsie Post by nathanhooper on 08/28/10 at 15:41:30 I think I understand the spacer mod more now. Not completely, because I have not done it and then rode with it. But I think the wisest thing to do is replace with washers that way I can go back to stock if it doesn't like it. If only I had a verslavy at hand...I would be cruising the back roads tomorrow eating bugs. Nahh...who am I kidding I am just a newb that doesn't know what its like to be a real biker...lol. I like the bike, really I do, and I am so glad I did all of this today. I feel a lot better about my machine and look forward to many more years of pleasure and use out of it. I am still curious on the issue with the chain and adjuster though. |
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Title: Re: Rear Cam Chain Guide ooppsie Post by verslagen1 on 08/28/10 at 16:12:59 0E011408010E080F0F100512600 wrote:
you have 1 to 3k miles to go before your stock tensioner falls apart. if you don't weld a tab on it, or get a verslavy, you need to replace your chain. if you take your chain out right now, it will be stretched half of the max allowed. |
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Title: Re: Rear Cam Chain Guide ooppsie Post by Oldfeller on 08/28/10 at 16:49:12 http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/bit_trick.JPG Get one of these (or weld up and drill your old one) and install it ASAP. Quit worrying about your chain --- your old cam chain has LOTS and LOTS of life left in it. Your chain isn't your pressing issue, not by a long long shot. Don't wait too durn long to Slavvy it as you are only 1-2mm away from a "spit the spring into the running gears" crunch event. If you scragg out your bike by being slack now you'll never forgive yourself. Get/make yourself a Slavvy unit (or a Verslavvy if you decide to get his improved version) and put that sucker in place ASAP. |
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Title: Re: Rear Cam Chain Guide ooppsie Post by ralfyguy on 08/28/10 at 16:49:36 Well if you look real close at the adjuster, you can see it's not sticking out quiet straight anymore. It's pointing up slightly. So it already starts trying to wiggle out the hole in the body. At this point it's sticking out about almost 80% of it's total length. This thing is getting ready to pop. It wouldn't last a whole lot longer. At this point it isn't worth it to close it back up without getting anything done. It would be a gamble. If you rely on the bike as your only form of transportation, it'll be a disaster to you soon. I have seen them sticking out 21mm, but they also pretty much destroyed the hole in the body at that point. Mine had the same exact amount of extension and I replaced it on the spot. Motor runs like new since. I would advise you to not ride it anymore like that. It could hold up for awhile, it could also pop out a few more mm at once, when the ratchet decides to give a little more. I would call it too risky. |
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Title: Re: Rear Cam Chain Guide ooppsie Post by nathanhooper on 08/28/10 at 20:09:12 oh yea, I am definitely doing something with it. I just thought that verslagen was alluding to the idea that I was going to have to replace my cam chain when it gets out to the stock 23mm. I was just being confused in my head and wanted to set the record straight. It is funny how things happen. If someone does not believe that EVERY thing happens for a reason then they are sadly mistaken. If I would not have had that blonde moment that caused the potential ooppsie then I would still be riding the bike right now. I had no intentions of looking inside until this fall/winter. It had 8500 miles when I got it and it seemed as though the consensus was that at around 10,000 mile it is a wise idea to check things out regardless. I am at over 9000 miles now, and figured I would wait till I was not riding as much in the fall/winter(its hard to carry a stick and string on the back of a bike). By then I would have put on another 1000 miles or so. Would I have had the spring in the running gears moment? Who knows. It definitely looks like it could have ratcheted out another couple in that time. We will never know because it will be fixed before I ride again. I consider myself as being one that gets watched over a lot, I don't plan on pushing things too far. Here is where I would agree with others that I found while trying to diagnose my situation, and it wouldn't be a bad thing to always tell new comers to do, and that is to just look at the darn adjuster if you get a used bike. It seriously did not take that long to do. Maybe 1 1/2 hours tops? I have no idea why I toyed with the idea so long. I am hoping that I can pick up some money quickly so I can go ahead with the verslavvy. I think for now I will go ahead and weld a tab on and drill it. Being a soul provider for a wife and three kids these days takes a lot from a guy, thats the reason I had to settle for the s40 instead of the harley...JUST KIDDING!!! That was just too much of an opportune moment to waste. I am adapt at welding, but not milling and I like the idea that verslagen came up with. I finished up the night with a complete clean and white spacer mod. I went down to .075, 2/3 of what it was. That carb was dirty dirty. I was spraying carb cleaner in holes and brown/black stuff would pour out the other side. I am really surprised it ran as well as it did. Just a testament to the simplicity of these machines, I am starting to really like it. But anytime you get your hands dirty with someone you are bound to get attached. |
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Title: Re: Rear Cam Chain Guide ooppsie Post by Digger on 08/28/10 at 20:12:25 4374736F516669010 wrote:
Just for the record, there appears to be some confusion regarding a head cover leak and a head gasket leak. I believe Burn was addressing a head cover leak. This refers to an oil leak at the head/head cover interface. There is no gasket here and oil leaks there are common (but eminently preventable, IMHO). A head gasket leak, on the other hand, refers to a leak in the gasket between the cylinder and the head. A blown head gasket on this machine may or may not leak oil. Head gaskets are generally never blown due to oil pressure. It is combustion pressure that generally does them in. Clear as mud? |
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Title: Re: Rear Cam Chain Guide ooppsie Post by Digger on 08/28/10 at 20:16:48 5D52475B525D5B5C5C435641330 wrote:
http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1183865819/1#1 |
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Title: Re: Rear Cam Chain Guide ooppsie Post by verslagen1 on 08/28/10 at 20:24:09 1A3739393B2C5E0 wrote:
http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1183865819/1#1[/quote] Oh, much further back than that. But, the 18mm comes the german forum. otherwise it'd be in inches. ;D |
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Title: Re: Rear Cam Chain Guide ooppsie Post by nathanhooper on 08/30/10 at 07:09:38 Well I pulled the tensioner off last night. I think I bent the circlip, unless it is supposed to look like this? http://lh5.ggpht.com/_KpdwiIQLnZ8/THsRnYZMhVI/AAAAAAAAAEQ/oQDPyItHQec/s400/DSCN0481.JPG The tensioner body looks well enough, I think I caught it before it could get too wollerd out. http://lh3.ggpht.com/_KpdwiIQLnZ8/THsVOvcN75I/AAAAAAAAAFM/gIhcjVZQ4dA/s800/DSCN0493.JPG Here is a thought though on maybe another solution to the mod on the tensioner. There is a .026" difference in height on the tensioner 'piston'. The difference is between the height of the groove ridges and the overall piston diameter. http://lh6.ggpht.com/_KpdwiIQLnZ8/THu2k7MTD0I/AAAAAAAAAGE/_9z_MpkGGCQ/s800/Tensioner%20piston.jpg Rough drawing, I had a little fun with 'paint' this morning, I forgot the picture of the piston at home. But I think you can get the idea from this drawing. So the ratcheting device on the tensioner comes back this far when it is moving over the normal 'groves'...it was hard to get a picture of the exact moment the ratchet reaches the top of the ridge on the groove, but after a couple of tries I was able to capture it. http://lh5.ggpht.com/_KpdwiIQLnZ8/THsVK7HiCPI/AAAAAAAAAFI/_vfpwx_wNVY/s800/DSCN0488.JPG Here is a picture of when it is sitting inside the grooves. http://lh4.ggpht.com/_KpdwiIQLnZ8/THsULFZMu7I/AAAAAAAAAFA/kuoedOnPdv4/s800/DSCN0489.JPG And this far when the piston has reached the end of normal travel and is capable of coming out. http://lh6.ggpht.com/_KpdwiIQLnZ8/THsWvroER0I/AAAAAAAAAFw/cO1zElxgEBQ/s800/90.jpg I did not measure that difference in distance, but I am going to assume that it is .026". So my thoughts are if someone could put a "pin" of some sort in there allowing the ratchet device to only come back to the point of allowing travel over the 'groves' and not allowing it to come back to the point of allowing the piston to come out. I tried it with sticking a small screwdriver tip behind the ratchet and it did not allow the piston to come out. Now I know that this is a lot more tedious machining than cutting a slot and drilling the piston for a pin, but I just thought I would share my idea and see if anyone has thoughts on it. Maybe drilling and taping a set screw that could be adjusted? |
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Title: Re: Rear Cam Chain Guide ooppsie Post by verslagen1 on 08/30/10 at 07:36:44 it's been done. |
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Title: Re: Rear Cam Chain Guide ooppsie Post by nathanhooper on 08/30/10 at 07:41:46 Good, bad? I got too looking, and what if you came in from the opposite side of the hole the spring for the ratchet sits in. Then what you are in essence doing is using the spring as a stop itself. Downsides to doing this? I am NOT a engineer, so I cannot say I have the foresight to see the relationship of machined surfaces and how they interact with each other. |
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Title: Re: Rear Cam Chain Guide ooppsie Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/30/10 at 09:17:50 I drilled a hole & ran a tiny wire thru to keep the tensioner from coming apart. Otehrs have a pin, looks very professional. |
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Title: Re: Rear Cam Chain Guide ooppsie Post by BurnPgh on 08/30/10 at 21:45:32 4275726E506768000 wrote:
Nope. I meant the head gasket. I've pretty much resigned myself to a seepy head cover. Not bad. Just a bit right above the spark plug. I have, however, never had my head gasket seep or leak. The head cover could be head cover bolts not being tight enough or crappy rtv seal but if the head gaskets leaking there not much else it could be but loose head bolts or a worn gasket. But again, though a gasket may be worn (maybe the PO reused it after a disassembly) I don't know that it could "blow" and leak profusely with such low oil prssure as our bike has. Leak, yes, seep....count on it...blow? Eh... |
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Title: Re: Rear Cam Chain Guide ooppsie Post by nathanhooper on 08/31/10 at 06:16:17 Well...I did the mod. Welded on a tab, drilled two small holes and stuck a cotter pin through them for a stop. It works, but I am highly disapointed in myself. I will be saving my pennies for a Verslavy. Seeing how I bent the circlip, I tried to bend it back, and did, but they figured that it was not the wisest idea to use it and went to get a new one. I am going to go out on a limb here, but I think that just about everything on this bike is metric, even the circlips? I found one that seems to work, I mean It fits tight, but can one fit too tight? If that makes any sense. I am going to another store to look for different ones, maybe the harbor has some, they get things from metric speaking countries. I am highly disappointed in myself that I am not getting to ride it yet. I had so much apart that it is going to be tonight before its all back together. I am sad when I see all the other guys riding their bikes around wishing I could too. But I know that this is stuff that needed to be done so that the rest of the ridding days this year will be worry free. Once I get it back together I will let you guys know the outcome, might even make a video for fun. Thanks again guys for your patience with me. You do a good thing helping out like you do. |
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Title: Re: Rear Cam Chain Guide ooppsie Post by verslagen1 on 08/31/10 at 11:29:40 I bought extra last time I bought, $1 apiece, can slip it into an envelope for a $1.50 But, I'd go into a local bearing shop, they should have them for less than that. |
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Title: Re: Rear Cam Chain Guide ooppsie Post by nathanhooper on 09/01/10 at 11:24:59 what size is the clip in mm? |
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Title: Re: Rear Cam Chain Guide ooppsie Post by verslagen1 on 09/01/10 at 11:28:57 the shaft it attached to unscrews, remove it and take it with you. |
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Title: Re: Rear Cam Chain Guide ooppsie Post by nathanhooper on 09/01/10 at 11:40:30 Ok, I know that this sounds bad, but I have to ask it anyways. What is the harm in using a standard size circlip instead of the metric? It fits, and if I didn't know better I would say its the right size, except I noticed that the ends didn't quite come together as they did on the original circlip. |
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Title: Re: Rear Cam Chain Guide ooppsie Post by verslagen1 on 09/01/10 at 11:58:48 There are no real end loads, it just there to keep it off the cover. spit and bailing wire will hold it in place. |
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Title: Re: Rear Cam Chain Guide ooppsie Post by nathanhooper on 09/01/10 at 12:11:09 I figured, but I went ahead and took the bailing wire off and used the standard sized circlip instead ;D Maybe if you still have some, when I get the money together to buy your mod, I'll go ahead and buy one of those fancy right sized clips from you too. |
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Title: Re: Rear Cam Chain Guide ooppsie Post by nathanhooper on 09/01/10 at 12:12:12 Oh, and just in case anyone was wondering, had school last night so I didnt get to work on the bike at all. I will get to for a while after I get home tonight, I am hoping that I can get it ready for tomorrows commute. |
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Title: Re: Rear Cam Chain Guide ooppsie Post by BurnPgh on 09/01/10 at 21:49:39 I believe the size of the circlip is 6mm but it's been a while since I've gone messing about. I just got one at the NAPA down the street. 6 cents. The guy didnt even feel like ringing it up so I just walked out and went home. |
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Title: Re: Rear Cam Chain Guide ooppsie Post by nathanhooper on 09/02/10 at 04:46:36 So you just took your old one in? I have the bike buttoned up most of the way now so I don't know if I would take it back apart to change that one circlip. But I will try the local napa, never thought of them. I was under the impression that it was 8mm. If it is 6 then there is a fasteners place here in town. Maybe this will also help someone else in the future when they go looking for one Or they could just take the time to take it off without bending it... :-? |
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Title: Re: Rear Cam Chain Guide ooppsie Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/02/10 at 05:43:28 While removal w/o loss or damage is the goal, its not one we always manage. When I goober up or lose a part that Im sure Ill be touching again & it doesnt cost a lot, I get a spare, or 2, just to have. |
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Title: Re: Rear Cam Chain Guide ooppsie Post by nathanhooper on 09/02/10 at 18:18:01 Well this chapter is closed, hopefully. I got it all back together, and after the fact realized that I had left the spark plug wire off... >:(. Off with the seat, off with the tank... Got it all back together AGAIN and fired it up. Ran real smooth. A lot quieter. I attribute most of that to the valve job because that is where most of the noise was coming from in the beginning. I went for a ride to make sure nothing was going to go wrong before I took off on my way to work in the morning. The white spacer mod helped out with the backfires, either that or the dang carb was so dirty that it was leaning the mixture out. I am going to have to mess around with the mixture screw again. I got back and noticed an occasional "knock". My hypochondriac self also heard some chain noise, but I think that is a figment of my imagination. It does seem like there is a lot of noise coming from the front/front left side of the block. It was there before, but hard to pin down because of the valve noise. The knock, however, seems to come from the right hand side, just below/front of the oil filter. It was hard to pin down, and I will do some more listening tomorrow, but I found it by sticking a screwdriver in between the oil filter cover and exhaust pipe. I am really not too concerned, at this point I just want to ride, its amazing how much you miss it when you cannot do it. Its different when you just don't have the time or something. Any clues what this engine noise is? Could it be coming from that one bearing/shaft that is just to the right of the cam chain? That would make sense why I hear the noise on the other side also and in the front. I am going to look over my engine diagram to try and see what it could be. Just thought I would let you guys know you are great. You were a big help to me through this, and eventually when I get back in there to put in the verslavly. Next chapter is probably going to be cam chain replacement, hopefully not anything worse. Thanks again. |
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Title: Re: Rear Cam Chain Guide ooppsie Post by nathanhooper on 09/02/10 at 18:27:11 Just checked my manual. Balancer assembly. I would assume that this would make some noise given the nature of the beast, how much is too much? |
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Title: Re: Rear Cam Chain Guide ooppsie Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/02/10 at 21:39:23 636C79656C636562627D687F0D0 wrote:
IDK exactly at what point it is "too much", but Phellonius has experience with that. He can splain it for ya. |
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Title: Re: Rear Cam Chain Guide ooppsie Post by nathanhooper on 09/03/10 at 06:51:13 Yea, I have read about his "experience". I have no desires for that kind of knowledge, lol. I don't think its that bad, I might be wrong, but it ran pretty smooth to work today. I am thinking that if it gets bad enough to where something is going to go wrong it will start to tell me louder and louder. If I am not mistaken, Phellonius came on sudden, but it was because of a mechanical malfunction of an add on part. I am pretty sure everything I have is stock. But hey, if I am running down the road and it busts through my engine and I run over it then oh well. I can either use the bike, or not. |
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Title: Re: Rear Cam Chain Guide ooppsie Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/03/10 at 08:30:50 Youve got a great attitude about it all, I think. At some point, ya just gotta accept that its a machine. Its gonna live or its not & we, as owners & caretakers, can only do so much to keep them alive w/o just being anal about it. Do what is sposed to get done, pay attention to what its tellin ya & somehow, keep away from just being paranoid, like a new mom, jumping at every move her baby makes. |
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