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Message started by sillydilly on 08/19/10 at 00:14:51

Title: Engine Ticking + Harsh shifting?
Post by sillydilly on 08/19/10 at 00:14:51

hey guys. I recently bought a 1996 LS650 Savage and its a great bike.

however, I've noticed a progressively louder ticking (last 1500km) and I hate to say it sounds like valved. It usually only happens at a certain RPM, somewhere in the lower-midrange. Has anyone had this problem and can help diagnose?

Shifting is another problem for me. Shifting from neutral into 1st is a very rough sound and I normally have to very slowly move the bike forward while shifting to have a smooth shift. Its also VERY clunky when downshifting from 2nd to 1st. I also have a hard time going from 4th to 5th, and it seems like 5th is hardly there because I dont notice much difference.

any advice?

Title: Re: Engine Ticking + Harsh shifting?
Post by Routy on 08/19/10 at 04:35:26

I don't know this engine all that well yet, but when the engine experts wake up and read this, they will want to know the miliage on the engine first of all.

When were the valves adjusted last ?

The rough shifting into 1st sounds like too much slack (freeplay) in the clutch cable adjustment.

There is only a few RPM difference tween 4th & 5th kinda like an overdrive. When up shifting, if you hold upward pressure on the gear shifter untill the clutch is fully engaged, can make for more positive shifting. It is at times the "nature of the beast"

PS..........
Welcome to the forum,.....you are for sure in the right place.
Be aware,....there are several here that when it comes to these bikes, think they know it all, and they do ! :o

Title: Re: Engine Ticking + Harsh shifting?
Post by 12Bravo on 08/19/10 at 05:58:06

That is the nature of the beast with these bikes. Mine has been that way from day one as far as shifting. My engine will tick louder if it is a little low on oil, at the bottom of sight glass compared to the top fill line. It will also tick if the oil is old/needing changed. Old oil can also make it harder to shift. I would change the oil and do a good tune up on your bike. The valves should sound like a sewing machine, a nice ticking sound that isn't too loud.

Title: Re: Engine Ticking + Harsh shifting?
Post by verslagen1 on 08/19/10 at 07:22:13

All good advice, get you valves adjusted.
Be sure to check the cam chain threads well before you hit 20,000 miles.

Title: Re: Engine Ticking + Harsh shifting?
Post by cursal on 08/19/10 at 07:24:40

My ticking noise turned out to be my cam-chain, cam adjuster, and cam-chain-tensioner.

Happened around 15,000 miles.

Got the Verslavy adjuster here on the forum.

Title: Re: Engine Ticking + Harsh shifting?
Post by sillydilly on 08/19/10 at 11:48:56

Thanks guys. I JUST ran over 10,000km which is like 6,000 miles.

as fas as ownership I've never changed the oil. I intend on doing it today. Im going to use SeaFoam in the tank + crankcase, ride around for a bit, then drain oil and replace with 1:1 Lucas oil stabilizer + 20w/50oil to see if it smoothens things up.

Really don't want to get into valve adjustment and cam chain stuff..

Title: Re: Engine Ticking + Harsh shifting?
Post by verslagen1 on 08/19/10 at 11:58:42

33292C2C3924292C2C39400 wrote:

Thanks guys. I JUST ran over 10,000km which is like 6,000 miles.

Don't be a silly, get your valves adjusted.

Title: Re: Engine Ticking + Harsh shifting?
Post by Oldfeller on 08/19/10 at 15:35:39

sillydilly,

Ya gots you a mild case of Bill's disease -- which is an irrational reluctance to work on your bike when it needs it.

Working on your own bike is immensely satisfying as this one is VERY easy to work on and take care of.

We gots us wimmen and disabled old men on this list who work on these Savage engines and they get a lot of personal gratification out of fixing 'er up themselves.

Because, by golly -- they can !!

.... and so can you.

Title: Re: Engine Ticking + Harsh shifting?
Post by sillydilly on 08/20/10 at 01:44:34

thanks oldfeller.

unfortunately due to lack of knowledge, funds, and tools.. I ended up doing a lot of 'work' to an 81 xj650 I have and a lot of half-arsed techniques to get it running again.

I was going to check valves today and I was trying to get that little cover off on the left crankcase side and ended up piercing a hole through it. had to rip off the entire case and JB weld it.

me and my brother Rocky spent a few hours cleaning up the old torn gasket and debating on using gasket paper, silicone, or form-a-gasket to make a solid seal when we decide to remount it. almost safe to say that cover is ceased on and wont want to come off next time.

Right now going to let the JB dry overnight and decide what to do in the morning. really hate dealing with gaskets.

ill post some pics in the morning :(

Title: Re: Engine Ticking + Harsh shifting?
Post by sillydilly on 08/23/10 at 00:40:15

well today me Rocky, Parker, and Little T did some routine maintenance to my bike and got it going alright.

Turns out it wasnt the valves rattling its the old speedo-rattle and I've decided not to fix it.

The harsh shifting was cured by 1L of Lucas oil stabalizer + 1L of 20w/50 oil.

Only thing I need now is to get rid of this YZ144 out of my shop it is taking up too much room! >:(

Title: Re: Engine Ticking + Harsh shifting?
Post by Oldfeller on 08/23/10 at 03:08:13

"Turns out it wasnt the valves rattling its the old speedo-rattle and I've decided not to fix it.

The harsh shifting was cured by 1L of Lucas oil stabalizer + 1L of 20w/50 oil."

Yep, the "magic stuff" in the oil .... and the "I've decided not to fix it" The Bills symptoms are present, but the patient is still willing and active and is fighting the rest of his issues.

Nurse, note on his chart he did adjust his valves, so he's certainly not into the late stages of Bill's disease yet, he's just showing a couple of the typical early symptoms. Also note he is also way way too young to have terminal Bills and he still is doing some routine maintenance.

Nurse, let's give him 500 ccs of penicillin B and a Clymers manual -- there is certainly a lot of hope here for this one. Schedule him for "Search Function in the Tech Section" and the "The Tech Index, your first friend" classes and have him come back in six weeks. He still has that nasty speedo rattle that needs attention once the big shot of penicillin gets his system back into normal mode.

===========================

Sillydilly, we are right proud of you for getting your bike running again. Do you have any plans for making a bobber or a cafe racer out of it? Them Cafe types sure do look purty as does a well turned out bobber. Bobbers don't cost a lot to do since you reuse most of the existing parts after chopping them.

Now drop drawers and bend over the examination table -- the nurse has a little present for you that may sting a little bit.

(Nurse, you did warm that penicillin up to room temperature this time, didn't you?

I hate it when they yell out so loud in the office like that ....)

Title: Re: Engine Ticking + Harsh shifting?
Post by bill67 on 08/23/10 at 03:29:23

OF these aren't harleys you don't have to work on them all week so you can ride on the weekend.

Title: Re: Engine Ticking + Harsh shifting?
Post by Oldfeller on 08/23/10 at 03:45:00

Dr. Bill !!

Fancy meeting you over here!

While you are here, Dr. would you please explain to Sillydilly why putting a 50% mix of thick goopy stuff in his oil may possibly could mebbe cause him to have some issues with his wet clutch slipping and possibly building up some hard slick glazing compounds on his plate surfaces?

You are our second most revered oil expert after all, and you are here today and Dr. Verslagen is out playing golf.

Title: Re: Engine Ticking + Harsh shifting?
Post by bill67 on 08/23/10 at 04:00:26

OF the reason valves need adjusting is wear what causes wear cheap oil,Now OF you wouldn't be using a cheap oil would you.

Title: Re: Engine Ticking + Harsh shifting?
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/23/10 at 04:16:56

Valves need adjusted more when its new. The pointy ends of the adjuster start to mushroom a bit, till they harden up & get pounded down as far as theyre gonna go. OIl cant keep that from happening.

Title: Re: Engine Ticking + Harsh shifting?
Post by bill67 on 08/23/10 at 04:31:33

JOG what brand of oil do you use?

Title: Re: Engine Ticking + Harsh shifting?
Post by Charon on 08/23/10 at 05:50:56

Oil also cannot keep valve seats and the edges of the valves from wearing. The oil doesn't even get to those places. Wear there causes valves to tighten, and when they tighten up enough to take out all the clearances in the system the valves leak, and then burn.
Best advice is to use whatever grade of oil the owner's manual recommends. Conventional or synthetic will work just fine. Additives, whether for oil or fuel, are not recommended.

Title: Re: Engine Ticking + Harsh shifting?
Post by bill67 on 08/23/10 at 05:57:49

Additive Sea Foam for the oil and gasoline is highly recommend,Walmart and every hardware,and auto parts carry it. If it didn't work it would have been off their shelves many years ago,Charon don't tell newbies something that you don't know about,You are doing the old record thing again. >:(Sea Foam lubes the valve seats and edges of valves.

Title: Re: Engine Ticking + Harsh shifting?
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/23/10 at 06:27:03

545F5A5A0001360 wrote:

JOG what brand of oil do you use?

For about the 1st 3 or 4 oil changes, I used Official, right outta the Motorcycle shop oils. It still needed valves adjusted & even tho Id used the kinds of oils I was "supposed to", my cam chain tensioner got out of spec. I started reading & asking questions & eventually settled on Rotella. Diesel engines are very demanding of good lubrication. I figured an oil that could keep something like that alive had to be a decent oil. Works out, Ize Right!

Title: Re: Engine Ticking + Harsh shifting?
Post by Oldfeller on 08/23/10 at 08:21:42

Sillydilly,

Welcome to the endless OIL WAR !!!

You didn't know we had an oil war draft around here, did ya?

You can't be drafted until after you are 16, but after that you have to go war with the rest of us ....

It's list policy

;D

(and you have listed your position already as "I do adjust my valves and I do use additives in my oil")

===================================

NEWS FLASH

We gots us a BRAND NEW "wild growing data image" fresh plucked from the holler,

and as soon as Dr. Verslagen gets off the golf course he

can explain jest what the heck it all means ....

http://verslagen.savageriders.com/Oil%20War/Klotz-1.jpg

Title: Re: Engine Ticking + Harsh shifting?
Post by sillydilly on 08/23/10 at 11:44:05

Man I am so confused right now.

Probably not going to bother with the speedo rattle and Im definately not chopping the bike

I've got the long-legged disease and Im afraid I might need to move onto something bigger

Title: Re: Engine Ticking + Harsh shifting?
Post by Oldfeller on 08/23/10 at 11:47:52

http://www.huber-verlag.de/daten/newspool/image/2407/2407_0original.jpg

Have you considered forward controls? Ed sells them for the Savage over in the marketplace and he (and some of the rest of the ones around here) are around six feet tall and use the forward controls to give them leg stretch room.

Don't get confused by the boys, they is jest foolin around wid each other.

me too

:D

Title: Re: Engine Ticking + Harsh shifting?
Post by bill67 on 08/23/10 at 12:40:32

081711160B0C3D0D3D05171B50620 wrote:

[quote author=545F5A5A0001360 link=1282202091/15#15 date=1282563093]JOG what brand of oil do you use?

Title: Re: Engine Ticking + Harsh shifting?
Post by Charon on 08/23/10 at 16:53:55

Bill67, you clearly do not understand Walmart. They don't care whether additives WORK - only that they SELL. I am tired of arguing with you - you win. Say all you want about worthless additives - which they all are. You have beaten me. I admit defeat. Newbies are on their own to do their own research. I hope you are happy.

Title: Re: Engine Ticking + Harsh shifting?
Post by bill67 on 08/23/10 at 16:57:26

Charon I've seen it work to many times in the oil and in the gasoline not to tell people about it.A lot of people I know use it farmers, boaters,cars. and motorcycles.

Title: Re: Engine Ticking + Harsh shifting?
Post by verslagen1 on 08/23/10 at 18:13:51

Boy I'd sure like to see you 2 get together.
I'm sure the resounding crack from you 2 butting heads together will make a herd of big horn sheep stand up and take notice. :o

Title: Re: Engine Ticking + Harsh shifting?
Post by Oldfeller on 08/23/10 at 18:29:19

Charon,

Bill is totally impervious to data or facts -- they just bounce off. You gotta understand, he has a medical condition that renders him "in belief" that they work as stated.

Any vendor's product claim is believed if it means Bill can pour it in (and NOT have to hit a bolt head with a wrench -- ever).

They named the syndrome after him -- Bills Syndrome

Title: Re: Engine Ticking + Harsh shifting?
Post by bill67 on 08/23/10 at 18:32:56

OF did you ever change the oil in a shock?

Title: Re: Engine Ticking + Harsh shifting?
Post by Oldfeller on 08/23/10 at 23:20:20

Not on a Savage, was on a Honda front fork (if that is what you mean by shock). If you mean rear shock, no.

Title: Re: Engine Ticking + Harsh shifting?
Post by bill67 on 08/24/10 at 03:07:46

I mean rear shock