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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> New parts--still flooding. HELP! /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1276042399 Message started by drums1 on 06/08/10 at 17:13:19 |
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Title: New parts--still flooding. HELP! Post by drums1 on 06/08/10 at 17:13:19 The lowdown... was stalling out at idle. Could smell raw gas. The fix... petcork rebuild (new diaphram). New vacuum line. New gas line. Yes, the flow is right direction. Clean and rebuild carb, with new needle and o-ring on seat. New spark plug, gapped as specified. Adjusted the valves-they were noisy. Very small adjustment. The result... runs the same as before...dies at idle, cruising ok. I still smell gas, and it seems to be leaking out the vent tubes a little. No other leaks. Also, it seems to run a lot smoother, but way quieter. Almost sounds like I put a new muffler on. What's up with that? Did I maybe over adjust the exhaust valves? Would that even cause this? I'm stumped. Any idea's as to what to check next? |
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Title: Re: New parts--still flooding. HELP! Post by Serowbot on 06/08/10 at 20:56:18 Well,... if it ain't the petcock, or the needle and seat,... your floats have to be sinking... That's all that left... you need floats... test them by pulling them out and drop'em in a cup of gas... if they float, you're going to have to go over what you already did... Gas can only come in two ways,... needle and seat, or down that vac line... |
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Title: Re: New parts--still flooding. HELP! Post by Routy on 06/08/10 at 21:08:17 I know carbs in general, but I don't know this carb except for doing the spacer mod. But basically, in any carb, if you replaced the float valve (needle & seat) is shouldn't be over filling the bowl,....unless the float has gas in it, or is gass logged, or the float got bent or was adjusted for the wrong level. |
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Title: Re: New parts--still flooding. HELP! Post by verslagen1 on 06/08/10 at 21:36:52 yeah, check the float level if you have a drain nipple, connect a clear tube and run it up by the carb open the valve and the gas should flow into it. turn the petcock to prime and the gas should come up to the bowl gasket and stop. if it don't, check the floats and the valve. can't hurt to check the valve adjustment again. |
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Title: Re: New parts--still flooding. HELP! Post by LANCER on 06/09/10 at 05:27:51 does the flooding happen when just sitting over night or after you open up the fuel valve and start the engine ? or both ? |
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Title: Re: New parts--still flooding. HELP! Post by drums1 on 06/09/10 at 07:00:15 It floods while running, everytime I come to a stop. It started doing it gradually, not all the time. Usually after warmed up. Then about 2 weeks ago it was doing it all the time every time, after warming up. When cold, seemed to run ok. Now, I don't even need to "choke" it when starting up. The floats seem ok--not gas soaked or heavy. Mixture screw froze in place at 1 3/4 turns out. |
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Title: Re: New parts--still flooding. HELP! Post by ratz on 06/09/10 at 07:49:42 Had a problem like that on mine,turned out to be a leaking float.One easy way I found to find even a small leak is to heat the float up with a hair dryer(outside,of course!) while rotating it around.If it's got any gas at all in it,it WILL show up. Good thing is,it's a brass float,so a little solder solved the problem.If you do have to solder it,don't forget to desolder the vent hole on the inside side of the float first,otherwise the solder will blow bubbles as the heat expands the air in it.Once you solder the leak,you solder the vent hole shut again.You have to wait for the expansion to quit(it will stop bubbling) so it will seal.If it's sealed right,it will suck the side in slightly once it cools. Or,you can buy a new float for about $22.(I'm cheap!!! ;D) |
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Title: Re: New parts--still flooding. HELP! Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/09/10 at 12:55:33 The result... runs the same as before...dies at idle, cruising ok. Well,, you didnt mess anything up...just gotta find the problem. |
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Title: Re: New parts--still flooding. HELP! Post by drums1 on 06/10/10 at 06:38:38 I'm just gonna order new floats and be done with it. I hope. As Serobot said above, that's the only thing left it could be. As the floats are bouncing around while riding--up hill, down hill, bumpity bump--the condition comes and goes, although it seems to run bad more often than not. I still don't understand what may have caused the noise reduction in the exhaust. Dam thing sounds like a Honda now. There's a big vent hose from top of head to air box. That was leaking-I replaced with new. Could that be the cause? How do I get the Harley sound back? I have a Harley muffler with baffle knocked out now. |
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Title: Re: New parts--still flooding. HELP! Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/10/10 at 10:09:53 Pull your float & shake it. If theres gas in it, youll know. If no gas in float, stick float in a pan O H2O & hold it down. Bubbles? Its bad.. |
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Title: Re: New parts--still flooding. HELP! Post by drums1 on 06/11/10 at 15:19:37 Quote:
My dealer told me $72 plus tax! |
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Title: Re: New parts--still flooding. HELP! Post by Oldfeller on 06/11/10 at 15:35:00 Check a float for leaks, put in in freezer for an hour or so, then submerse in warm soapy water. Excess cold air in the float will expand and exit as it warms up, making bubbles you can see as it exits the hole it entered by. PULL THE PART OUT OF THE WATER JUST AS SOON AS THE BUBBLES SLOW DOWN -- it is getting ready to suck water inside as soon as the bubbles stop. Mark the leak locations with a sharpie pen. Float can be dried in a warm 100 degree oven (not hotter if float has plastic in it) or put over a heat vent for a week or so to get the water out of it. You have to get all the gasoline and or water out of it ..... You can get a float to puke out internal water by chilling it in the fridge then orienting the water "down" over the hole and warming the body pf the float with a hair drier (be gentle here, don't melt your plastic float !!!) Expanding air will force the water out the hole -- repeat several times until all the water is out. Use 2 part clear epoxy to seal the float up, then check it for leaks to find out if you got all of them. A repaired float will require float height adjustment (the total weight has changed). $80 with shipping, I'd at least try to fix it !!! What do you have to lose, some time? ================== Ours looks like a sheet brass float. Solder joints are tough for non-soldering people to fix -- use the 2 part epoxy trick to reseal it. You can heat your float up to 212 degrees F to get the water out of it, don't go much higher as you will melt the solder and the whole thing will come apart on you (ask me how I know this ... :-[) |
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Title: Re: New parts--still flooding. HELP! Post by ratz on 06/11/10 at 15:55:18 6670776F7133020 wrote:
Crap!!!Remind me to stay away from your dealer! I just double-checked with my local Suzuki dealer,and he quoted me $19.05 plus tax. Somebody's got one helluva markup! Also,thank you Oldfeller for suggesting epoxy.I'm an electronics tech and I sometimes forget everybody doesn't solder! :-[ (As an aside,a heat gun desolders the whole thing real well!I won't do THAT again!) |
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Title: Re: New parts--still flooding. HELP! Post by Serowbot on 06/11/10 at 17:14:47 Drums,... I know you rebuilt the petcock,... but try this test ... It will cost nothing, and is quick and easy to do... Test it by pulling the vacuum line off at the intake port, and blocking it and the intake port on the carb, ...(Note: just pulling the line will create a huge vacuum leak,.. both ends must be capped!)... Then ride, with the petcock set to prime, and see if it runs better... If it runs better, the petcock is bad... Don't forget to block these ends! http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt82/serowbot/plug.jpg?t=1251936339 |
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Title: Re: New parts--still flooding. HELP! Post by verslagen1 on 06/11/10 at 23:56:57 4254534B5517260 wrote:
So let's check this out. what muf do you have? what's normal? wake the dead? mouse fart? suppossin' you had a stock muf, drilled out some. 'an 80's muf could drop enough rust to block the drilled out holes. So is it back to mousey? |
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Title: Re: New parts--still flooding. HELP! Post by jef.savage on 06/13/10 at 06:00:49 boulevardsuzuki.com has the float for $14.06 plus shipping. |
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Title: Re: New parts--still flooding. HELP! Post by drums1 on 06/13/10 at 07:06:43 Thanks Jefsav....I will be getting one there for sure. Slavvy--as for the muffler--it's an old HD muffler I got from someone on here a couple years ago-had baffle knocked out already--bike sounded like a little Harley. Now sounds like a Honda or a Suzuki with OE muffler. I checked the innards and I can still see right through it. About the size of a nickle. And like I said, the only things I changed was the diaphram in petcock, needle, o-ring on needle seat, vacuum line to petcock, gas line, and that big vent hose. (head to airbox) I also did a minor valve adjust. (1/8 turn or less) Just enough to get rid of the clackity-clack noise. Oh, and a new spark plug. |
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Title: Re: New parts--still flooding. HELP! Post by CalisOsin on 06/16/10 at 11:17:10 3325322F37222F34400 wrote:
You are my new favorite person! I was experiencing all the same problems as drums1 and was having a hell of a time figuring it out. This trick was very easy and made my bike run like a champ. Thank you! I'll be getting a new petcock soon. I was just wondering, because my bike is my only transportation for now, is there any problem with running it this was for a couple days as long as I remember to turn the valve to "ON" rather than "PRIME" when I shut the bike off?? Also, thanks everyone who posts here, your tips, tricks and advice are great. |
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Title: Re: New parts--still flooding. HELP! Post by Serowbot on 06/16/10 at 12:01:56 That will be fine,.. just remember that when running on prime, you don't have any reserve if you run out of gas... ;)... See here for info on buying a manual Raptor petcock replacment for $20.00... or so... http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1251932429 |
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Title: Re: New parts--still flooding. HELP! Post by Phelonius on 06/16/10 at 13:10:14 If you have removed and replaced your main jet, you may be missing a very small bushing that is up inside the tube above it. This happened on my TW a couple of weeks ago and the dam little thing evaporated. It cost me 40 bucks for a new one, counting shipping charges. Lack of it will most assuradely cause a richness of a degree that the bike will not run for crap no matter what else you do. Phelonius |
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Title: Re: New parts--still flooding. HELP! Post by drums1 on 06/16/10 at 19:36:51 Are you talking about the washer that goes on the main jet? Ya I made sure it was there. My problem started out of the blue, before I ever took carb apart. Come and go--got worse with time. Well, I took carb off AGAIN, and reset the float. It was a little off-(how that happens by itself I'll never figure out) I also did the dunk in gas and water--no bubbles, let go and it pops right up. Float is good. If resetting it doesn't work, I give up. I'll know tomorrow morning when I finish putting it all back together. The last thing I'll try is Serobots check, if it's still not right. I'll update when I know. |
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Title: Re: New parts--still flooding. HELP! Post by drums1 on 06/18/10 at 07:33:06 Well. I'm beside myself and I truly give up. I got it all back together again, and it's doing the exact same thing as when I started. About 1 mile into ride it starts sputtering and dying everytime I stop. It's like a choke problem on a car. I just let off the gas in 4th gear, going about 40mph, and it died. I popped the clutch back out and it wouldn't start back up until I pulled over and cranked on it for about 20 seconds. Then, it still wanted to keep dying out. I revved the piss out of it and eventually it stayed running but I had to keep revving it up when at red lights. Sounds like it's way too lean almost, but I smell gas and it's dripping out the vent tubes. And if I pull out the enrichment valve, it dies right away. Then it starts running ok for a bit, then running like crap. Back and forth. I wonder if the timing chain is jumping a tooth at random. It shouldn't be, since I had the tension adjuster replaced last summer with the "new and improved" one from the dealer, during last years fiasco. It's an '87, but only 16,000 OE miles on it. I'm about ready to put the dam thing up for sale. But who, in their right mind, would even consider buying it? >:( :( >:( :( >:( :( >:( :( >:( :( >:( :( >:( :( >:( :( >:( :( >:( :( |
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Title: Re: New parts--still flooding. HELP! Post by CalisOsin on 06/18/10 at 10:56:15 drums1 - Did you try Serowbot's trick of turning to "prime" and pluggint he vacuum line? I had the exact same problems you are describing, and this helped me find out it was the petcock all along. Even if you know you just rebult it, this only takes 30 seconds and is definitely worth a try. |
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Title: Re: New parts--still flooding. HELP! Post by drums1 on 06/18/10 at 11:26:15 As soon as the storms roll through, I'm going to the parts house to buy a little rubber cap. Golf tee's I have a thousand of, but being a mechanic, you'd think I could find one little rubber cap? No such luck. Serobots check is the ONLY thing left I haven't tried because, yes, I just rebuilt the dam petcock. I hate to think I just spent $22 for nothing. If that's the case and it is bad, it will be smashed into 1000 little pieces, right before I go and spend another $20 on the Raptor. ("I don't want a pickle....just want to ride on my motor-cycle") |
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Title: Re: New parts--still flooding. HELP! Post by Serowbot on 06/18/10 at 12:34:30 The only thing left,... is always the culprit... ;D... |
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Title: Re: New parts--still flooding. HELP! Post by drums1 on 06/18/10 at 13:24:42 And I'll be dammed if it ain't.... My sincere apologies go out to Serowbot and others who suggested his check, for not doing it sooner. I did it today and then put on 30 miles with no problems whatsoever. As I type this I just remembered I forgot to shut off the gas................... Wow. I just ran out to garage and expected gas to be all over the floor and a full crankcase--not the case. Strange. Apparently the new needle and o-ring on the seat and the new diaphram are doing their thing. So do I need a Raptor or can I just stay with the modified OE petcock? (Being as I spent $23 on that useless diaphram 1 week ago?) Is that the difference--the Raptor has no diaphram? |
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Title: Re: New parts--still flooding. HELP! Post by CalisOsin on 06/18/10 at 14:19:17 I don't know the difference really, but the guys here all suggested it and they seem to know their stuff. So I ordered one immediately. Glad you got it fixed, I know how aggravating it is! |
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Title: Re: New parts--still flooding. HELP! Post by Serowbot on 06/18/10 at 16:02:20 The petcock from a Yamaha Raptor works manually instead of by vacuum... This is the way petcocks have operated for nearly a century until some fool thought that a vacuum operation would be clever... I'm glad you've found the problem,... but, bypassing it, ain't fixing it... with it bypassed, you will no longer have a reserve, and whatever ain't right in there, will still be wrong... and, the Raptor looks better, works better, and makes tank removal easier for future maintenance... I know it's an irksome thought,.. but the $23.00 you wasted on the stock petcock repair is still wasted, whether you buy a Raptor or not... I'd strongly recommend getting a Raptor,... This is the Raptor part no. 5LP-24500-01-00 2003 Yamaha Raptor 660 YFM660R http://www.ronayers.com/browseparts.cfm?SearchString=5LP-24500-01-00&adv=5&kw... PS,.. people recommend that you shut off a manual petcock when you park, but I never have... and it's never been a problem for me in 30 years... I only shut off to pull the tank or do carb work... ... as it is,... you have know idea whether turning your broken petcock to run position when parked is doing anything anyway... |
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Title: Re: New parts--still flooding. HELP! Post by Bubba on 06/18/10 at 17:51:29 Took serowbot's suggestion a few weeks ago and plugged the vac port with a screw after the raptor install...then I took a little rubber tip from one of those wire kitchen racks to cover the screw...almost looks like it was made that way...which it probably should have been... |
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Title: Re: New parts--still flooding. HELP! Post by Digger on 07/05/10 at 21:40:47 192E39393A6A6B63685B0 wrote:
Another way to skin that cat: http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee201/Digger109/CarbVacuumPortPlugE.jpg I squeezed a bit of RTV into the hose first. |
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