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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Starting issues /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1280633000 Message started by Rhyno on 07/31/10 at 20:23:20 |
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Title: Starting issues Post by Rhyno on 07/31/10 at 20:23:20 Ok all here is the skinny. I have replaced my starter with 1 from ebay thinking that was the problem after i replaced the the mian gaskets. The bike started once and was out of time. I reset timing by clymer's specifications and instructions. and now the starter selenoid and the decomp selenoid are activating but the motor does not turn over. the starter doesn't turn over. I just get clicking noises. I have rechecked timing and decomp has been readjusted just to be safe all electrical components are testing per clymer. so here is my question is there a way to test the starter like you can a car. take it off and take it to autozone lol. can it be jumped or is it just trash now? Is there something else I should check before buying a starter. |
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Title: Re: Starting issues Post by verslagen1 on 07/31/10 at 20:33:51 1st, did you have the stator cover off? there's a washer that jumps off before you get a look at it and most people put it back on the wrong shaft, locking up the starter. 2, you can operate the decomp lever with a screwdriver. and if it turns over, than that was it. 3, timing isn't adjustable so what do you mean? |
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Title: Re: Starting issues Post by ero4444 on 08/01/10 at 07:24:52 Try push-start. battery voltage? Water level? |
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Title: Re: Starting issues Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/01/10 at 07:28:54 You could pull the plug & see if itll spin over with the starter. Be a good time to do the PLug Door mod. |
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Title: Re: Starting issues Post by Routy on 08/01/10 at 08:16:58 Start w/ load testing the battery. At $16.99, no excuse for everyone not to have one http://www.harborfreight.com/catalogsearch/result/?category=&q=battery+load+tester Then clean all connections Then connect the starter directly to the/a battery (jumper cables) Then remove the starter and connect directly to a battery If all this is ok, check the engine ....seizure for why it won't turn |
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Title: Re: Starting issues Post by Rhyno on 08/04/10 at 20:03:18 ok guys, the timing i was refering to is the motor timing i didn't align the timing chain right the first time i put the motor back together, the battery voltage is as it should be at 12-13 volts. fresh charge. havent tried to push start didn't think it was possible will give it a try. and the motor itself doesn't turn over at all. i get a clicking from the decomp seleniod and from the starter seleniod. but nothing else. starter doesn't turn and neither does the motor. I get no spark on the spark plug when tring to test spark. but I don't think I would if nothering is turning to provide spark. |
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Title: Re: Starting issues Post by Rhyno on 08/04/10 at 20:04:59 757A607B67617270787661130 wrote:
how would one connect the sterter to the battery. starter has only one post. not place to put second connection. |
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Title: Re: Starting issues Post by Rhyno on 08/04/10 at 20:05:55 706F696E73744575457D6F63281A0 wrote:
What is the plug door mod. is it in the forums? |
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Title: Re: Starting issues Post by LWRider on 08/05/10 at 13:10:19 6C564750513E0 wrote:
how would one connect the sterter to the battery. starter has only one post. not place to put second connection.[/quote] Hot is the starter terminal, ground is the engine frame (you can use the starter mounting bolt heads). |
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Title: Re: Starting issues Post by Rhyno on 10/18/12 at 17:57:48 Okay Starting over with this post the bike is a 2001 it has 8k in miles. I put a new starter in it I have tried to jump it from a car and I get a spark and nothing, I can turn the motor manually the stAtor cover was not removed, that I did not test. I tested the solenoid, and the battery and the CID box. Battery is over 12v using an multimeter. It doesn't drop under a load because the starter never turns. The decomp solenoid activates and I get the starter selenoid clicks one time. But nothing else happens. No mods. I did try to push start it a few years back on the original posting but not any close by hills to help with that. I haven't checked the spark plug although that is new as well but if nothing turns over the coil won't generate spark will it? |
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Title: Re: Starting issues Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/18/12 at 20:51:43 Bypass all switches & wiring, get the plug out, so the decomp isnt needed. Pull the hot wire off the starter & put a wire under the nut, hook a hot wire to it, then, strike a ground on the starter motor. Prove the starter Works. |
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Title: Re: Starting issues Post by Rhyno on 10/21/12 at 09:56:01 Ok will try that today thanks Justin, I Tried what you told me Justin, and nothing happened. I took the starter out and hooked it to my cars battery and it engaged. so where do i go from here, oh i have 2 extra starters lol i tried the ones i was told were bad and they engaged as well, i took a socket and was able to turn the motor by hand pretty easily so its not locked up either????? |
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Title: Re: Starting issues Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/21/12 at 17:23:32 NOw, you put a volt meter on the hot wire that feeds the starter & Hit the GO button.. Or a test lite,, Anyone else have an idea? Ive been busy all day & Im about scorched mentally.. |
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Title: Re: Starting issues Post by SALB on 10/22/12 at 19:54:09 You mentioned you were in the engine. Forget the starter for a moment. Pull the Spark Plug and see if the engine will turn over two full revolutions by hand. Also make sure you've got the correct (length) spark plug. If all is good, double check the starter wiring, especially the Battery Ground. |
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Title: Re: Starting issues Post by Rhyno on 11/01/12 at 13:19:19 ok guys i tested the starter and all is good, the starter does turn the motor, i have had to use a car battery. the selonod still engages. Could the CDI be bad, or maybe the rectifier. Just some thoughts i hooked everything back up and i recieved the same problem mentioned before. Starter is good, Battery is good too, selenoid clicks. I retried to test starter on the bike with everything hooked up andit still just clicks, i accidentally left the cdi unplugged and still same outcoome, does that mean CDi is bad? or is there an underlying problem. I will continue to troubleshoot using manual. any other ideas would be helpfull |
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Title: Re: Starting issues Post by verslagen1 on 11/01/12 at 14:13:25 cdi doesn't have anything to do with 'starter clicking' remove sparky, try starter, does it spin? |
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Title: Re: Starting issues Post by Cavie on 11/01/12 at 15:05:01 CDI has to do with the electronics of running the motor. Not running the starter. If the starter runs on the bench then you need to check the starter switch. If the selonoid is clicking that means the switch is working. Check the voltage at the battery. It must be OVER 12.6. If it is, take it to a garage and have it load tested. Put it back in and check the voltage at the battery and at the selonoid on both sides. Needs to be over 12.6 at both places. Next check it at the starter. If that works the next thing is to see if the starter is engaging with the motor correctly. I haven't had mine apart so I don't know what the starter engages with. As somone said, put the correct spark plug in and turn over the motor. If it doesn't turn over the starter isn't gonna do it either. |
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Title: Re: Starting issues Post by Rhyno on 11/01/12 at 15:49:26 32213637282523212A75440 wrote:
the Starter isnt clicking. When all is Connected it doesnt do any thing. I had the battery tested at autozone and its good, the starter turns the motor but no ignition is occuring. yeah i can take out spark plug and the motor will turn |
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Title: Re: Starting issues Post by HondaLavis on 11/01/12 at 16:07:00 What method did you use to test the solenoid? |
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Title: Re: Starting issues Post by verslagen1 on 11/01/12 at 16:38:12 5F657463620D0 wrote:
When you get your story straight let me know. |
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Title: Re: Starting issues Post by Cavie on 11/01/12 at 18:14:50 ok guys i tested the starter and all is good, the starter does turn the motor OK, starter is working and motor is turning over :). Now remove the spark plug and lay it on the top of the fins. Leave the coil wire attached. Hold the plug down tight. Turn the motor over using the starter and see if you have spark at the end if the plug. :-/ |
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Title: Re: Starting issues Post by Rhyno on 11/01/12 at 18:45:51 i do not have a neutral light, is there something in that. |
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Title: Re: Starting issues Post by oldNslow on 11/02/12 at 05:38:46 506A7B6C6D020 wrote:
Not being sarcastic here. Just trying to help. BEFORE you do anything else, try this. Transmission in neutral - Sidestand up - Clutch lever pulled in. Engine cut off switch on. Hit the starter button and tell us EXACTLY what happens. |
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Title: Re: Starting issues Post by Rhyno on 11/02/12 at 19:08:39 sorry for my poor english ,the starter is fine, my original problem remains. i hit the start button with the cdi attached and the decomp selonoid activates and the selenoid clicks or activates. but the starter will not turn over or turn the motor.with all electrical connected. If i hook the battery up and jump all other electrical as specified in earlier in thread by hooking stright to the starter it turns and the motor turns but i have no spark whatsoever. i tested the ignition coil today and got the reading 22k ohms in resistance which is within spec per clymer. i tested the soleniod per clymer as well i dont remember the readings at the moment but they were within specifications of clymer. 657661607F7274767D22130 wrote:
When you get your story straight let me know.[/quote] |
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Title: Re: Starting issues Post by Rhyno on 11/02/12 at 19:09:40 sorry starter does not click and no sir, i dont get any spark 5E4D5A5B44494F4D4619280 wrote:
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Title: Re: Starting issues Post by verslagen1 on 11/02/12 at 19:18:59 sorry for getting pissed, but you got us chasing our tails with incorrect info. Now we're getting somewhere. let's work on getting the starter to spin. starters works when you directly jump it with the battery. several people just recently have had issues with the decomp controler. but lets check the starter button 1st. what year is your bike? |
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Title: Re: Starting issues Post by Rhyno on 11/02/12 at 20:56:43 not a problem, sorry for being random. im a little ADD in my writing. the bike is a 2001. as far as the starter switch it does activate the solenoid and decomp lever on the head as well as the decomp soleniod. 5B485F5E414C4A48431C2D0 wrote:
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Title: Re: Starting issues Post by verslagen1 on 11/02/12 at 22:25:02 69534255543B0 wrote:
let's check the safeties and/or bypass them for now. clutch safety, at the handlebar, left side, underneath the lever is a connector with 2 wires, either pull the back a little and short across both connectors with a wire. sidestand safety, take off seat, look for a green water tight connector, unplug it and short across the connector. now give it a try. |
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Title: Re: Starting issues Post by Rhyno on 11/03/12 at 12:26:27 263522233C3137353E61500 wrote:
let's check the safeties and/or bypass them for now. clutch safety, at the handlebar, left side, underneath the lever is a connector with 2 wires, either pull the back a little and short across both connectors with a wire. sidestand safety, take off seat, look for a green water tight connector, unplug it and short across the connector. now give it a try.[/quote] ok i unplugged the cluth safety swith and jumped that with a wire and upplugged the neutral stand switch as well again jumping that with a wire, no changes |
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Title: Re: Starting issues Post by verslagen1 on 11/03/12 at 13:25:37 looking like either a bad decomp controller or a bad relay. you'll need a volt meter, check the relay voltage. one of the big wires will have it all the time. one of the small wires will have it when you push the start button. |
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Title: Re: Starting issues Post by oldNslow on 11/04/12 at 06:33:43 Rhyno, double check the fuses in the fuse holder under the seat. If I'm reading the schematic correctly, one of those fuses supplys +12v to the timers in the decompression controler. If the timers aren't getting power from there, AND from the starter switch, I don't think the starter relay will work correctly. It won't stay closed long enough to spin the starter. May not be your problem but it's a simple check. |
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Title: Re: Starting issues Post by Rhyno on 11/08/12 at 14:39:21 1B2524283A2627490 wrote:
ok i check those they good, i get 12 volts across both thanks, it helps all part of the process. |
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Title: Re: Starting issues Post by Rhyno on 11/08/12 at 14:58:22 746770716E6365676C33020 wrote:
ok Vers what are you talking about the Starter selonoid is that the relay you are talking about ? If so i checked voltage of the positive lead, the big one and i get 13.6 Volts with the key in off position. with the key in the on position it comes out to 12.7 . as for the small leads on it i checked the yellow lead and i get 10.7v when i hit the start switch |
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Title: Re: Starting issues Post by Rhyno on 11/08/12 at 15:09:54 ok I was reading in the clymer manual. doing some other troubleshooting on the side of the neutral light not coming on. Sorry thurs is my day off so i tinker. i hooked a positive wire to the connecter for the guages and recived a neutral light. but with all connected properly no light, so i checked the neutral switch incased in the right side motor cover per clymer. it states ,to disconnect the single blue wire and touch it with positve lead of meter and then connect the neg lead to ground, so i did and i recieved a reading of 2.2 ohms so no continuity which means that it is bad so i have another part to replace lol |
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Title: Re: Starting issues Post by verslagen1 on 11/08/12 at 15:32:57 2.2 ohms is very low resistance, I would consider it good maybe just dirty contact or bad batteries in your meter. what's your meter read by itself? |
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Title: Re: Starting issues Post by verslagen1 on 11/08/12 at 15:35:40 1228392E2F400 wrote:
looks good to me. when you hit the starter button, what was the reading on the big wire of the relay? give the relay a smack with a plastic handle of the screwdriver, may be stuck. |
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Title: Re: Starting issues Post by Rhyno on 11/09/12 at 17:12:10 33203736292422202B74450 wrote:
The meter reads 0.000 just turning on. It s a fluke digital |
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Title: Re: Starting issues Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/09/12 at 18:15:08 665C4D5A5B340 wrote:
ok i check those they good, i get 12 volts across both thanks, it helps all part of the process. [/quote] You get 12 volts with one side of the meter grounded, from both legs of the fuse? If not, pull the fuse, set to Ohms, measure across the fuse legs, if its not Zero,, the fuse is toast |
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Title: Re: Starting issues Post by verslagen1 on 11/09/12 at 18:16:55 043E2F3839560 wrote:
The meter reads 0.000 just turning on. It s a fluke digital [/quote] ah, you gotta touch the leads together. |
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Title: Re: Starting issues Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/09/12 at 18:27:59 The Ohms function reads the resistance between the 2 leads. Testing the meter is touching the leads & seeing 0.000, or, if it has an audible function, you can set it there. If you have the meter on Ohms & connect it to power, you might hurt it, If you want to measure Volts, be sure you set the Function Dial to Volts & not Ohms. You bought a Fluke meter? Daaaang,, I wish I had one,, |
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Title: Re: Starting issues Post by oldNslow on 11/26/12 at 07:11:25 Hey Rhyno, where'd you go? Did you ever get your starter to work? If so how about letting us know what the problem turned out to be. |
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Title: Re: Starting issues Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/26/12 at 07:29:26 He may have discovered something way too painfully silly to say, got it goin & rode away,, |
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Title: Re: Starting issues Post by oldNslow on 11/26/12 at 07:57:48 26393F3825221323132B39357E4C0 wrote:
Could be. But I still wish he'd tell us. I'd never make fun of someone for doing something silly - done plenty of that myself - and whatever it was, it might keep someone else from doing the same thing. When you spend enough time wrenchin on stuff, doing stupid sh*t every now and then sort of comes with the territory. |
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Title: Re: Starting issues Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/26/12 at 08:14:58 Ohhh yeaa,,it happens.. |
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Title: Re: Starting issues Post by Rhyno on 11/28/12 at 13:10:54 Sorry guys took some time off of the project I was getting frustrated. Lol and no not yet she is still down. I am taking in CDI to shop tomorrow to have them check it. I'll let you know from there cause everything else hasn't worked to this point. Uggggh. Lol still no spark at the plug all else checks out ok. Question should the back of the CDI be smooth or bumpy? Mines bumpy. No metal sticking thru butt still very bumpy |
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Title: Re: Starting issues Post by oldNslow on 11/28/12 at 15:36:07 477D6C7B7A150 wrote:
Okay, just so I understand what's going on. At this point the starter is cranking the engine and your ONLY problem is no spark. Is that correct? |
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Title: Re: Starting issues Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/28/12 at 19:51:48 No metal sticking thru butt still very bumpy No metal sticking thru butt is a good thing, Who can know if No Spark is their only problem if theyve got no spark? A guy could have a hole in a piston & not know it till he gets spark & it still wont run, |
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Title: Re: Starting issues Post by oldNslow on 11/29/12 at 06:10:19 4C5355524F4879497941535F14260 wrote:
Point taken. What I was getting at though is that the original issue was that his starter wasn't cranking the engine. I just wanted to make sure that issue was fixed before moving on to why the bike wont run. Reading back through the posts I'm a little confused as to what is actually working and what isn't. |
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Title: Re: Starting issues Post by Rhyno on 11/29/12 at 08:21:31 7B4544485A4647290 wrote:
Okay, just so I understand what's going on. At this point the starter is cranking the engine and your ONLY problem is no spark. Is that correct?[/quote] It Has the ability to turn the motor if jumping all electrical. The motor does turn if i hook the battery staight to the starter. otherwise no just hitting the electric start swictch all i get is clicks from the selenoid and the decomp unit activating. But in jumping from the battery to the motor does turn and i get no spark. Per all the suggestions i have checked all the components of the electrical system and concluded that all are fine or within specs per Clymer and my 3 great mentors of this site. I only ask about the CDI because i had a burnt regulator/rectifier on my CBR that when I puchased new was completely smooth on the bottom. And I know they are not the same thing But my Burnt Rectifier was completly bumpy on the bottom of the unit llike a golf ball. So I was guessing that the CDI looking the same could possibly be Bad as well. Thanks again guys for all your help. Just in case i forgot to tell you. |
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Title: Re: Starting issues Post by oldNslow on 11/29/12 at 09:50:21 Ok, based on your last reply the only thing we know for sure is that the starter is apparently operable but the original problem still isn't fixed. When you hit the start button with the ignition switch on, the cut off switch on and the clutch pulled in the starter solenoid clicks once and the starter doesn't spin. I hate to say this but I think you need to go back and re-check the starter solenoid. There is a procedure in the Clymers manual using an ohmmeter but for a quick check do this. Dissconect the cable from the stud on the starter. Set your voltmeter to the 20VDC range (or whatever is close on your particular meter. Clip the positive voltmeter lead to the starter cable and the negitive voltmeter lead to a good ground - one of the starter mounting bolts should work. Hit the start switch and read the voltage on the meter. It should be pretty close to whatever the battery voltage is. If the meter reads zero then the solenoid is not working. Also. If you are jumping the starter with an external battery - you car battery I think you said - I'm not sure the fact that the spark plug is not firing tells us anything. All you're doing is running the starter the same as if you had it off the bike and on a workbench. |
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