|
SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Not the belt... /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1282133049 Message started by nathanhooper on 08/18/10 at 05:04:09 |
|
Title: Not the belt... Post by nathanhooper on 08/18/10 at 05:04:09 Well after much more consideration, and listening to what the sound is that is coming from underneath me while shifting and decelerating, I am convinced, almost, that it is not the belt. I can see how some might think it is, it does sound like one slipping, but the noise really sounds like it is coming from the right side. I bought this bike thinking that the owner was trying to hid something. I know that it is probably a stupid thing to go ahead and buy when you have a real gut feeling on something, but I wanted the bike. Cosmetically it is in great condition. Unfortunately, a great looking bike wont get you too far. lol. The first clue I had was how full the engine was of oil. So I am going to guess, wild stab here, that the noise is clutch slippage. I am not an expert, nor have I ever had this problem, so I might be completely off base. But the noise is coming from that spot. It only comes when I shift, or decelerate, and general only when I am travelling at high speeds. It may have happened some before at low speed so I cannot rule it out. It however does not happen at all in first gear, and if I time the clutch release just right it wont happen in any of the other gears. However, I cannot make it not happen in 5th gear. It always happens in that one. Anyone have any comments, solutions, advise? I am thinking someone put the wrong oil in at some point and it is what is causing it. Would some good motorcycle detergent oil put in, driven for a while, changed, and then done over a couple of times clean the clutch of the antistickeries (lol). Or am I looking at a gear issue? At this point I am now just throwing darts out there so I think I will shut up and let you all talk back. Thanks!!! |
|
Title: Re: Not the belt... Post by Routy on 08/18/10 at 05:59:36 Quote: The first clue I had was how full the engine was of oil. ----------------------------------------------------------- Over filling the oil may be common on these bikes. I for one, keep the oil to the low line while on the side stand..... the front wheel turned hard right. This will show overfilled when held up straight, and doesn't hurt a thing,.......in 2,000 miles anyway. If the clutch was slipping, you should know it,....as it would slip under full power,.......kinda like the engine would rev up, the the speedo wouldn't ?? If the oil bothers you, change it to Rotella T,....not that its any better than any other, but it is the most popular here. I have belt screech lots of the time, specially when cold. And belt wear (none) shows perfect alignment. Over full, belt squeek, and backfire.. is part of my perfect bike ;) |
|
Title: Re: Not the belt... Post by nathanhooper on 08/18/10 at 06:40:56 Maybe so. I mean I am not an expert, so it could in deed be the belt slipping, it is just that the sound comes from the right and not the left of the bike. I do plan on switching oil, and doing a couple of good changes in the next couple thousand miles. I will ride and average of 500+ miles a month as long as there is not snow or ice on the ground. The rpm's do not rev while underway at all. So maybe that is a good sign huh. At first I was seriously concerned with maybe it being the cam chain doing something crazy, but after studying the symptoms of cam chain wear it doesn't seem plausible. Its a nice, fun bike to ride. I just hope to get at least 3 years from it, or around 10,000 miles. If I can do that then I will feel like I have gotten my money out of it. |
|
Title: Re: Not the belt... Post by verslagen1 on 08/18/10 at 07:30:16 So what noise are you hearing? a squeal? a clunk? a grind? chain dragging on metal? The drive pull can clunk when loose. the belt will squeal when out of alignment or wet. a loose cam chain can drag or grind or an ovaled tensioner can clack or tick valves can tick and I heard a new sound the other day, tick, tick, tick... didn't know what it was... till my tire went flat. >:( the nail was hitting the fender until it was driven in. |
|
Title: Re: Not the belt... Post by Serowbot on 08/18/10 at 10:43:32 Best way to find out, is to spray the belt with something (chain wax, wd40, Vaseline) and see if the sound changes... Then you'll know... |
|
Title: Re: Not the belt... Post by Bubba on 08/18/10 at 10:44:32 NH, I too kept hearing a rattle/squeal/something coming from the right side of the bike. Kept turning my head to try and figure out what was going on and where it was coming from. I'd played with the belt tensioners and now have it just about perfectly aligned and at the right tension but I was still getting this crazy noise...finally I took some parrafin wax and rubbed it on the edges of the drive belt...all gone. If you try it you may find that the sound is actually bouncing around somehow so that it seems to come from the right. |
|
Title: Re: Not the belt... Post by nathanhooper on 08/18/10 at 12:04:49 The sound is a "whine", not a squeal, or a tick, or a rattle. It is very comparable to holding the end of a cordless drill chuck and tightening it down on a bit or something. Not the sound that the torque device makes, but the sound of an increased load on the drill motor. It is NOT the exact same sound, but hopefully you can get an idea of what I am talking about. |
|
Title: Re: Not the belt... Post by markbacon on 08/18/10 at 15:51:39 Does sound like the clutch to me. If motor was run with too much oil for too long clutch plates may have glazed. Particularly if, as mine did, the hub nut has loosened. I'd pull the clutch and take a look. Re-assembly can be managed without special tools if you jam the primary drive gears witha copper coin and re-assemble first with stacks of washers to tension the springs instead of the pressure plate. This will allow you to do up the hub nut to something approaching the specced torque. Bend up the lock washer against both sides of a corner rather than a flat - this will allow you to get it snug enough to stop the nut loosening at all in future. |
|
Title: Re: Not the belt... Post by groupus on 08/18/10 at 16:32:23 it is so hard to describe noises in words, but my bike makes a kinda whirring sound (like the drill noise you described) some times, i think when down shifting from high speeds. its not consistent, so its hard to pin down. i'm not sure where it comes from but sounds like the right side too. that said, i'm pretty certain that it is coming from front belt pulley as a result of the engine speed being mismatched with the road speed and putting extra force on the belt. kinda like putting increased load on a drill. the noise could be coming from internal parts too like gears, but i don't think mine is the clutch. are you matching your engine speed when you shift? |
|
Title: Re: Not the belt... Post by Trippah on 08/18/10 at 16:40:37 One quick and easy check is disconnecting the speedo cable which can produce and interesting sound; but too much oil can have clutch issues. Keep us posted on trials and results. |
|
Title: Re: Not the belt... Post by nathanhooper on 08/19/10 at 11:29:19 I will try the different ways of diagnosis, but I am still not convinced on the belt. I have narrowed it down a little more as far as things that happen. It does not make the sound in first gear at all. In second it is a little, third through fifth is the whiners. In third gear if I wrap it up to a high rpm and then let it coast down, like pulling in a parking lot or something, then it will make the sound until I pull in the clutch handle. It only makes it on deceleration and not acceleration. It is not intermittent when there is a load on the engine. Hopefully this information will help diagnose the situation more. When I get time I will try the other things. I was talking with a guy I work with and he made it clear that he absolutely did not know anything about motorcycle clutches, but that on a car when it makes that noise it is the throwout bearing. I have no experience with either car or motorcycle clutches so maybe someone else that does with both can chime in. Thanks again guys. |
|
Title: Re: Not the belt... Post by nathanhooper on 08/19/10 at 12:03:11 Maybe not clutch but transmission?? Anyone had theirs go out before? |
|
Title: Re: Not the belt... Post by Charon on 08/19/10 at 13:14:38 All the gears in the transmission are straight-cut gears, as is the primary gearing (engine to clutch). Maybe all you are hearing is normal gear whine, as these transmissions are far from silent. That would also explain why it sounds different in different gears, or under load versus coasting down. |
|
Title: Re: Not the belt... Post by bill67 on 08/19/10 at 13:30:13 Put some Sea Foam in it to clean the clutch and motor out,Then put in the best Synthetic motorcycle oil you can afford nothing lighter than 10w-40w I prefer 15-50 myself. |
|
Title: Re: Not the belt... Post by Charon on 08/19/10 at 20:17:02 What - am I the only one willing to risk the ire of bill67? The Sea Foam is, based on its ingredient list and the small amount used, unlikely to do anything useful to "clean the clutch and motor out." The basic Savage/S40 does not need synthetic oil, either. If you feel the need to clean out the engine and clutch, change the oil a time or two at short intervals (500 miles or so) using any 10w-40 oil. Shell Rotella has a good reputation in motorcycle use, either in conventional 15w-40 or synthetic 5w-40. bill67 will tell you not to use a diesel oil, but Shell Rotella also has the motorcycle ratings, so he is just blowing smoke. And no, I do not own any Shell stock. |
|
Title: Re: Not the belt... Post by bill67 on 08/20/10 at 03:36:48 Theres a lot of oils with motorcycle ratings,Their called motorcycle oil. |
|
Title: Re: Not the belt... Post by babyhog on 08/20/10 at 08:04:57 456E67746968060 wrote:
Nah, its just a broken record that you eventually just stop playing... LOL |
|
Title: Re: Not the belt... Post by bill67 on 08/20/10 at 08:10:59 Are you taking about Charons broken record? |
|
Title: Re: Not the belt... Post by nathanhooper on 08/20/10 at 08:30:14 Ok, ok...I am new on here but I have done enough looking around to tell that it's all fun and games till someone gets their eye poked out. Seriously though thanks for the info. I had thought about the seafoam, however it is true that just putting a small amount in would do nothing, and too much would do more harm than good. I think if you could figure out the right amount and the right time to leave it in it definitly would do something to help clean residuals. I do not know if I will go the synthetic route however. I would rather change my oil more often then not have to, which IS the benifit to running synthetic. It is a well known fact that the biggest adjantage to synthetics is they take longer to break down. Seeing how I feel like there is something up with the current oil inside, I want to try and get it all out. That will require multiple oil changes and conventional oil is not going to break down quicker than I will be changing it. I will let you guys know the outcome. I am really hoping that it is just normal gear noise though. Please chime in if anyone has ever had this and it didn't turn out to be normal noise. |
|
Title: Re: Not the belt... Post by Charon on 08/20/10 at 08:57:18 You are absolutely correct, Piglet. It IS a broken record, and I would be more than happy to never play it again. But I feel guilty just sitting by and letting misinformation go unchallenged, especially to new folks on the Forum. |
|
Title: Re: Not the belt... Post by bill67 on 08/20/10 at 09:21:18 See Charon goes on with his broken record playing. |
|
Title: Re: Not the belt... Post by buttgoat1 on 08/20/10 at 09:35:18 I think the other advantage of sythetic is ability to withstand higher heat before it loses its lubricating abilities. That is best advantage for us IMO. |
|
Title: Re: Not the belt... Post by Routy on 08/20/10 at 16:53:27 Tell me more about overfilled oil causes clutch issues. Mine was overfilled when I bought it used. And due to the stupid way of checking oil, mine is always overfull because I check it on the side stand, and I haven't had any clutch issues in 5500 miles. As for the noise issues, I would bet all the noises you're hearing are normal. What are you running for a windshield ?The size shape and design of a windshield can make a huge difference in the noises you will hear. When I first got my bike, I rode w/ no windshield, and a full helmet. I'm tellin ya my engine was quiet.......not a sound. Then I went to a 1/2 helmet, and I wondered if the valves needed adjusting, or if the pistons were swapping holes. Then a little later I bought a small wind shield, and the noise was magnified a little. Then a week or 3 ago, I put on a Falcon fairing type windshield, and that magnified the engine noise even more. These engines are not quiet if you are able to hear them. And there is a lot of different noises at different speeds and RPMs Quit worryin about it so much, and do more ridin. 03253E2727363F570 wrote:
|
|
Title: Re: Not the belt... Post by verslagen1 on 08/20/10 at 17:06:14 717E647F636576747C7265170 wrote:
I'm not surprised. |
|
Title: Re: Not the belt... Post by nathanhooper on 08/20/10 at 17:37:04 382B3C3D222F292B207F4E0 wrote:
I'm not surprised.[/quote] Not sure about this??? You might have hit the nail on the head with the windshield. It does magnify the sounds. Not sure what brand it is, but I like it. It is pretty big and definitly does magnify engine sounds. I do hope the noise is normal, but I am pretty sure it is not the belt. It might indeed be the front pulley though. I have been out of town, and won't be able to check till I get home, but doing some reading and it may be the nut is loose on the front pulley? I am not "worried" about the noise as such. But if it is an indication of something going wrong I would like to nip it in the butt. I am not a weekend rider only, I use the bike for my transportation back and forth to work. I need it to last a while. |
|
Title: Re: Not the belt... Post by groupus on 08/21/10 at 17:07:27 I think we're pretty safe in assuming that it is probably normal gear noise. like i said, mine does something similar and i don't see it as an issue. the windshield probably is whats making it louder and hard to track down the noise. if it starts to get worse or there is a physical effect along with it (vibration, shuttering, etc) then you might want to look further into it. go and check the belt pulley too, just for sh!ts. I hate these oil/seafoam wars that get started on here, but i think it would be wise to change your oil just as a precaution. if you want to use seafoam or some other cleaner, use the recommended amount on the bottle. it couldn't hurt, right? seafoam is good because you can put it in the oil or gas. do that a little before you change it. i wouldn't want to ride with watered down oil for too long. then replace it with some good synthetic with an API rating equal to or higher than the manual says - thats the letter rating, not the SAE weight. if you really want to do it right, use mobil 1 or high performance motorcycle oil. i change mine every 2000 miles now and the filter every 4000. Good luck! |
|
Title: Re: Not the belt... Post by nathanhooper on 08/22/10 at 07:02:04 The only piece of the puzzle I do not have is how the bike felt new. I mean, I could just keep an ear out for the sound getting louder, and more vibration, but I have no clue as to what the bike sounded and felt like from factory. I have thought about going and test ridding a new one just to get an idea, but then you have the issue of not every bike is made the same. I thought there was a little excess vibration when I fist started ridding it, but how do you tell if there is? |
|
Title: Re: Not the belt... Post by Charon on 08/22/10 at 08:44:25 There is some normal vibration on these bikes. They are a big single, with about the same piston displacement as one cylinder of a Chrysler 5.2 V8 (318). It is impossible to perfectly counterbalance a single cylinder engine without at least two counterbalance shafts, and these have only one. Add to that the power "pulse" generated each time the cylinder fires, and there is no way to avoid some felt vibration. The stock handlebars are rubber mounted, which helps, as are the pegs. Just think of it as the "character" of the bike. And remember vibration tends to loosen things, so check the hardware every so often. |
|
Title: Re: Not the belt... Post by bill67 on 08/22/10 at 08:46:06 637467727473746778150 wrote:
Hi performance synthetic will with stand higher heat,And you will have less wear to the engine and transmission,And will make it slightly quieter. |
|
Title: Re: Not the belt... Post by verslagen1 on 08/22/10 at 09:54:51 6C63766A636C6A6D6D726770020 wrote:
Yes a new bike is great for comparison, but changes are subtle and you probably won't notice till it becomes unbearable. vibrations in the foot pegs tend to be the lower motor mounts, torque them to 50 ftlbs if you start feeling a sharp vibration in the hand grips, check the upper motor mounts. might even hear a metallic click. |
|
Title: Re: Not the belt... Post by nathanhooper on 08/22/10 at 11:33:03 I don't mind the vibrations at all. I figured, and knew before I bought it, that it would be rather vibratious. The only other bike I have ever owned for any amount of time is a little single cylinder 200cc enduro. It has some vibration too, but nothing like this one. But going from 200 to 650 I did expect a big difference. I am back at the homestead now and will pick up some oil tomorrow. I will probably ride all week and then change it out again next weekend, then maybe once more in another week or two. Doing that will make me feel better about it anyways. |
|
SuzukiSavage.com » Powered by YaBB 2.2! YaBB © 2000-2007. All Rights Reserved. |