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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Running on Empty? /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1278586147 Message started by daedalus on 07/08/10 at 03:49:07 |
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Title: Running on Empty? Post by daedalus on 07/08/10 at 03:49:07 Hello. So this is my first real mechanical endeavor and I decided while I had things apart I might as well do it all at once. Changed out rear tire. Dropped the oil, changed the cam chain tensioner out to verslavy (20.5mm out at 15,000). Drained the tank, changed out petcock to Raptor. Thought I should go ahead and do head plug replacement (and valve adjustment) since I had the leak and the part. So now I have 2 questions. 1) I can NOT get the valve timing inspection plug out (and I really dont have the $ and time to spend waiting on the ‘special tool’.) The bike is jacked up so I can rotate the rear wheel. Can I do the “put it in 5th and remove spark plug” method of finding TDC with the oil out? 2) When I drained the gas tank I also drained the carb to be sure I didnt have metal bits in it, etc. With the raptor petcock now installed will I have trouble starting the bike with the carb empty? (No prime setting.) Thanks for your time! -J. |
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Title: Re: Running on Empty? Post by prechermike on 07/08/10 at 04:21:18 Everybody here has a special tool to take the plug out. Some folks use an old brake pad, others take a stiff putty knife and grind the corners off to make it fit, I think someone else used a metal cover for an electrical box. I used a special two part tool: http://hphotos-snc3.fbcdn.net/hs401.snc3/24361_108969635785456_100000172610173_246839_6235341_n.jpg Hinge and vise grips! I would think you could do the in gear and tire thing, but there are ways to get the plug out. You should not have trouble starting, when you put the petcock to "on" the fuel will flow, like prime did on the stock petcock. Just give it a minute or two to get the gas to the carb. I am sure someone else will come along with more or better advice. You certainly started big for your "first mechanical endeavor" It feels god to do things yourself, doesn't it? :D |
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Title: Re: Running on Empty? Post by earlytimz on 07/08/10 at 05:59:37 Good advice, Mike... Also, if you choose to rotate the engine via the rear wheel, you aren't gonna hurt anything by not having oil in it. Don't start the engine without oil, but hand rotating won't hurt a thing. Congrats for deciding to jump in and do all this yourself! It is very rewarding & saves a ton of $$$ in the process. Where are the pics?? LoL |
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Title: Re: Running on Empty? Post by spacepirates on 07/08/10 at 06:28:02 The very expensive, very special, hard to find tool i use is an old round-style bottle opener, the kind that "loops" over the bottlecap. I stick one end in the slot, stick a screwdriver through the loop and twist. works well for me. also convenient for enjoying a brew or two while working ;D Now this is just what i think, and i'm not sure of it, but i *think* you have to have the timing plug cover off to line up the timing marks during the valve adjustment. finding TDC is only the first bit, the timing marks hit maybe a 1/4 turn or so after. But again, i'm not sure of that. Again on something i *think*: the raptor is not vacuum driven, so setting it to on should allow fuel flow to fill up the carb bowl. this also means it is a good idea to shut it off when you shut the bike off. my raptor hasn't come in yet, so i can't promise that i'm telling you the truth. How was the cam chain tensioner? that is next on my list for when the weather gets too nasty to ride. still kinda intimidated by it though... |
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Title: Re: Running on Empty? Post by prechermike on 07/08/10 at 06:43:59 Spacepirate has another cool version of the tool! :D We must be pretty smart around here. TDC was a little tricky to find, but just a little, and having more marks to look at was a help. He is also right about the raptor, I have had one for a while now. It works on gravity and not vacuum. Turn the fuel on and it flows down. I usually don't turn my raptor off, it is kind of a split around here of those that do and don't. The cam chain tensioner is not hard at all. I did it in a day, not working too hard and certainly not going fast. I bet could do it in a few hours now, that I know what I am doing. |
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Title: Re: Running on Empty? Post by earlytimz on 07/08/10 at 06:53:59 You don't need the timing marks to gap the valves. The most important thing is to make sure they're completely shut with no pressure on the rockers from the cam. Other than that, it doesn't matter what position the crank is in. You can rotate the engine, watch the valves open & close, then set your gap. Repeat for the other side. |
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Title: Re: Running on Empty? Post by bill67 on 07/08/10 at 08:03:51 Thats what I would think too Early,Years ago you set them on cars with the motor running. |
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Title: Re: Running on Empty? Post by ralfyguy on 07/08/10 at 19:34:41 22292C2C7677400 wrote:
I heard about that too, but I just cannot picture how this works. I didn't say it doesn't work, just can't imagine it. What about the oil spewing with the valve covers off. And if the tappets or rockers or whatever going up and down, when do you now it's right? And what about doing this when the engine is cold? With it running it'll get constantly hotter, and then it's getting looser. You readjust to compensate, and then the next time the engine is cold, the gaps are too tight. It just doesn't seem to make any sense. I did it on my S40 and I just kept trying with the gauge and after countless tries I thought it's good enough. I was never positive about it being too tight or too loose. |
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Title: Re: Running on Empty? Post by ralfyguy on 07/08/10 at 19:38:57 34272A203F21333F460 wrote:
I heard about that too, but I just cannot picture how this works. I didn't say it doesn't work, just can't imagine it. What about the oil spewing with the valve covers off. And if the tappets or rockers or whatever going up and down, when do you now it's right? And what about doing this when the engine is cold? With it running it'll get constantly hotter, and then it's getting looser. You readjust to compensate, and then the next time the engine is cold, the gaps are too tight. It just doesn't seem to make any sense. I did the valve adjustment on my S40 when cold in the morning and I just kept trying with the gauge and after countless tries I thought it's good enough. I was never positive about it being too tight or too loose. [/quote] |
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Title: Re: Running on Empty? Post by Digger on 07/08/10 at 21:34:42 3035313035382127540 wrote:
If it were me, I'd try to get that plug out. Here's what I've used in the past: http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee201/Digger109/LS650/ValveTimingInspectionPlugTool-Washe.jpg It is a 2 1/2" OD flat washer. I ground one edge thin enough to fit into the plug. I clamped it into the jaws of a Vice-Grip to use it. It worked great! Good luck! |
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Title: Re: Running on Empty? Post by verslagen1 on 07/08/10 at 22:27:30 I have a few of these around... http://verslagen.savageriders.com/ValveAdj/DSCN0487.JPG |
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Title: Re: Running on Empty? Post by Serowbot on 07/08/10 at 23:47:35 ...stock Savage footpegs look like over-played accordions... :-?... Versy's tool, is an old brake pad, by the way... ;)... |
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Title: Re: Running on Empty? Post by Tom K on 07/09/10 at 05:04:32 Must be a Colorado thing. Same tool as mine! ;) 4F626C6C6E790B0 wrote:
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Title: Re: Running on Empty? Post by bill67 on 07/09/10 at 05:38:20 687B767C637D6F631A0 wrote:
I heard about that too, but I just cannot picture how this works. I didn't say it doesn't work, just can't imagine it. What about the oil spewing with the valve covers off. And if the tappets or rockers or whatever going up and down, when do you now it's right? And what about doing this when the engine is cold? With it running it'll get constantly hotter, and then it's getting looser. You readjust to compensate, and then the next time the engine is cold, the gaps are too tight. It just doesn't seem to make any sense. I did the valve adjustment on my S40 when cold in the morning and I just kept trying with the gauge and after countless tries I thought it's good enough. I was never positive about it being too tight or too loose. [/quote] [/quote] You saw the oil running but it didn't plash up and out. |
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Title: Re: Running on Empty? Post by Charon on 07/09/10 at 05:49:18 I did the valve adjustment on a 1952 Chevy six, many moons ago. The valves were to be adjusted with the engine hot, and running. Get the engine hot (normal operating temp per the gauge). Remove the valve cover and start the engine. The oil didn't splash out, but there was a mist or spatter. Slide the feeler into the gap between the valve and the rocker. This was made easier by pressing the rocker against the lifter with a finger to take up the clearance on the side away from the valve and adjuster. You turned the adjuster until the feeler gauge slid with just a little drag when the valve was closed. It wouldn't move while the valve was open, because of the pressure of the spring. The only difficult part was keeping the screwdriver in the slot on the adjuster while the adjuster was moving. In some ways it was easier, because you just moved from valve to valve and got the job done, instead of adjusting, moving the engine, and repeating. Then somebody invented hydraulic valve lifters. |
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Title: Re: Running on Empty? Post by bill67 on 07/09/10 at 05:55:29 Charon got one right I did my 1949 chevy the same way |
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Title: Re: Running on Empty? Post by earlytimz on 07/09/10 at 06:50:29 Adjusting SBC valves while running you use these special little tabs (can't remember whatcha call 'em, they always reminded me of the old timey pull-off beer can tabs) They slip over the pushrod end of the rockers & basically deflect the oil being shot out of the ends of the pushrods. With engine running, loosen each adjuster one at a time until it starts to "clack clack clack". Tighten down until quiet, then go another 3/4 turn... Next... There was still much potential for an oil spill, but nothing like the one down in the guff!! |
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Title: Re: Running on Empty? Post by ralfyguy on 07/09/10 at 10:31:06 I couldn't imagine doing that on a Savage ;D |
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Title: Re: Running on Empty? Post by Serowbot on 07/09/10 at 11:08:34 I used to adjust the valves on my 69' mustang while was running... Kinda' fun, really... ;D... |
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Title: Re: Running on Empty? Post by bill67 on 07/09/10 at 11:23:06 7E687F627A6F62790D0 wrote:
How fast were you running when you adjusted them. |
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Title: Re: Running on Empty? Post by Serowbot on 07/09/10 at 11:33:32 ;D ;D ;D... |
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Title: Re: Running on Empty? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/09/10 at 11:37:58 I adjusted some valves ona car when I was a youg guy. It was running, but I didnt have those cool little tabs to block the oil squirting around. Made a mess, but got the valves set.. |
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