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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Cracked it open... /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1282535399 Message started by EJID on 08/22/10 at 20:49:59 |
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Title: Cracked it open... Post by EJID on 08/22/10 at 20:49:59 Well, calling myself a shadetree mechanic might be a stretch, but I have tried doing most of the maintenance items myself so far. Over the weekend I thought I would do a few other tasks to the bike that I haven't yet covered. 1. Lube the cables...did the baggie trick with the heaviest weight oil I had on hand and successfully made a mess all over the garage floor :D but I did get them lubed and they do feel like they move smoother. 2. Check the valve clearance...OMG! what was I thinking...even though I followed the tutorial in the tech section and had the Clymer's open for additional reference I think I found TDC on the compression stroke, but according to the Clymer's there should have been some play on each of the rockers. I could barely move the exhaust side of them and never did feel any play on the intake side. After spending over an hour trying to determine if I could even get it to TDC I finally gave up and decided it's not making too much noise and runs great, so I will button it back up and hope for the best. 3. When I took the tank off to check the valves I noticed a crack in the vac line to the carb, so I replaced it with a new line. 4. I had been wanting to add a clear fuel filter and fuel line so off to the store I went. Found the line no problem but could not find a filter that matched the 5/16" line :( After looking for quite a while I opted for one with 1/4" inputs & the screw type hose clamps to cover the difference...BAD IDEA!!! After getting it hooked up, switched the petcock to prime and it flowed right out and around the new filter leaking everywhere. Good thing I bought extra fuel line, I put in a straight shot of clear fuel line and it worked great, but I will still have to find a small filter that fits... 5. Put it all back together and run it around the block a couple of times, where it was running beautifully!!! Get back and start cleaning up and putting away the tools and I found a small rubber bumper type cushion sitting on the floor!? Where did that little bugger come from? My guess is that it was from under the tank, possibly under the "beauty" covers. Anybody have any suggestions, I don't really want to take it all back apart if I don't need to. The rubber plug is 1/2" in diameter, and about 1/4" thick. One side is hollow like it goes on a screw or bolt and the other side looks like it has a slight depression from something square pushing on it. Any suggestions would be appreciated. :-/ |
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Title: Re: Cracked it open... Post by ralfyguy on 08/22/10 at 20:56:02 It IS from one of the "Beauty Covers" |
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Title: Re: Cracked it open... Post by EJID on 08/22/10 at 20:58:45 71626F657A64767A030 wrote:
I put the covers back on, is it going to hurt to leave the bumper out? |
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Title: Re: Cracked it open... Post by verslagen1 on 08/22/10 at 21:39:33 may rattle, may wear the finish, up to you. |
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Title: Re: Cracked it open... Post by Boule’tard on 08/23/10 at 09:50:55 Man I would not leave the intake valves tight (if indeed they are). Next time you get enough gumption to look into your valve clearance, try checking the exhaust valves when the intake valves are closing, and check the intake valves when the exhaust valves are opening. There should be a slight wiggle on the respective rocker arms on those parts of the cycle. That works for all 4-stroke engines, and can get you out of a bind when it is hard to set the engine on TDC of compression stroke. |
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Title: Re: Cracked it open... Post by verslagen1 on 08/23/10 at 11:27:06 boule, give the guy a break. he opened it up, look at it, wasn't seeing what he should, and backed off. good for him, he's here asking questions. next time he'll try again and maybe get it right or will come back with more questions. irritating as hell, but good for him, he's trying. EJID, please note that clymers tells you to turn the crank the wrong way. To find the right TDC is simple, take off the valve covers, take off the timing port cover, turn the crank in the same direction the wheels rotate forward, watch the intake valves, they'll go down then up, then watch for the mark to come around on the crank, when it matches up with the mark on the cover (about a half turn), stop and adjust your valves. Now getrdone. ;D |
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Title: Re: Cracked it open... Post by Boule’tard on 08/23/10 at 12:09:14 Right, just trying to give 'em an alternative way to check the valves, since he had trouble verifying TDC.. if he finds no play in the rocker arm by either method, then at least one intake valve is too tight. |
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Title: Re: Cracked it open... Post by EJID on 08/23/10 at 15:54:54 Boule' I actually think I bought your old Clymer manual where you had already noted to turn the crank CCW, but thanks for pointing that out again. I was turning it CCW. Vers I used your tech description to try this time as well. I don't have an offset wrench so I was using a socket to turn the crank. With the spark plug out every time I turned it, it tended to turn right past the mark on the case that you mention. I tried putting the plug back in and doing it again, where I was able to stop at the timing mark, but still did not feel like I could get any movement out of the intake valves (closest to the front wheel) so maybe they are adjusted too tight. I will dive back in again, but I might have a second person there to offer a second opinion. Last thing I want to do is adjust something the wrong way :o Thanks for all the advice though guys!!! |
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Title: Re: Cracked it open... Post by Boule’tard on 08/23/10 at 16:05:02 545B5855110 wrote:
Actually Verslagen gave the reminder, but that is hilarious you found it in my handwritten notes as well.. which I probably first heard from Verslagen ;D It is sort of a pain to get the crank to stop exactly on the mark.. a breaker bar holds the socket still way better than a ratchet, that's for sure. Also, it is the exhaust valves closest to the front wheel, intake's on the aft side of the cylinder. Good luck and get 'er done ;) actually I think the valves will be fine a few hundred miles or until you feel like wrenching again. |
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Title: Re: Cracked it open... Post by Oldfeller on 08/23/10 at 16:05:05 The rotation motion you are describing is powered or driven by the valve springs being under tension feeding back through the cam chain to the crank. You have not found the correct top dead center. You are not even close if you have "roll over" going on while you are looking at the marks. First, you weren't turning in the right direction -- that screwed you up totally. Second, you gotta watch the valves open and shut -- watch them rocker arms -- when the intakes go down and come back up again the crank rolling over action stops and that also means you are approaching the correct alignment of the marks. NOW you get a plastic soda straw and stick it into the spark plug hole. Watch the straw go up and the marks come around to align up again. Both sets of rocker arms should not move during this final alignment partial rotation. Both sets should be able to be moved side to side slightly (or up and down if you have some valve clearance at this stage). In other words the rockers are NOT UNDER SPRING TENSION when you are on the compression stroke. And you got nothing trying to make the crank roll over either. |
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Title: Re: Cracked it open... Post by EJID on 08/23/10 at 16:10:48 766572736C6167656E31000 wrote:
I was watching the valves closest to the front tire while doing this and if those are the exhaust valves instead I'm glad I didn't mess with it. You guys know this machine inside out and that's why I'm asking questions before I mess something up. Now I know to watch the valves closest to the seat while doing this. OF I was turning the crank the same direction as the tires turn (at least when I ride it they go that way :D) I did use the plastic straw as well, but I was focusing too much on the wrong valves. I will give it another try and see what comes of it. Thanks again guys!!! |
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Title: Re: Cracked it open... Post by Digger on 08/23/10 at 20:07:52 Copied from another post: Everything in this procedure references my bike (see signature). The engine is supposed to be rotated to Top Dead Center (TDC) on the compression stroke to perform numerous procedures, including, but not limited to, setting the valve clearance, removing the head cover, and adjusting the free play in the automatic de-compression cable. The problem is that there are two different TDC's on a four stroke engine. One occurs on the compression stroke and one occurs on the exhaust stroke. To find the one you want (the one on the compression stroke), remove the valve timing inspection plug. I use this tool to remove this plug, the middle sized bit works great: Motion Pro Timing Plug Tool (http://www.motionpro.com/motorcycle/partno/08-0087/) Now you've exposed the flanged nut on the port side of the crankshaft. On my bike, this nut takes a 17mm socket. Rotate this nut counter-clockwise (trust me, not Clymer) until the index marks on the nut lines up with the index mark (notch) in the valve timing inspection hole: http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee201/Digger109/TDC-IndexMarksE.jpg Now, you've got to determine if you are at TDC on the compression stroke (YAY!) or if you are at TDC on the exhaust stroke (BOO, HISS!). If you've got at least one of the valve inspection caps off, just try to jiggle the rocker arms with your fingers. If there is some play present, you are on the compression stroke, where you want to be. If they are all tight, with no play, you are on the exhaust stroke. In this case, you will need to rotate the crankshaft nut counter-clockwise through another full rotation and line the index marks up again. Then, you should be on the compression stroke, but perform the above check just to be sure. NOTE: The possibility exists that the valve lash is set too tight and you will not be able to detect any rocker arm movement, regardless of the position of the crankshaft. This is but one reason I prefer the following method when finding TDC of the compression stroke. If you don't have at least one of the valve inspection caps off, you will need to make note of the position of the decompression valve lever when you rotate it counter-clockwise against the stop. You will be able to rotate if farther at TDC on the exhaust stroke than you can when at TDC on the compression stroke. You may need to rotate the crankshaft a few times to get a feel for this. Here are some pics illustrating what I am talking about: Here is how far I could rotate the decompression valve lever counter-clockwise when I was at TDC on the compression stroke: http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee201/Digger109/TDC-CompE.jpg And, here is how far I could rotate the decompression valve lever counter-clockwise when I was at TDC on the exhaust stroke: http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee201/Digger109/TDC-ExE.jpg When I am finally where I want to be (i.e. TDC on the compression stroke, I just put some clear tape over the valve timing inspection hole to keep dirt out. That way, I can look every now and again and reassure myself that I'm still at TDC: http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee201/Digger109/TapeonTimingHoleE.jpg IHTH someone! |
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Title: Re: Cracked it open... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/24/10 at 05:07:58 505F5C51150 wrote:
I was watching the valves closest to the front tire while doing this and if those are the exhaust valves instead I'm glad I didn't mess with it. You guys know this machine inside out and that's why I'm asking questions before I mess something up. Now I know to watch the valves closest to the seat while doing this. OF I was turning the crank the same direction as the tires turn (at least when I ride it they go that way :D) I did use the plastic straw as well, but I was focusing too much on the wrong valves. I will give it another try and see what comes of it. Thanks again guys!!![/quote] I was watching the valves closest to the front tire while doing this and if those are the exhaust valves instead I'm glad I didn't mess with it. The valves closer to the front tire are also Pritteee close to the IGZAUST PIPE,,, ( Please note,,, thats one O them HINT things youve heard about) Now, when theyre finished with their Open/Close cycle, the tired old, used up stuff has been shoved outta the engine & the intake valves will be open while the piston goes down. |
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Title: Re: Cracked it open... Post by EJID on 09/11/10 at 20:07:53 So the whole TDC thing has been on my mind ever since I opened it up last time, but this time I was determined to get it right and find out exactly where I am on my tolerances. After a couple tries and watching closely and jiggling the rockers I believe (99%) that I found the right TDC. Tried getting the feeler gauges in and that is quite a contortionist act :o but I was success full :) Both intake valves (closest to the carb) measured a snug .003" Sitting on the bike looking forward the exhaust valve on the right front also measured a snug .003" but the one on the left measured a snug .005" Since they are all in spec I think I will just put it back together and not worry about it for a while. Next maintenance task will be to take off the side cover to check the cam chain tensioner. I've got a little over 6k on it right now, so I "should" be ok and I think I will wait until winter to tackle that one. Thanks again for everyone's advice to get me on the right track, this forum is awesome!!!! |
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Title: Re: Cracked it open... Post by Digger on 10/17/10 at 20:58:12 242B2825610 wrote:
It's not worth going back in there, but for future reference..... I think, for this valve train architecture, that it's good practice to make both tolerances the same on a pair of valves. I actually insert feeler gauges into both valves at the same time and adjust until they match each other. JMTCW! |
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Title: Re: Cracked it open... Post by Trippah on 10/18/10 at 09:14:25 and you are doing these clearence checks with the engine stone cold, si? :-X |
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