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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Tapping Clicking When Hot /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1277483734 Message started by cursal on 06/25/10 at 09:35:34 |
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Title: Tapping Clicking When Hot Post by cursal on 06/25/10 at 09:35:34 Life is good in Savage Land, but I am concerned about a new noise in the head. It's not there when she first starts, but gets louder as she get hotter. Last "work" done on her was just swapping out the old paper air filter for a new K&N drop in. Noticed a difference right away in how she felt. That was 13 days ago. Had my valves adjust by my mechanic and new spark plug (stock replacement), new front and rear tires about 2000 miles ago. New petcock (stock) replaced about 1500 miles ago Oil Change and filter about 800 miles ago 3 days ago she took a extra crank rotation to start up...later that day she needed a jump to get started ??? Once I got home (10 miles, but had ridden 30 miles that day already) I really noticed that Tapping Clicking coming from the head. Thought it might be speedo or headlight at first, but no. That noise is loudest on the left (shifter) side near the top. My buddy pointed out that there was a little black smoke coming out of exhaust on hard throttle 4000-5000 rpms in neutral . We swapped the paper filter into it to test if that may be the oil off the K&N.... Seems that was the causing the black smoke. I did put the K&N back in. Next day I added some seafoam (first time) to the oil and gas and let her run for bit. No clicking until she got hot. This morning. Took her out for a spin on the freeway 14 mile loop. When I got back no abnormal clicking. Thought I would take her back out...but not 3 blocks from home and that sound was back. So home I came and that tapping Clicking was loud as first time I notice it. Guess 14 miles on the freeway wasn't long enough to get it hot enough. So I'm not sure what would cause this...loose value adjustment? |
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Title: Re: Tapping Clicking When Hot Post by verslagen1 on 06/25/10 at 10:02:53 The clearances vary as the engine gets hotter. It's been noted before that when real hot, the valves will be noisier. Also been said that the charging system is not capable of totally recharging the battery. If you've run it down, you need to put a charger on it. The decomp adjustment will affect the starting characteristics. Generally, if it's hard starting, loosen the decomp adjustment. As for your 14 mile trip, running it, shutting off, and sitting will heat soak the engine. In other words, hot parts of the engine will transfer the heat to the cool parts differently then when running. I doubt the black smoke coming out of the tail pipe was oil off the k&n. |
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Title: Re: Tapping Clicking When Hot Post by Serowbot on 06/25/10 at 10:06:14 Increased valve noise when hot, is normal on an air-cooled bike... Valves are adjusted good... If you can't hear them when it's hot,... they are too tight... Black smoke, is fuel,... you are a little rich at full throttle... or, there may be a bit too much oil on your k/n filter?... EDIT... not saying the oil on the k/n is burning, but that too much oil on the filter can restrict air and make you rich... causing blacck smoke... Oil burns gray/blue.... fuel burns black... |
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Title: Re: Tapping Clicking When Hot Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/25/10 at 11:54:49 The mechanic may have set the valves at the loosest setting & still be in spec. As the miles built up on mine, the valves need adjust less often. I also set them as close as i can to the tightest setting allowed. Takes longer to loosen up. The parts that smack into each other are work hardening, I think, as the miles add up. I hope you watched the valve adjust process. Paying to have that done is too costly & takes too much time outta the riding season. |
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Title: Re: Tapping Clicking When Hot Post by cursal on 06/25/10 at 21:31:17 Thanks for your input so far :) Sounds like It's nothing really then, just normal wear? I forgot to mention that when I got home I noticed at idle the rpm were around 1600-1700... that was high for what I normally see.. so I turned my fuel adjustment screw CW about 3/4 turn to get it down around 1400-1500 (normal) Tonight I go to test her out again. Key in and on choke out one click and put her in neutral. Fires up and I got get gear on while she warms up. a few minutes later I'm on and ready, but when I pushed the choke it she died. I messed with the screw a few more times to put back, but lost track of how far I was out. buy my 4th try on the starter button, throttle and the other hand on the mixture screw the battery went dead. So off comes the battery....which now fully charged again. How do you properly adjust the screw again? |
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Title: Re: Tapping Clicking When Hot Post by verslagen1 on 06/25/10 at 21:46:04 well I'm abit confused, cause the idle speed screw is just set to idle 1000 to 1200 rpm. And no one cares how many turns out it is. but if you're talking about the idle mixture screw... you should be turning that to get the idle down. Some one said to make sure your throttle cable has a little freeplay, which mine doesn't. 8-) A high idle when hot is not unusual, at least mine does it. Oil temp when I get home is about 170 to 180 °F And when you push the choke in, I normally have to have a hand on the throttle cause it will some time die. Idle mixture screw should be about 2 turns out, then you need to fine tune for your bike. |
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Title: Re: Tapping Clicking When Hot Post by cursal on 06/26/10 at 07:57:35 Sorry about that, I meant the brass screw next to the choke. Gonna head out and put the battery back on. Then I will screw the screw all the way in and then turn it out 2. Will adjust from there to find my bikes sweet spot. Thanks :) |
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Title: Re: Tapping Clicking When Hot Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/26/10 at 08:03:53 If I am gonna kill the choke, I always give the throttle a bip & make sure I keep it running as I change its intake of fuel. |
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Title: Re: Tapping Clicking When Hot Post by cursal on 06/26/10 at 08:49:04 76696F6875724373437B69652E1C0 wrote:
me too, just in my post above didn't make a difference I had the screw all the way out. haven't made it outside yet... |
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Title: Re: Tapping Clicking When Hot Post by cursal on 06/26/10 at 12:47:24 Cool, got her running again. After she started I left her running as I put all pieces back. Buy the time I was done the loud tapping was back (10 mins), this morning it was between 53-58 degrees, not very hot conditions. Strange how this tapping comes and goes. 14 miles yesterday and no loud clicking, 10 min this morning at idle and shows up....makes me think something is up. |
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Title: Re: Tapping Clicking When Hot Post by ralfyguy on 06/26/10 at 13:37:35 You may have added a little much seafoam. When I did it the first time i put a 1/4 of the can in the tank. Result was loud tapping at times. Apparently the bunch of seafoam cleaned the valves and seats squeaky clean and so it was louder with more metal hitting metal sound. After a couple of weeks it went away. Then I did it again and it returned the same way as before. It went away again after a couple weeks. I have no better explanation than this as it occured every time I added seafoam and got carried away a little. Ever since I either use none or just an ounce per tank and it never happened again. You tell me. PS: And YES, I had it shortly after startup and letting it idle. Driving for a while made it go away too, until the next cold start. |
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Title: Re: Tapping Clicking When Hot Post by cursal on 06/26/10 at 15:50:06 That might have been the case if I added the the seafoam BEFORE the noise started, but that was not the case ;) I added seafoam AFTER the noise was there for a day. I was hoping seafoam would help, but sounds like it would make it louder. Either way at 15,000 miles I think a little extra cleaning can't hurt. Never been any reports that seafoam damages engines. When I did add the seafoam I was meticulous with my syringe application of about 30 CCs in an ounce. 2 oz in the tank and a little less than 3 in the oil. I did notice that she does have a little (very liquid) oil on the header case, right side rear exit (the hole closet to the seat on exhaust side) The Savage is my only transportation and I ride daily so I'm pretty intune with her regular sounds, feel and over all appearance. On the Valve adjustment I totally trust my mechanic. He does it for a living and then builds and drag races bikes on the weekend. I think he says the one he built and wrenches does 160 in 1/4 mile and they have now added nitro! ...way off track now. Called and asked him too, says he's not perfect and possible something came loose, but he's not back till Monday night. How bad is it if it did and I rode around like that for a while? Thanks for all your input and helping me learn. :) Then more I know, the more I can do myself. |
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Title: Re: Tapping Clicking When Hot Post by Serowbot on 06/26/10 at 16:16:43 ... an air cooled engine, needs air... 10 minutes at idle is too long... valves will clack, even in cool weather, ... |
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Title: Re: Tapping Clicking When Hot Post by cursal on 06/29/10 at 12:20:58 Got over to my mechanic and we think this may be a cham chain adjuster issue. Maybe need a new one...and possible chain. If so Any recommendations on parts. VerSlavy cam chain tensioner I hear is the way to go, eh? Thanks! |
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Title: Re: Tapping Clicking When Hot Post by prechermike on 06/29/10 at 12:42:09 70666160727F130 wrote:
Yep, Verslavy is the way to go with that. Also, Lancer did have some super duper cam chains at one time, some coating that made them last longer or something. I think they came on a slow boat from China :D It seemed like it while everyone was waiting for one ;) Anyway, check with him about that. |
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Title: Re: Tapping Clicking When Hot Post by BurnPgh on 06/29/10 at 12:49:30 slow boat is an understatement. I was afraid it would take so long I opted to get an oem chain. As soon as I had the new one in the superchains showed up. >:( |
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Title: Re: Tapping Clicking When Hot Post by Digger on 07/06/10 at 20:59:20 677176776568040 wrote:
Oopers! I don't think it is a good idea to put Sea Foam into the crankcase. Our bikes have wet clutches. JMHO! |
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Title: Re: Tapping Clicking When Hot Post by cursal on 07/06/10 at 23:51:15 I think I have only put on 30 miles since I put seafoam in. How bad you think that oopsie was? Ordered a Cam chain tensioner from Verslagen a few days ago. I figure I gotta drain the oil to swap out parts, will do oil change too. I suppose I should get a chain too...any good deals out there...links, other members...? |
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Title: Re: Tapping Clicking When Hot Post by Digger on 07/08/10 at 20:22:58 495F58594B462A0 wrote:
Well, I don't really know. That's why, if it were me, I'd get that oil out of there ASAP. There is a not insignificant chance that you could lose a clutch pack. JMHO! |
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Title: Re: Tapping Clicking When Hot Post by verslagen1 on 07/08/10 at 20:41:41 49646A6A687F0D0 wrote:
I don't see the issue, it was said that it contains light oil, naphtha and isopropyl, what's harmful to clutches? |
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Title: Re: Tapping Clicking When Hot Post by Digger on 07/08/10 at 21:44:12 170413120D0006040F50610 wrote:
I don't see the issue, it was said that it contains light oil, naphtha and isopropyl, what's harmful to clutches?[/quote] I'm not certain that it contains ONLY those three things. I'm also not certain that the naphtha and the alcohol are completely benign in this application. I'm also not certain that the gunk loosened by the Sea Foam in the crankcase is not harmful to the clutch pack. Erring to the side of caution, I'd say that the potential benefits of using Sea Foam in the crankcase do not outweigh the potential problems. If you're worried about gunk in the crankcase, I think it is much more prudent to run JASO MA rated Rotella in there for a few hundred miles, then flush and fill with your oil of choice. JMHO. |
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Title: Re: Tapping Clicking When Hot Post by verslagen1 on 07/08/10 at 22:18:18 4C616F6F6D7A080 wrote:
I'm a little more certain cause I cleaned gunk out of there with seafoam and a toothbrush, side cases and top cover off. flushed with dino Rot twice. with a half hour on both changes. |
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