SuzukiSavage.com /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Car subframe based Savage hauler /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1278247724 Message started by Oldfeller on 07/04/10 at 05:48:44

Title: Car subframe based Savage hauler Post by Oldfeller on 07/04/10 at 05:48:44 I want to pull my Savage behind my car when coming and going to our various Savage meets.   This preserves all my limited leg/foot hours for bike riding and allows me to travel at night comfortably, etc etc The thought is to rig a Harbor freight bike tire holder such that it hangs from the car's steel subframe (from the towing hooks)  and is kinda low to the road with outriggers on each side to tie the bike off to to keep it side to side stable. http://www.harborfreight.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/370x/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/i/m/image_5312.jpg First choice is to mount the bike backwards, rear tire restrained to the holder, foot pegs and frame tied to the outriggers and handlebars tied so they point outwards with a small amount of bungee cord tensioned free motion so the front tire can rotate slightly to follow the car around a turn.   This way two guys can easily pick the butt end of the bike up and drop it in the wheel carrier recess and NO REMOVAL OF BELT OR CHAIN IS REQUIRED.   (the front tire will see forces and loads in line with what it normally sees when carrying the weight of a person) (Side mounted idea was killed by low tounge carry capacity of the car in question) Alternate ideas would be appreciated, as well as spotting a cheap motorcycle carrier, etc.

Title: Re: Car subframe based Savage hauler Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/04/10 at 06:44:07 A receiver type hitch, like the one that holds the bike across, but, using the HF wheel holder mounbted on the "stinger" that plugs in it seems like a good start to me. Id look at hinging the thing so you could roll the bike backwards into it & lock the wheel into it, then, using a lever in a receiver welded onto to the wheel chock mount, raise it into position & lock it. Pull lever out & toss in car. Just over 1/2 the weight of the bike on the car, one man load/unload. Might have to roll it back onto a foot long ramp to get the rear wheel lined up on the  wheelchock, but I think that approach would be doable & cheap & stable, but would require some welding. & of course, a couple arms poking out to tie off to so it doesnt lean over.

Title: Re: Car subframe based Savage hauler Post by Oldfeller on 07/04/10 at 07:00:12 No hitch, Justin.   No distinct frame to mount the hitch to, other than two towing hooks coming out of a unibody construction. It's a modern car .... 1990 Acura Legend

Title: Re: Car subframe based Savage hauler Post by Charon on 07/04/10 at 07:06:01 I don't know what kind of car you have, nor what its weight ratings might be. But I think I personally would prefer to put the bike on a trailer. Carrying the whole bike on the rear of the car will add most of 500 pounds (400 for the Savage, then add the carrier and receiver hitch) a good foot behind the bumper. I saw a one-wheel carrier years ago, but know little about it. Still, that would add most of 300 pounds aft of the bumper (rear wheel is over half the weight of the bike, plus the hitch and mounting assembly). The one-wheel carrier I saw carried the front wheel and allowed the rear to trail, which used the steering head of the bike for the pivot and reduced the weight on the car. That also rotated the wheel "forward" which might or might not matter with directional motorcycle tires. I do not know whether they suggested removing the chain. Most motorcycles (but not the Savage)also drive the speedometer and odometer from the front wheel so carrying the front would not rack up any undriven miles. Seems to me a person could find a usable trailer fairly inexpensively. There is, of course, the annual license fee for the trailer. A flat-bed trailer could be used for other purposes, as well. A used boat trailer, minus the boat, could have a channel bolted to it to carry the bike. With an assistant the winch on the boat trailer could easily pull the bike up onto the channel. Tongue weight is usually about 10% - 15% of the total, so the weight on the car would probably be about 100 - 150 pounds. Added: two more posts appeared while I was typing. Be advised those two hooks are not designed for towing. They were put there so the car could be chained to the deck on the ship that brought it here.

Title: Re: Car subframe based Savage hauler Post by Oldfeller on 07/04/10 at 07:12:56 Let's try to avoid unnecessary trailer license and (expensive) hitch mounting costs. Car is a 1990 Acura Legend and is only rated for 120 pound tounge weight even if I added a welded in place hitch ($300+)  so that rules out the parallel bar approach and swings us back to the single wheel carrier method. The steel towing hooks are referred to in the owner's manual as towing hooks and they are the ONLY substantial pieces of steel to the whole shebang, unless you reach way up past the rear wheel to get to the hoisting rails under each side (where the maintenance lifts rest to pick the car up on a hoist) Trailers cost too much as they require a hitch and a yearly license.

Title: Re: Car subframe based Savage hauler Post by Charon on 07/04/10 at 07:21:11 Unfortunately, there is no way to carry the weight of either end of your Savage and still stay under the 120 pound weight limit. And that doesn't even allow for the weight of the carrier. Another approach exists, but it still requires the trailer hitch on the car. Many RVers tow a car behind their motorhomes. The dolly they use carries one end of their car. It could just as easily carry one end of a motorcycle. Neat trick there, the dolly doesn't require a license or tag, because it cannot really be used for anything else except towing another vehicle. The dolly could easily carry the whole motorcycle, but that might run it afoul of the "no license" rule.

Title: Re: Car subframe based Savage hauler Post by jef.savage on 07/04/10 at 07:21:43 I have one of these, without the tie down bar.  The bumpers on my jeep work fine for tie down.  I used it to get the bike home when I bought it, only about 6 miles.  I used it to haul my S50 about 15 miles to my sons house.  Tied down from the handle bar ends, they twisted down and dented the tank going around a tight corner.  Next time I tied down from the 3tree and had no problem.  Since the speedo runs off the transmission it shouldn't know you're moving as long as you're in neutral.  Someone who knows the drive line better than me may want to comment on spinning the belt and pulleys while there's no oil flowing  through the engine.  Seems like it shouldn't be a problem to me. http://www.prohoists.com/Motorcycle_Tow_Dolly_Carrier_Trailer_Hitch The carriers that carry the bike transversely behind the vehicle require a BIG SUV at least.

Title: Re: Car subframe based Savage hauler Post by Oldfeller on 07/04/10 at 07:31:26 Jeff, putting the front wheel in the carrier and letting the engine and tranny spin in neutral isn't a good idea because their is no forced oil flow to lube these spinning shafts, gears & components as the engine isn't running to pump that oil, yet they will see all the wear and motion of all the miles running "dry". I would put my rear tire in the holder (up in the air) and let my front tire free wheel down the road.   This requires the bike's frame get triangulated/restrained at several points along each side and the handle bars be restrained with a little bit of bungee controlled free motion to accommodate turning radius effects. I have no bumper to grab to, jest some flexible bumper looking plastic .... I am sort concerned that the rear wheel locked in the carrier is gonna get jacked around some bouncing on down the road  ......  straight won't be the issue, turns and bumps will be the issue. If I could pivot the low mounted wheel chock on a clevis pin hitch then the bike could be tied up all straight and rigid and the clevis pin hitch would do all the bouncing/rotating/binding actions, not the bike's wheels and frame fighting each other.

Title: Re: Car subframe based Savage hauler Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/04/10 at 07:37:26 Im not really seeing a way around a hitch, unless you are up for some fab work. Maybe from a junk yard. Cars w/ hitches get totalled, IDK if they pull hitches off when they do, tho. 120 pound tongue weight sure seems minimal. Id be willing to bet that a guy could get away with more as long as he was careful to not allow the car to go over stuff too fast & create a hammer effect on the downstroke. Id bet thats why the limit is so low, because people allow things to go up & down hard enough to cause the G forces to amplify the tongue weight to the point of bending stuff & theres no way theyre gonna say its a 3oo pound limit, because the lawyers would have a fit.

Title: Re: Car subframe based Savage hauler Post by Routy on 07/04/10 at 07:38:08 Seems I could get a receiver mounted no harder than to get that wheel carrier mounted secure enough to carry over 200 lbs of rear MC weight. And you said 120 lb hitch weight max, so doesn't that rule out carring the rear wheel ? I'd go w/ a small trailer,.....they are license free in Ca and Or I know.

Title: Re: Car subframe based Savage hauler Post by Oldfeller on 07/04/10 at 07:44:15 Justin & Routy have a point there -- if you believe the 120 lb tounge weight restriction there isn't any way to do anything "legally" as half the weight of the bike is 200+ lbs ....

Title: Re: Car subframe based Savage hauler Post by Charon on 07/04/10 at 07:50:48 Towing the bike backwards leads to another "gotcha." The steering geometry makes the front wheel "want" to center itself, going forward. It makes the front wheel "want" to flop to one side going backward. You might have difficulty in restraining it to center and yet allowing it to track around turns.

Title: Re: Car subframe based Savage hauler Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/04/10 at 07:54:32 If its floppy at speed in reverse, & Im not so sure it would be, then Im thinking a few bungees on each bar end, set tight with the wheel turned fully & allowed some slack at center, would keep it from beating itself & still allow it to corner.

Title: Re: Car subframe based Savage hauler Post by Oldfeller on 07/04/10 at 07:54:44 By pivoting the rear wheel carrier the front end could be secured firmly, say by a piece of 2" thick wood that encompassed the two fork tubes and the main frame down-tube.

Title: Re: Car subframe based Savage hauler Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/04/10 at 08:00:30 Yep, thats a great answer. A pic of th subfram & tow hooks mite be helpful about now.

Title: Re: Car subframe based Savage hauler Post by Oldfeller on 07/04/10 at 08:12:01 I am at work until about 7:00 tonight so no pics today (double time for 12 hrs today -- whoopee !!) Towing hooks are slightly below wheel hub high and are only offset slightly inside the wheels (looking from back to front).  Hooks are actually steel plates with oblong hook holes cut inside them, not much very room for any extra drilled holes in the plates as it is mostly the oblong hole form.     I could put a large bolt through the plate oblongs trapping the construction of the carrier mount to the bottom of the trunk, but the surrounding sheet metal is thin and kinda flimsy when you get away from the hooks themselves ....   I need to jack the car up and lay under there and think about it a bit. Logically, when you hit a pothole or a speedbump you are gonna point load those mounting points with 500-600 pounds of force multiplied through a lever system.   Tons of effective force, in other words. It is gonna require a third strong mounting point nearer to the butt end (center) of the car to cut down on the potential lever effects.

Title: Re: Car subframe based Savage hauler Post by Charon on 07/04/10 at 09:56:35 Just for information, when I weighed my stock S40, I got 215 pounds rear, 172 front. I did have a Plexifairing III on it, which would add a couple of pounds in front. But the fuel tank had about 20 miles run out of it, so there was a loss of two or three pounds of fuel. Otherwise it was full fuel and all fluids installed. If I were going to tow it backwards, whether on one wheel or on a trailer, I'd remove the windshield.

Title: Re: Car subframe based Savage hauler Post by RidgeRunner13 on 07/04/10 at 09:58:31 You'll need to look under the plastic bumper cover to see what is there to brace from. Look were the bumper support mounts to see if you can build from there. You'll probably have to cut holes in the cover to access the mounts. I built my first 1-wheel towing setup about 1974 for my RD350. The 1st one was a pipe the axle would fit thru welded to a plate that bolted to my trailer hitch, using the ball to hold it. Removed the front wheel, slid a piece of wood in the caliper with a bungee  holding the lever, and put the axle in. Still had to tie the bars off & you could not back up worth a *#@^. But it worked, always removed the chain too. The next, for a Yamaha 650 twin, was similar but used pieces from an oil drum for the front tire to rest in. Still removed the chain. Never tried pulling one backwards. I think it would be easier on the bike & car to go foward. Is there enough room to take the belt loose & tie it out of the way? It would be easier if you can find some sort of hitch. 8-)

Title: Re: Car subframe based Savage hauler Post by Oldfeller on 07/04/10 at 10:04:31 It would be a lot easier to find a relative to borrow a truck from !!    ;)

Title: Re: Car subframe based Savage hauler Post by verslagen1 on 07/04/10 at 10:52:28 I have a front wheel tow cradle, don't like it cause it tips the bike in turns. you are going to have to build your own "receiver" then look at fleabay for ideas on the type of tow hitch you want.

Title: Re: Car subframe based Savage hauler Post by Jack_650 on 07/04/10 at 15:37:09 I don't see much good in hauling a bike around on one wheel for more than very short distances. We had a guy on here a few years ago who was wanting to do this same thing to haul his bike somewhere out west for a big move he was making with a girl friend and a small car. The general consensus back then was that it was a bad idea. I got my little 4'X4' you-put-it-together utility trailer for around $100 at a fall close-out sale. The bike rails that came for it cost almost as much and the back part isn't near wide enough for the stock 650 tire so the big jawed channel locks were used to bend the sides down.. I bolted a 7' or so 2"X10" down the middle of it and the bike rides on that. When I want to pull the trailer with the bike I remove the "bike board" and use it with just a plywood floor on  the trailer. A point here is that in MN you license/register small utility trailers once and it's forever. I forget what the annual cost was before we went that way, but it couldn't have been much. (I have a larger enclosed trailer that's licensed in the same manner.) You get a 40-60 lb. tongue weight that any car can handle. We've got a '07 Civic and there's a hitch that you can get. Honda will install or the directions don't look that hard. I've even thought of getting a GoldWing just to haul my Savage around with. Jack

Title: Re: Car subframe based Savage hauler Post by Ed L. on 07/04/10 at 18:43:15 You are going to get a lot of wheel flop by towing the bike backwards unless you figure out how to lock the front down tight. I used a hitch carrier to get my bike home after a flat rear tire and had a lot of problems with the front end slapping back and forth. The back end of the bike was strapped down real tight onto the carrier. The front end had straps tying the handle bars to the frame and untill I got them real tight the front tire would slap back and forth over 20mph. It was a little bit un-nerving having the bike jump back and forth when under tow. Don't know if it would work for you cause the rear tire of the bike carries most of the weight and you are limited as to how much weight you can carry.

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