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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> my savage is dead. /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1280259303 Message started by danroot on 07/27/10 at 12:35:02 |
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Title: my savage is dead. Post by danroot on 07/27/10 at 12:35:02 the piston has a hole in it, one of the valves dropped into the cylinder and tore everything up. i had a new cam shaft in it, there was wear on the cam and the head/valve casing. it was having an issue with my top speed, then last saturday i lost power on the freeway, almost dumped the bike. it wouldnt start back up after that. after tearing the engine down, i found a hole in the piston and all the other issues i mentioned. ive put too much time and money into my savage to simply give up. but it does feel a little pointless to put any more money into it in its current state. i mean, its an 1987 with 20k miles. what the hell. is it time to pick up a sportster? i loved my savage, but i seemed to have nothing but problems over that last few years of owning mine. my mechanic friend says i should give up on it. he says that the savage is too underpowered and that running a 650 single at highway speed will eventually burn it out no matter what shape its in. what to do......... |
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Title: Re: my savage is dead. Post by Arnold on 07/27/10 at 12:41:03 Seems it is not made for constant highway speed, especially with the 4 speed. Wonder if the 5 speed engine can take it in the long run. Condolences, it sucks, for a couple of hundred bucks you may be able to find an engine right? |
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Title: Re: my savage is dead. Post by Hashbrown on 07/27/10 at 12:46:27 you prob could part it out and that would finance half the price of a newer 90's savage. i mean come on, the bike is freakin cheap. got a fully loaded 95' savage with 6k miles w tons of extras for 1k. you think you got problems now. go buy an HD and see what kind of hassels you run into. they say 95% of Harley's are still on the road...thats because the other 5% made it home ;D |
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Title: Re: my savage is dead. Post by Arnold on 07/27/10 at 12:57:12 I bought mine 2-3 weeks ago. From a dealer, 96 with 2k miles on it, top shape with a year of free maintenance and 6 months warranty for $1799. |
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Title: Re: my savage is dead. Post by Stimpy on 07/27/10 at 14:29:31 Get a cheap Intruder 750cc from the 90's, those things are like a savage on steroids! keep the savage for intruder parts, they share a bunch of parts. or maybe someone here wants it whole? good luck |
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Title: Re: my savage is dead. Post by danroot on 07/27/10 at 16:40:00 thing is, ive put about 2000 into it so far. it stings a bit to see it go this way. |
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Title: Re: my savage is dead. Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/27/10 at 16:49:05 You can drop another load in it & still have an old savage, or get another bike & sell this one or keep it for parts. |
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Title: Re: my savage is dead. Post by danroot on 07/27/10 at 18:05:42 worst part is i never got a picture of it after the "makeover" |
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Title: Re: my savage is dead. Post by babyhog on 07/27/10 at 18:50:00 C'mon, you gotta fix it now! |
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Title: Re: my savage is dead. Post by james may on 07/27/10 at 20:48:50 would buy a parts bike and do a motor swap.. btw I'm drunken.sportster are top heavy.. heavy in general.. get a dyna if you want a harley.. at leastt they have power and attitude.. but I like the motoor swap idea,, who mentioned that ?? me.. yeah I'm awesome.. kickass.. and all. peace out |
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Title: Re: my savage is dead. Post by photojoe on 07/27/10 at 23:58:10 Sorry to hear about the damage. I have to admit, if my '87 needed that much repair work, I would probably part it out and buy another bike. Always liked the Intruder 1400, and they're cheap enough now. Would probably go that route instead of a Sportster. I've been fortunate; bought my '87 Savage a little over 2 years ago with a bit over 12,000 miles and she's up to 23,000 now. The only money i've put into it was just a battery and a few bits and pieces. I'm amazed at how well it still runs. One thing I noticed with my bike is some non-oem sealant between the jug. Means someone was in there at some point. Have no idea what was done, but whatever they did, they seem to have done a good job. Biggest hassle I had with any of my bikes was my early '84 Sportster. Blew a rod. Now that was a freaking disaster. Back in, I think, '89 that was, and cost me $1500 back then. |
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Title: Re: my savage is dead. Post by LANCER on 07/28/10 at 01:48:23 I am really sorry to hear about your misfortune, that is a bummer for sure I am picking up a 90's model today with only 8k on the engine if interested in the engine send me a pm how much wear did you have on the cam ? can you get a close up photo ? think its good to use ? your mech doesn't think a 650 single is capable of highway riding ? ? because they are too under powered ? ? is this guy out of diapers yet ? or has he been drinking the cool-ade ? |
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Title: Re: my savage is dead. Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/28/10 at 03:20:39 Theres nothing about the bike that just CANT do the highway. Its plenty big & gutsy enough. An engine swap would be a grand idea, if tyou can do it for the right $$$. Looks like Lancer is willing to help out, but youre most likely gonna have to send him your old cam. Hes a funny guy, Lancer is. Got him a cam fettish of some sort. |
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Title: Re: my savage is dead. Post by Routy on 07/28/10 at 05:25:07 The funny part is that you can't buy a different brand bike that works for you. Or,.... if you can, then maybe that is what you should have had in the first place. After not riding for many years I thought if I ever ride again, I'd like a Harley,.....till I sat on one,.... and leaned it to one side a bit, :o...it was then I realized it wasn't ever going to happen. After hitting the shops for months, nothing but a 250 fit me (this old guy) untill I sat on a Sav40. A ride, and an hour later, I owned it. But sorry to hear about your major engine failure. I believe its the first I've heard in a year here. One way or another ya gotta fix it,.....?? |
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Title: Re: my savage is dead. Post by Stimpy on 07/28/10 at 06:18:33 Allright, I vote rebuiiiild!! 8-) dude, fix your bike and be happy with it, i have a 125cc right now and i can't wait to go ride it everytime I run out of milk! David Lynch once said: "My cow is not pretty, but it is pretty to me" and that, my friend, is what life is all about! ...it's settled then, time to get your hands dirty here are some links to get ya' started. - 1/2 an engine $199 http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Suzuki-Savage-LS650-650-ENGINE-MOTOR-BLOCK-TRANNY-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem5636c2bc79QQitemZ370285919353QQptZMotorcyclesQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories - cylinder and piston $99 http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Suzuki-Savage-650-LS650-CYLINDER-PISTON-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem1e5a50fe43QQitemZ130364276291QQptZMotorcyclesQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories - just the cylinder $29.95 http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Suzuki-LS650-Savage-650-CYLNDER-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem1e58457743QQitemZ130329966403QQptZMotorcyclesQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories maybe somebody here has a couple of used valves, better hurry up and post your wishlist to santa, he might just be a member here. |
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Title: Re: my savage is dead. Post by Hashbrown on 07/28/10 at 06:40:34 272A25282E39797C4B0 wrote:
i call shinanagans on your mech. just took out my friends savage and hit 90 mph on the road and she was behaving just fine. just some good vibrations |
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Title: Re: my savage is dead. Post by danroot on 07/28/10 at 11:40:05 i could get some pics of the cam for you, probably tonight or tomorrow. what year is the engine you picked up? would it fit in my 87? 5A57585553440401360 wrote:
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Title: Re: my savage is dead. Post by Arnold on 07/28/10 at 11:52:59 Gentlemen, we can rebuild him... |
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Title: Re: my savage is dead. Post by BurnPgh on 07/28/10 at 15:02:40 i got a stock piston for you. |
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Title: Re: my savage is dead. Post by danroot on 07/28/10 at 15:54:27 if i go through with it, im going with a big bore. 7047405C62555A320 wrote:
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Title: Re: my savage is dead. Post by LANCER on 07/28/10 at 16:34:52 76737C607D7D66120 wrote:
All engines fit everything ... Savage wise. The bike I got today turned out to be an '86 model but appears to be in very good condition. Will know more tomorrow when I have time to tinker and check stuff out. Do you want the whole engine if all is well ? I will need to get it to run for a good test before I would pronounce it good to go. Otherwise it comes apart for individual parts. |
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Title: Re: my savage is dead. Post by danroot on 07/28/10 at 17:39:40 i think if i rebuild it, i might go with a later date on the engine. id like to see how a 5th gear feels. |
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Title: Re: my savage is dead. Post by ero4444 on 07/28/10 at 18:17:06 dude (I don't use that lightly) I can't tell any difference between 4th and 5th. Feels the same, sounds the same - every time I think "why?" and figure it's just marketing. |
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Title: Re: my savage is dead. Post by Arnold on 07/28/10 at 18:19:13 Supposedly the 5th gear vibrates less at highway speed. I have 5 speed and it still vibrates but I've never tried the 4 speed ones. |
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Title: Re: my savage is dead. Post by BurnPgh on 07/28/10 at 19:13:47 5th is useless. |
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Title: Re: my savage is dead. Post by bill67 on 07/28/10 at 19:20:34 I would say 4th is useless. |
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Title: Re: my savage is dead. Post by LANCER on 07/29/10 at 03:17:05 YEP ... MARKETING |
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Title: Re: my savage is dead. Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/29/10 at 04:38:30 Didnt the old 4 speeds actualy have a higher final gear`ratio than the 5s do? |
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Title: Re: my savage is dead. Post by John_D FSO on 08/03/10 at 02:39:34 4E5157504D4A7B4B7B43515D16240 wrote:
From everything I've read, that seems to be the consensus. Kinda ironic if the 4sp turns less rpms than the 5sp. ;D |
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Title: Re: my savage is dead. Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/03/10 at 04:56:44 Dear`Savage historians: Whatyear did we get the 5 speed? Whatyear did the EPA mandates create the need for the leaner jets? |
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Title: Re: my savage is dead. Post by Arnold on 08/03/10 at 05:12:52 5th gear started on 96 models. |
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Title: Re: my savage is dead. Post by Hashbrown on 08/03/10 at 05:22:08 6B7E6566666F7E6F780A0 wrote:
i beg to differ, 5 gear started on 95 models ;D |
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Title: Re: my savage is dead. Post by Arnold on 08/03/10 at 05:26:09 Really? I have a 95 Savage but it's a 96 model so I thought I had one of the first 5th gear. Well I'll be darned. |
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Title: Re: my savage is dead. Post by Routy on 08/03/10 at 05:32:40 Justin, If you don't know, who does ? Amazing that an answer to that simple question is not well known on this site. I thought the 5sp was like an overdrive compared to the 4sp, and still believe it is. (till shown otherwise) Myself, I would not want any higher final than 5th gear. These engines stock are working hard enough at freeway speeds now, w/o actually TRYING to burn them up. :'( 5E4147405D5A6B5B6B53414D06340 wrote:
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Title: Re: my savage is dead. Post by Arnold on 08/03/10 at 05:38:41 Both bikes have the same top speed dont they? I usually shift to 5th around 40-45 mph. |
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Title: Re: my savage is dead. Post by james may on 08/03/10 at 05:52:15 Owners manual says you should be in 5th by like 35. I really don't notice a big difference. Lots of times I try to upshift when I'm already in 5th because 4th and 5th feel about the same and there's not much of change in rpm when ya shift to 5th. You should swap out for a Suzuki gsxr 1300(busa) motor and tranny 6 speed. That'd feel different. |
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Title: Re: my savage is dead. Post by Charon on 08/03/10 at 05:53:54 According to the article in the September 1996 Motorcycle Consumer News, in which the Savage was reviewed: "A quick comparison shows the old Savage turned 69.6 rpm per 1 mph in top gear, while the five-speed turns 67.5 rpm per 1 mph. Fourth gear had this bike spinning 72.9 rpm per 1 mph." My calculator multiplies those numbers times 60 to give 4176 rpm at 60 mph for the four-speed; 4050 for the five-speed in fifth; and 4356 for the five-speed in fourth. I can only quote what they said. |
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Title: Re: my savage is dead. Post by Arnold on 08/03/10 at 06:00:18 But it makes sense though, the 4th gear on the 5 speed should rev higher than the 4 speed at the same speed. |
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Title: Re: my savage is dead. Post by LS-Rich on 08/03/10 at 06:17:17 Here's what my Clymer's manual has for each models gear ratios. 1986-1988 1st gear 2.214 2nd gear 1.500 3rd gear 1.095 4th gear 0.875 1995-on 1st gear 2.333 2nd gear 1.578 3rd gear 1.142 4th gear 0.956 5th gear 0.884 If in fact both transmissions have the same primary drive ratio. The 4 speed does have a little higher gear ratio on the top end. When you go to http://www.gearingcommander.com/ it shows the primary drive ratio for the 99-03 being 1.81. Now that's for the 5 speed. I've been looking and looking for the primary drive ratio on the 4 speed and can't find one anywhere. I believe it is even higher yet. When I input the gear ratios the 4 speed has into gearing commander and leave the primary drive at the same as the 5 speed the chart doesn't jive with my actual numbers that my 4 speed actually does. When I input a little higher gear ratio into the primary drive box I start to get numbers that actually start to jive with the numbers my bike gets. I believe I have to go to 1.5 on the primary drive number to get it to match the numbers my 4 speed gets. So..... With all that being said... I believe the 4 speed is considerably higher geared than the 5 speed. IF.... That is If the numbers Gearing Commander has for the 5 speed primary drive is accurate. Just my two cents. |
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Title: Re: my savage is dead. Post by Charon on 08/03/10 at 06:20:09 The thing about '95 and '96 may be the difference between production date and model year. My '07 was actually produced in '06. The automotive industry is notorious for that practice, and the RV industry is worse. The RV industry purchases chassis from manufacturers, then assembles the RV on top. The vehicle may have an '06 chassis under an '08 RV, but even though the chassis is older it will be sold as an '08. The conventional definition of an "overdrive" transmission is one in which the output shaft turns faster than the input. By that definition the old four-speed had an overdrive fourth, and the newer five-speed has both fourth and fifth as overdrives. The unmentioned ratios are the primary drive ratios (engine to clutch) and the final drive ratios (drive to driven pulley). I believe the final ratio is the same on both bikes, but have been unable to actually find out. Clymer doesn't seem to mention either one. From other comments on the forum it appears the primary ratios are different, but until someone can actually count gear teeth on both models we may not know. |
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Title: Re: my savage is dead. Post by Routy on 08/03/10 at 06:44:03 Is the belt and belt pulleys the same size on 4sp and 5sp ? I suspect not :o |
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Title: Re: my savage is dead. Post by LS-Rich on 08/03/10 at 06:57:28 57584259454350525A5443310 wrote:
I got 23/68 on my 87 4 speed (just counted them). The Clymer manual says both 4 and 5 speed are the same. Anyone want to count them off a 5 speed to make sure? |
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Title: Re: my savage is dead. Post by LS-Rich on 08/03/10 at 07:10:57 6D786360606978697E0C0 wrote:
I usually shift to 4th around 70-75mph |
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Title: Re: my savage is dead. Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/03/10 at 08:44:29 Thereason I asked about the 4th to 5th gear trannies & whether or not it correlated with the jetting changes was to see if meeting the EPA requirements by jetting leaber forced them to redesign thetranny to maintain the top speed of the bike, with the smaller jets. Is that even possible? Need a historian ANDacarb tuner. |
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Title: Re: my savage is dead. Post by Routy on 08/03/10 at 09:26:44 They are the same 23/68 on my 5 speed. ----------------------------------------------------------- Quoted: I got 23/68 on my 87 4 speed (just counted them). The Clymer manual says both 4 and 5 speed are the same. Anyone want to count them off a 5 speed to make sure?[/quote] |
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Title: Re: my savage is dead. Post by LS-Rich on 08/03/10 at 10:04:02 The one thing that I really would like to know is what's the primary drive ratio on both models. Can't seem to find that information. From gearing commander it loads the 1.81 for the 5 speed. So I'm just going to assume that's correct. Would love to know if the 4 speed is the same. Anyone???????? |
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