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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Rotella T-6 5w-40 Synthetic oil useage on Dragon /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1281376737 Message started by Oldfeller on 08/09/10 at 10:58:57 |
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Title: Rotella T-6 5w-40 Synthetic oil useage on Dragon Post by Oldfeller on 08/09/10 at 10:58:57 OK, I'm back from the second mountain run this summer, one Dragon Run and one Black Line Run. I added 1/3 quart total to replace what was used and this is after both the two high speed runs (plus mileage running around town between the runs and the 800 interstate miles to get to and from the Dragon run thrown on top of that). That's not a lot of oil useage considering what you all saw me do to that crankcase of oil during the two runs. Rotella T-6 full synthetic is now selling at your local Wal-Mart for $19 a gallon. If you buy it at Advanced Auto it will cost you $23 a gallon for the exact same jug. Both T-6 and the dino Rotella T now both carry each of the two JASO ratings right on the bottle now along with every car and diesel rating you can imagine. No energy star -- known to be motorcycle clutch friendly. |
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Title: Re: Rotella T-6 5w-40 Synthetic oil useage on Drag Post by bill67 on 08/09/10 at 11:37:38 I ask the girl in Wal-mart about that t-6 she said that not for motorcycles. |
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Title: Re: Rotella T-6 5w-40 Synthetic oil useage on Drag Post by EJID on 08/09/10 at 11:47:13 000B0E0E5455620 wrote:
And I trust everything a Wal-mart employee tells me...lol :-? |
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Title: Re: Rotella T-6 5w-40 Synthetic oil useage on Drag Post by Charon on 08/09/10 at 12:19:43 That's OK, Bill. WalMart sells Seafoam. Oldfeller, I am a little curious about your oil usage. I have two lawn tractors, one with a Briggs & Stratton engine and one with a Kohler. Both say to use SAE 30 at temperatures above freezing; both say to use SAE 5W-30 below freezing. Both say the multi-viscosity oil is OK above freezing, but say oil consumption will be higher. Have you compared oil usage of the T-6 oil to consumption of other grades under similar driving conditions? |
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Title: Re: Rotella T-6 5w-40 Synthetic oil useage on Drag Post by bill67 on 08/09/10 at 13:05:44 Read on the bottle of t=6 were doe it say motorcycles |
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Title: Re: Rotella T-6 5w-40 Synthetic oil useage on Drag Post by bill67 on 08/09/10 at 13:10:30 Newer lawn mowers are saying 10-30, But I wouldn't use 5-30 in a motorcycle |
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Title: Re: Rotella T-6 5w-40 Synthetic oil useage on Drag Post by Digger on 08/09/10 at 20:52:48 6D66636339380F0 wrote:
JASO MA rated....says so right on the jug. 'Nuff said. |
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Title: Re: Rotella T-6 5w-40 Synthetic oil useage on Drag Post by JohnBoy on 08/10/10 at 05:47:30 For 4-stroke gasoline engines, the JASO T904 standard is used, and is particularly relevant to motorcycle engines. The JASO T904-MA and MA2 standards are designed to distinguish oils that are approved for wet clutch use. |
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Title: Re: Rotella T-6 5w-40 Synthetic oil useage on Drag Post by bill67 on 08/10/10 at 05:52:29 If they can write JASO they should be able to write motorcycle,I don't think any motorcycle company recommends 5-40 oil. |
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Title: Re: Rotella T-6 5w-40 Synthetic oil useage on Drag Post by Bubba on 08/10/10 at 06:46:37 Rotella dino works for me...works fine. Does anyone really care??? These aren't track bikes... |
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Title: Re: Rotella T-6 5w-40 Synthetic oil useage on Drag Post by Charon on 08/10/10 at 07:04:27 Judging by the fervency of oil discussions on this and other forums, quite a few people care. And at least some of them are quite passionate about their beliefs. I cannot speak for all motorcycle makers, nor all models. But the Owner's Manuals for the three bikes I own (Kawasaki 250 Ninja; Kawasaki BN125; Suzuki LS650) recommend nothing lighter than 10W-30. None recommend a 5W-anything for any temperature. My Kawasaki Mule 610 is the same. |
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Title: Re: Rotella T-6 5w-40 Synthetic oil useage on Drag Post by Bubba on 08/10/10 at 07:38:49 My bad, I guess some folks just like to talk about oil. Personally, I've been using Rotella 15-40 in my Trooper because it has a known flaw in the oil drain back hole design for the piston rings (in other words, it burns oil). Using the Rotella (suggested in a Trooper forum) has helped. I was thrilled when I joined this forum and discovered the same oil was working fine for our bikes. I'll quietly bow out now...have fun! |
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Title: Re: Rotella T-6 5w-40 Synthetic oil useage on Drag Post by bill67 on 08/10/10 at 08:13:33 If anyone can tell me a oil thats not working fine,They win 1st prize |
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Title: Re: Rotella T-6 5w-40 Synthetic oil useage on Drag Post by spacepirates on 08/10/10 at 13:03:37 575C59590302350 wrote:
.... vegetable oil? you could tell when to change your oil by how much it smells like french fries! ;D |
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Title: Re: Rotella T-6 5w-40 Synthetic oil useage on Drag Post by verslagen1 on 08/10/10 at 13:39:47 505B5E5E0405320 wrote:
mobil1, suv, 20w-50, clutch slippage. returning to good ole RotSyn fixed it. |
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Title: Re: Rotella T-6 5w-40 Synthetic oil useage on Drag Post by bill67 on 08/10/10 at 13:45:36 Mobil 1 didn't make my 1500 clutch slip,Auto Mobil 1 |
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Title: Re: Rotella T-6 5w-40 Synthetic oil useage on Drag Post by verslagen1 on 08/10/10 at 14:49:32 3D36333369685F0 wrote:
What?!?! no klotz? Or don't you think it really is that good? Or don't you give a sh!t about your 1500? |
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Title: Re: Rotella T-6 5w-40 Synthetic oil useage on Drag Post by bill67 on 08/10/10 at 15:14:45 I used Mobil 1 when I did the first oil change since then Klotz,And the clutch didn't slip. |
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Title: Re: Rotella T-6 5w-40 Synthetic oil useage on Drag Post by verslagen1 on 08/10/10 at 16:42:23 72797C7C2627100 wrote:
So you couldn't find klotz at the time? or where you trying out some recomendation from the forum? And I used it for several changes until the issue showed up. How can you use it once and say it's good? And why would a solid klotz like yourself even go out on a limb to recommend something you haven't tried extensively? |
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Title: Re: Rotella T-6 5w-40 Synthetic oil useage on Drag Post by bill67 on 08/10/10 at 16:57:48 I didn't know about Mobil 1 till I got to this forum ::) I started using Mobil 1 in cars when it first came out.I've used it in motorcycles, Klotz is better.The motor runs smooth shifts smooth than Mobil 1 which is a very good oil. I realize Its a little to high priced for some peoples blood here.But its the cheapest insurance for your engine that you can buy.Man you think no one knows about motorcycles unless your on this forum :o :o :o ::) ::) |
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Title: Re: Rotella T-6 5w-40 Synthetic oil useage on Drag Post by bill67 on 08/10/10 at 17:05:16 Versy take off the horse blinders. |
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Title: Re: Rotella T-6 5w-40 Synthetic oil useage on Drag Post by verslagen1 on 08/10/10 at 17:06:33 unless you buy from walmart, klotz same price as mobil1 |
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Title: Re: Rotella T-6 5w-40 Synthetic oil useage on Drag Post by bill67 on 08/10/10 at 17:12:47 The price is pretty close which makes Klotz a steal. |
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Title: Re: Rotella T-6 5w-40 Synthetic oil useage on Drag Post by Oldfeller on 08/10/10 at 18:31:46 5w40 synthetic oil simply says when it is very cold the oil flows freely. At operating temperature it will flow like a 40 weight oil, that's what the second number means. It is an all season oil for anywhere in the USA, winter or summer. Actual observation is that the oil doesn't change viscosity much at all -- put it in the freezer, put it in the oven at 350 it doesn't go through the wild viscosity swings that dino oil does. Why use it? Heat it up to 450 degrees and it is remains a liquid. Do that to dino oil for very long and it becomes a viscous solid and you just bought an engine. And it does it for $5 a quart, every day every week no sale required. |
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Title: Re: Rotella T-6 5w-40 Synthetic oil useage on Drag Post by verslagen1 on 08/10/10 at 18:38:09 5B5055550F0E390 wrote:
That's like the iron pot calling the copper kettle black. |
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Title: Re: Rotella T-6 5w-40 Synthetic oil useage on Drag Post by bill67 on 08/10/10 at 19:24:02 I'd like to help you guys out but you know sometimes its hard to crack a nut. |
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Title: Re: Rotella T-6 5w-40 Synthetic oil useage on Drag Post by verslagen1 on 08/10/10 at 19:45:20 you're cracked so it can't be too hard to do. |
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Title: Re: Rotella T-6 5w-40 Synthetic oil useage on Drag Post by Oldfeller on 08/10/10 at 21:37:46 Charon, <I cannot speak for all motorcycle makers, nor all models. But the Owner's Manuals for the three bikes I own (Kawasaki 250 Ninja; Kawasaki BN125; Suzuki LS650) recommend nothing lighter than 10W-30. None recommend a 5W-anything for any temperature. My Kawasaki Mule 610 is the same.> I dunno, perhaps they only put dino oil recommendations in their owner's manuals since nobody but crazy people pay $13 a quart for synthetic oils with 0w first numbers? example = 0w50 Mobil1 oil -- go figure. Good for very cold starts, when at operating temps it is like 50 weight oil. |
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Title: Re: Rotella T-6 5w-40 Synthetic oil useage on Drag Post by kimchris1 on 08/10/10 at 22:03:15 Correct me if I am wrong. Isn't Verslagen1 the one that has done the most extensive oil comparisons on this forum? I would be more inclined to go by his suggestions than someone that hasn't done the testing like he has. :) |
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Title: Re: Rotella T-6 5w-40 Synthetic oil useage on Drag Post by verslagen1 on 08/10/10 at 22:11:12 6567636D667C677D3F0E0 wrote:
thanks for the word of confidence, but there are a couple here who could speak volumes on oil. I could fill a page in comparison. Yet I would rank myself above a girl at walmart whom bill could fall in love with. |
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Title: Re: Rotella T-6 5w-40 Synthetic oil useage on Drag Post by bill67 on 08/11/10 at 04:10:09 Rotella t6 is a Group 3 oil=====Mobil1 and Amsoil is a Group 4=====Klotz is a Group 5 oil Group, 5 being the best,Thats why I use it. |
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Title: Re: Rotella T-6 5w-40 Synthetic oil useage on Drag Post by Jay on 08/11/10 at 19:27:55 OK, lets see; helmet - check, flak vest - check, kevlar undies - check. Looks like I'm ready to enter the fray. ;D Interesting observations on the Rotella Syn. I've been using the Rotella dino for several thousand miles now, and I have no complaints. For some reason the syn is hard to come by at my local Wallymart. Probably just as well. I change my oil and filter every thousand miles, and the syn would get a wee bit expensive. And yes, I know every thousand miles is overkill. I just can't make myself go longer. It gives me an ulcer worrying over it. |
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Title: Re: Rotella T-6 5w-40 Synthetic oil useage on Drag Post by Trippah on 08/11/10 at 19:43:46 Jay - there are sooo many things to get the ulcer over..good heavens, unless you are racing in the NewMexico desert, change your dino evry 5 K miles (thats usually once a year) and spend the money you saved on a good steak. Again, which syn are people suggesting? ;D |
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Title: Re: Rotella T-6 5w-40 Synthetic oil useage on Drag Post by spacepirates on 08/11/10 at 20:54:22 684E554C4C5D543C0 wrote:
Personally I don't think the Rotella T-6 5W-40 Syn is all that expensive at $20 a gallon, but i might just be naive on that subject. Also, I haven't been using it all that long (only two-three seasons (6-8k miles)) so I can't really say how much it adds/subtracts from the life of the engine. I can say, however, that it SIGNIFICANTLY helps with cold starts. I had a month and a half of push-starts where i'd walk my bike three blocks to a small hill, up the small hill, and ride her down trying to start her. switched to T-6 5W-40 after that and it seemed to help. Of course, if you don't ride in freezing weather, i'm not sure i'd bother. but when it is 25 when you go to work, and 50 when you come home for a few months at a time, i can't say i'd rather not ride... just warm my hands up on the jug for a few minutes when i get there! |
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Title: Re: Rotella T-6 5w-40 Synthetic oil useage on Drag Post by Oldfeller on 08/11/10 at 22:02:04 Really, the consensus round here is that unless you have high speed high RPM or temperature related issues you really don't need the synthetic oil in the first place. (need as in "must have") And if I didn't have my own personal history cooking a car engine into "sludge lock" using dino oil I might not be such a "synthetic oil saves you from high temp issues" fanboy either. Verslagen and I DO have "hot" engines (performance modded) so we may need the synthetic oils that we use. He also runs in the California summer heat, which I luckily don't have to deal with. However, Bill plods along around at the fairly cool Great Lakes area speed limits with a stock engine using a group 5 synthetic oil that costs him $13 a quart (with shipping on top of that) simply because he LOVES his Klotz -- it's red, it's magical and so it's gotta be better than anything else. Now Bill's going out of his way to irritate the one person who is getting ready to verify if Klotz is better or not by emperically testing it and collecting temperature rise data off of it to directly compare it to Rotella T-6. Go figure -- must be some "performance jitters" on Bill's part as his magical red stuff is actually going to have data collected on it for the very first time ..... ;D ;D ;D |
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Title: Re: Rotella T-6 5w-40 Synthetic oil useage on Drag Post by verslagen1 on 08/11/10 at 22:08:04 mines basically a stock engine still. |
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Title: Re: Rotella T-6 5w-40 Synthetic oil useage on Drag Post by verslagen1 on 08/11/10 at 22:23:33 so what do you think of this stuff? http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Brad-Penn-Motorcycle-Semi-Syn-20W-50-Case-Green-Oil-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQitemZ270587098829QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories#ht_4671wt_793 |
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Title: Re: Rotella T-6 5w-40 Synthetic oil useage on Drag Post by Educatedredneck on 08/12/10 at 02:04:40 I'll chime in with this, I use Rotella dino in my bike, runs great. I use the full syn in my Jetta Turbo,(gas motor), and the car runs great, stays cool, and passed emissions in MD with flying colors. I may start using the full syn in the bike, just so I don't have to buy two different kinds of oil. I know this may be dumb, put I have only used Mobil 1 in my Toyota van since I bought it new in 06, but once it clocks 100m, I'm switching it to Rotella. Maybe Walmart will give me a volume discount. ;D |
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Title: Re: Rotella T-6 5w-40 Synthetic oil useage on Drag Post by BuckHMCC on 08/12/10 at 05:43:04 I've never posted to an oil thread, but here goes. The engineers who designed and built the engine specified an oil suitable for their design. That being 10W40. The owner's manual says 10W40 API classification SF or SG. Oils having a higher API classification meet the lower API classification. (There are some concerns with this statement: See, for example http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_oil or http://www.aa1car.com/library/api_motor_oil_classifications.htm and http://www.ehow.com/list_6120303_sae-oil-classifications.html ) Therefore, if you are using 10W40 with an API classification of SF or higher you are meeting the engineers' specs. The classification system goes ..., SE, SF, SG, ..., in ascending order. Given the above concerns, it is probably best to use SF through SJ API classification. Multi-viscosity oils are graded as ccWhh where the cc number is the cold-start viscosity and the hh number is the hot-running viscosity. Viscosity is the flow characteristics of the oil. The higher the number the thicker the oil. Now if you choose to use a different oil than 10W40, then you are making yourself the chief engineer with all attendant risks. That being said, one possibly sensible alternative is to use an oil with a lower cc number than 10 while staying at the hh number of 40, like 5W40. This should help cold-starting, and a lot of engine wear is reported to happen on cold starts. Be sure if you choose to use a 5W40 oil that it is JASO certified (safe for wet clutches). It is my understanding that all 10W40 oils of API classification SF or higher are safe for wet clutches. A 5W40 oil may have higher consumption than a 10W40 oil while the engine is heating up to running temperature, but probably not thereafter. I don't know, it's an educated guess, I'm not an engineer. The bottom line: If you are using 10W40 oil API classification SF-SJ, stop worrying and ride. If you must worry, worry about the fill-level of the oil. Keep it near the top fill line. An inspection mirror makes checking easy while you're sitting on the bike, upright, and level. It is my belief that no engine has been damaged from the use of a modern oil of the specified type, while many engines have died from
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Title: Re: Rotella T-6 5w-40 Synthetic oil useage on Drag Post by bill67 on 08/12/10 at 08:05:24 392A3D3C232E282A217E4F0 wrote:
I've read read that Semi-syn have 10% synthetic oil in them 90% regular oil.High priced for what you get.You could make your own combination cheaper. |
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Title: Re: Rotella T-6 5w-40 Synthetic oil useage on Drag Post by jspace on 08/12/10 at 09:17:33 does anyone use suzuki's performance 10w40 oil? |
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Title: Re: Rotella T-6 5w-40 Synthetic oil useage on Drag Post by verslagen1 on 08/12/10 at 11:22:07 313A3F3F6564530 wrote:
http://www.suzukicycles.com/Accessories/suzuki%20oil%20_%20chemicals/990A0-05A30-1QT.aspx?Tab=Care&view=&category=suzuki oil _ chemicals They sell it, so must be used by someone. |
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Title: Re: Rotella T-6 5w-40 Synthetic oil useage on Drag Post by bill67 on 08/12/10 at 12:23:36 352631302F2224262D72430 wrote:
http://www.suzukicycles.com/Accessories/suzuki%20oil%20_%20chemicals/990A0-05A30-1QT.aspx?Tab=Care&view=&category=suzuki oil _ chemicals They sell it, so must be used by someone.[/quote] I see Suzuki has a cold weather oil,Lot of of snowmobiles use 0w-40w,Lot of ATV's plow snow here in the winter. |
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Title: Re: Rotella T-6 5w-40 Synthetic oil useage on Drag Post by JohnBoy on 08/12/10 at 13:12:50 544750514E4345474C13220 wrote:
Änd it's GREEN!!! |
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Title: Re: Rotella T-6 5w-40 Synthetic oil useage on Drag Post by Charon on 08/12/10 at 17:48:21 According to Wikipedia: "Group I base stocks are composed of fractionally distilled petroleum which is further refined with solvent extraction processes to improve certain properties such as oxidation resistance and to remove wax. "Group II base stocks are composed of fractionally distilled petroleum that has been hydrocracked to further refine and purify it. "Group III base stocks have similar characteristics to Group II base stocks, except that Group III base stocks have higher viscosity indexes. Group III base stocks are produced by further hydrocracking of Group II base stocks, or of hydroisomerized slack wax, (a byproduct of the dewaxing process). "Group IV base stock are polyalphaolefins (PAOs). "Group V is a catch-all group for any base stock not described by Groups I to IV. Examples of group V base stocks include polyol esters, polyalkylene glycols (PAG oils), and perfluoropolyalkylethers (PFPAEs). "Groups I and II are commonly referred to as mineral oils, group III is typically referred to as synthetic (except in Germany and Japan, where they must not be called synthetic) and group IV is a synthetic oil. Group V base oils are so diverse that there is no catch-all description." Thus the Groups are a way of describing the base stocks of the oils, and there does not appear to be anything describing any Group as "the best." Seems to me that any oil from any Group which meets the requirements for the machine in which it is used is adequate, and any oil that is "better" is also "overkill." Naturally, the opinions of others may differ from mine. |
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Title: Re: Rotella T-6 5w-40 Synthetic oil useage on Drag Post by bill67 on 08/12/10 at 18:49:33 I'll stick with the Group 5 overkill oil,doesn't cost much more to go 1st class. |
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Title: Re: Rotella T-6 5w-40 Synthetic oil useage on Drag Post by Charon on 08/12/10 at 19:14:37 I just spent a few minutes on Klotz's web site, looking at their MX-4 10W-40 motorcycle oil. While they describe their oil as synthetic, I could find no place where they describe it as "Group 5." They did have a nice link explaining the different oil groups, however. I found an interesting item in the Tech Sheet for MX-4. They had a line marked "Film Strength". On a scale of 1=failure and 10=No Wear, the MX-4 was rated 9. I suppose that means it is just short of "No Failure." MX-4 is also supposed to have that "Race Smell" and as someone said, it is RED. It also has some sort of "Biodegradeability" which is said to be 60%. That would make suspicious little me think that perhaps it is 40% something like Group 3 and 60% Group 5, but that is just a guess. |
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Title: Re: Rotella T-6 5w-40 Synthetic oil useage on Drag Post by Serowbot on 08/12/10 at 19:22:54 Klotz is not made by mere mortals like us,... and so it is not bound by the restrictions of our earthly physics or chemistry... We Greeks are but children....:-?... |
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Title: Re: Rotella T-6 5w-40 Synthetic oil useage on Drag Post by bill67 on 08/13/10 at 01:10:13 6A41485B4647290 wrote:
Charlie check out their wear rating on MX 15w-50w thats what I use. |
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Title: Re: Rotella T-6 5w-40 Synthetic oil useage on Drag Post by bill67 on 08/13/10 at 07:02:22 Its nice Charlie can re class oil the way he wants them instead of going by what they really are.I think I will re class the S40 and say its a 550. |
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Title: Re: Rotella T-6 5w-40 Synthetic oil useage on Drag Post by Charon on 08/13/10 at 07:19:51 I repeat, Bill, my user name is Charon. I have no idea where you dreamed up "Charlie." I also have no idea what you might mean by your inane last post. |
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Title: Re: Rotella T-6 5w-40 Synthetic oil useage on Drag Post by Oldfeller on 08/13/10 at 07:26:51 oooooh, de flamethrowers, they come out to play ..... whooosh !!! :o :o :o Tristle, tristle, trastle, trome ... time for this one to go home !!! |
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Title: Re: Rotella T-6 5w-40 Synthetic oil useage on Drag Post by bill67 on 08/13/10 at 07:32:32 5D767F6C71701E0 wrote:
Charon Klotz MX is a Group V oil,Its not what you would like it to be. |
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Title: Re: Rotella T-6 5w-40 Synthetic oil useage on Drag Post by Charon on 08/13/10 at 07:47:47 Bill, prove your statement by posting the link from Klotz's website that says it is Group V. Then remember that Group V is an "everything else" group which can include vegetable oils such as castor oil. |
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Title: Re: Rotella T-6 5w-40 Synthetic oil useage on Drag Post by Oldfeller on 08/13/10 at 07:54:12 Oh No, Mr Bill !!! Klotz is jest red food coloring and castor oil ??? ..... and where is the magic in that, boys and girls? I am sooooooo disappointed ..... :-[ :-[ :-[ signed ..... Gumby |
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Title: Re: Rotella T-6 5w-40 Synthetic oil useage on Drag Post by bill67 on 08/13/10 at 08:32:44 Red-line racing oil is a group V oil too. |
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Title: Re: Rotella T-6 5w-40 Synthetic oil useage on Drag Post by bill67 on 08/13/10 at 08:44:40 Ok I will tell you guys the truth Klotz is made from VIRGIN olive oil with the blood of a Englishman put in for color. |
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Title: Re: Rotella T-6 5w-40 Synthetic oil useage on Drag Post by Oldfeller on 08/13/10 at 11:28:57 Now don't you go be a pulling Mick into this here proper polite "limited engagement" flamethrower & machine gun oil |
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Title: Re: Rotella T-6 5w-40 Synthetic oil useage on Drag Post by BuckHMCC on 08/13/10 at 12:09:51 Oil thread wars sure are fun, but this one is even more so -- given that we're talking about a low state-of-tune, low horsepower, low rpm engine. Maybe 25 hp out of 39 cubic inches? My wife's Hyundai is more high strung than that and it gets bulk dino oil renewed every 5K miles (that exceeds the owner's manual recommendation). I full well expect it to go 200K miles without an oil-related problem. Who can tell us about a Savage/S40 engine breakdown that was only the fault of the oil? |
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Title: Re: Rotella T-6 5w-40 Synthetic oil useage on Drag Post by Oldfeller on 08/13/10 at 19:19:59 Nobody -- but they sure can tell you some examples of dead engines due to not having any oil at all in the crankcase. We do have some dead heads historically due to low oil pressure, but that wasn't the oil's fault -- the owner/operator ran the idle rpm below 1,000 RPM and starved the head bearings due to lack of oil pressure. Message there is USE OIL, keep it visible in the window at all times. Keep your idle RPM up over 1,000 rpm to have oil pressure up to the head at all times. Now if you really want to use a good oil, I'd recommend ...... ;D ;D ;D |
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