SuzukiSavage.com /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> The Cafe >> Motorcycle Fatal Crash ABS Brakes vs Non-ABS /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1273942073 Message started by trev0006 on 05/15/10 at 09:47:53

Title: Motorcycle Fatal Crash ABS Brakes vs Non-ABS Post by trev0006 on 05/15/10 at 09:47:53 Video - Motorcycle Fatal Crash ABS Brakes vs Non-ABS (http://www.dpccars.com/motorcycle-10/05-11-10page-Motorcycle-Fatal-Crash-ABS-Brakes-vs-Non-ABS.htm) Institute researchers compared the fatal crash experience of antilock-equipped motorcycles against their nonantilock counterparts during 2003-08. The main finding is that motorcycles with antilocks versus without are 37 percent less likely to be in fatal crashes per 10,000 registered vehicle years. Bolstering this finding is a separate analysis by the Highway Loss Data Institute (HLDI), an affiliate of the Insurance Institute. HLDI analyzed insurance claims filed for crash damage to motorcycles. Bike models with antilocks have 22 percent fewer claims for crash damage per insured vehicle year (a vehicle year is 1 vehicle insured for 1 year, 2 insured for 6 months, etc.) than the same models without antilocks. The results update earlier studies by the Institute and HLDI published in 2008. In 2009 the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) announced that it was looking at the issue in light of the Institutes earlier study but stated that an additional year of data and additional analyses are needed to determine the statistical significance of the results.

Title: Re: Motorcycle Fatal Crash ABS Brakes vs Non-ABS Post by bill67 on 05/15/10 at 11:35:02   The guy in the movie with the out riggers locked his brakes,No one would lock their brakes in a car or motorcycle,On wet or dry roads.

Title: Re: Motorcycle Fatal Crash ABS Brakes vs Non-ABS Post by dasch on 05/15/10 at 12:37:55 What do you mean no one?? That's why people usually crash. They panic, lock brakes and lose control. Rear mostly.

Title: Re: Motorcycle Fatal Crash ABS Brakes vs Non-ABS Post by bill67 on 05/15/10 at 13:22:10 I'm to old to panic

Title: Re: Motorcycle Fatal Crash ABS Brakes vs Non-ABS Post by Charon on 05/15/10 at 13:28:32 You don't have to be very observant to see the skid marks on the streets. The Interstate has them, too. Particularly entertaining - or intriguing - are the skid marks that go relatively straight and then have a kink in them, where the vehicle hit something. Other interesting ones are those where one can see three or four rubber marks clearly indicating the skidding vehicle was rotating. The Hurt report all those years ago remarked on the number of crashes with one long black skid mark, evidence that the rider had locked the rear brake and skidded into whatever was hit. I am truly glad to know that Bill, excellent driver that he must be, has never locked the brakes on any of his vehicles. I find that truly amazing, since he says he lives in Wisconsin where it sometimes snows. It astounds me that a driver can be so good that he never once locked brakes, even on icy roads. I congratulate him.

Title: Re: Motorcycle Fatal Crash ABS Brakes vs Non-ABS Post by verslagen1 on 05/15/10 at 15:07:03 Any report has to be taken with a lot of salt. reports are paid for by someone with an agenda. In this case, there can be a lot of factors that are hidden. Anyone that buys ABS has an extra 1000 to throw at safety. Either they're more safety conscious or rich.  Most studies agree that those of higher learning are more safety conscious and more apt to being well off. So if these 'results' are lumping everyone into the same bucket, the results will be skewed to the larger populus... most likely squids.

Title: Re: Motorcycle Fatal Crash ABS Brakes vs Non-ABS Post by bill67 on 05/15/10 at 15:15:02 4E656C7F62630D0 wrote: You don't have to be very observant to see the skid marks on the streets. The Interstate has them, too. Particularly entertaining - or intriguing - are the skid marks that go relatively straight and then have a kink in them, where the vehicle hit something. Other interesting ones are those where one can see three or four rubber marks clearly indicating the skidding vehicle was rotating. The Hurt report all those years ago remarked on the number of crashes with one long black skid mark, evidence that the rider had locked the rear brake and skidded into whatever was hit. I am truly glad to know that Bill, excellent driver that he must be, has never locked the brakes on any of his vehicles. I find that truly amazing, since he says he lives in Wisconsin where it sometimes snows. It astounds me that a driver can be so good that he never once locked brakes, even on icy roads. I congratulate him. Charon if you were to lock your brakes on a icy road you will have no control of your vehicle.

Title: Re: Motorcycle Fatal Crash ABS Brakes vs Non-ABS Post by Charon on 05/15/10 at 16:49:00 Bill, you are absolutely right. But incomplete. If you lock your brakes on ANY road you have no control of the vehicle. That is the sole job of ABS. It keeps the wheels from locking, while still allowing braking. Because the wheels are not locked, steering control remains (within the limits of traction). In the case of a motorcycle, the ABS helps keep the vehicle from falling down. A motorcycle under heavy braking is very vulnerable to a small slick spot, such as a handful of gravel, a damp spot, a little spilled oil or antifreeze. When it hits that slick spot the wheel - probably the front one which will hit the slick spot first - may lock. When it does there is very little time available for the rider to do anything before going down. ABS reacts before the rider even realizes there is a problem.

Title: Re: Motorcycle Fatal Crash ABS Brakes vs Non-ABS Post by Midnightrider on 05/15/10 at 17:59:40 Back in the mid 90's every red blooded American male who reached 40 and entered his midlife crisis decided he had to have an 800lb Harley Davidson instead of a red sportscar. Some of them had ridden in their younger years, some had not. Hence the wait of over a year for some models and Harley dealers selling the bikes for thousands over retail. All these extremely heavy somewhat powerful motorcycles combined with extreme inexperience led to a massive increase in motorcycle accidents and deaths. Insurance companies even came up with a name for the new motorcyclist RUBS (rural urban bikers) This carried over well past 2000. 2003 was the year of 100th anniversary Harleys and there was a mad scramble to snag a 100th anniversary model. For lack of a better term this "fad" is pretty much over. Harley showrooms are full again, attendance at Harley Rallys is down drastically and motorcycle sales are dropped below normal. Last time I read the Hurt Report was back in the 90's, if I recall correctly it is published every 10 years. They were harping on helmets back in the 90's. Havent seen the latest Hurt report but there is no way to accurately figure in the RUB phenomena. I know accidents and deaths skyrocketed but that was due to a major increase of inexperienced bikers on large ill handling and braking motorcycles. Thats why the insurance companies are getting involved with the antilock brake issue, Anything they think will save them money, if it cost us extra money they dont care. If you really think antilock brakes will save your a$$ get em, I'm old school, I'll take knowlege and experience any day over a mechanical device. I will always believe the best money a motorcyclist can ever spend is the MSF courses. There's a lot of truth in the old saying, "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure!"

Title: Re: Motorcycle Fatal Crash ABS Brakes vs Non-ABS Post by bill67 on 05/15/10 at 18:16:53 476C65766B6A040 wrote: Bill, you are absolutely right. But incomplete. If you lock your brakes on ANY road you have no control of the vehicle. That is the sole job of ABS. It keeps the wheels from locking, while still allowing braking. Because the wheels are not locked, steering control remains (within the limits of traction). In the case of a motorcycle, the ABS helps keep the vehicle from falling down. A motorcycle under heavy braking is very vulnerable to a small slick spot, such as a handful of gravel, a damp spot, a little spilled oil or antifreeze. When it hits that slick spot the wheel - probably the front one which will hit the slick spot first - may lock. When it does there is very little time available for the rider to do anything before going down. ABS reacts before the rider even realizes there is a problem. Charon you are right that is the reason I never lock my brakes car or Motorcycle.

Title: Re: Motorcycle Fatal Crash ABS Brakes vs Non-ABS Post by dasch on 05/15/10 at 19:04:39 606B6E6E3435020 wrote: I'm to old to panic ;D in that case...

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