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General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Another one won't start
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Message started by jef.savage on 04/27/10 at 17:09:26

Title: Another one won't start
Post by jef.savage on 04/27/10 at 17:09:26

I put a very low mileage '96 engine in my '86 a while back. It started right up and ran fine. I haven't had it on the road because the bike still needs other work done. But I've been starting it every week or so and riding it around my condo complex. Last week I did the fork seals and thought it was finally ready to go. I started it up and it ran for a minute or so and then just quit. I couldn't get it to start again. I thought it might be out of gas so I added some but no go. It cranks normally but it won't fire. It's getting gas, it already has a Raptor petcock. Today I pulled the plug and watched it spark as I cranked it but it still won't start. Help please.

Title: Re: Another one won't start
Post by verslagen1 on 04/27/10 at 17:44:12

May not have enough charge, running around for a few minutes might not be enough to recharge it.

Title: Re: Another one won't start
Post by jef.savage on 04/27/10 at 17:58:36

Ran the battery dead trying to start it, pulled it and charged it over night, ran it dead again, pulled it and charged it again.

Title: Re: Another one won't start
Post by Oldfeller on 04/27/10 at 18:04:48

Ditto.

The Savage has electronic ignition and the voltage that will still spin the bike over a bit sluggishly under compression may not be enough to fire the ignitor circuit.

Remember, when you checked the spark there is no compression to strain the starter motor into pulling its full current draw -- so then it has enough voltage to pull a spark while just pumping some air in and out through the spark plug hole. This isn't true under compression.

Step 1 Fully charge the battery

Step 2 fill the gas tank up to the top with known good gasoline

Step 3 if it still won't start whack the float bowl sharply with the butt end of a screw driver and wait a few minutes. Try again. Try again.

You don't mention using the choke, but over use can flood an engine which will then start normally after a day of rest.

Title: Re: Another one won't start
Post by verslagen1 on 04/27/10 at 18:52:26

757A79316C7C70697673737A1F0 wrote:

I started it up and it ran for a minute or so and then just quit.

a minute is about what it takes to run the bowl dry.
did you turn on the petcock?
then I'd check proper operation of the float.
got a drain teet on the bottom of the bowl?
hook a clear gas line to it and run it up along side the bowl.
turn on the petcock, gas should come up to the bowl gasket.
if it don't, you might have a stuck float or valve.
a percusive adjustment is in order. a couple of sharp raps with a plastic handle should do 'er.

Title: Re: Another one won't start
Post by Rocco on 04/27/10 at 21:31:45

sometimes if my bike is semi warm or already been ridden that day, using the choke will make her stall while she warms up....normal?

Title: Re: Another one won't start
Post by BurnPgh on 04/27/10 at 22:27:51

6E535F5F533C0 wrote:

sometimes if my bike is semi warm or already been ridden that day, using the choke will make her stall while she warms up....normal?

normal

Title: Re: Another one won't start
Post by buttgoat1 on 04/28/10 at 09:57:48

I had intermittent starting problems at first.

Typically I would drop the carb bowl, spray cleaner, and away she would go, every time.

I have not had many problems since I rejetted, when I did have a couple of hard starts, I changed the plug and that cured it.

Title: Re: Another one won't start
Post by jef.savage on 04/28/10 at 11:51:31

Smacked the carb. no go. Swapped out the carb (doesn't everyone keep a spare around?), no go. Checked again for spark and got none, swapped out the coil (doesn't everyone keep a spare around?). it fired and ran for a few seconds then died. Wore a new battery down trying to get it going again. Brought the battery in to charge and gave up for the day. It'll be a week before I get a chance to look at it again. I think I'll stick a new plug in just to see if a little extra spark does anything. I'll update next Tuesday.

Title: Re: Another one won't start
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/28/10 at 11:54:33

Well, DANG!Talk about a cliffhanger. I cant wait for "the next installment".

Title: Re: Another one won't start
Post by Yonuh Adisi on 04/28/10 at 12:00:36

3837347C21313D243B3E3E37520 wrote:

The CDI aka The Magic Sh!t Box may be your culprit. Just a guess though.

Title: Re: Another one won't start
Post by verslagen1 on 04/28/10 at 12:47:19

check your connections

Title: Re: Another one won't start
Post by jef.savage on 04/28/10 at 12:54:02

When I swapped engines I had to splice the CDI connector from a '96 wiring harness into my harness so I could plug in the new CDI. I redid all the splices today just to check. Also checked all connections near there. I would figure I did something wrong there except that it ran fine for a few weeks.

Title: Re: Another one won't start
Post by ratz on 04/28/10 at 13:02:20

On the subject of the CDI,does anyone have a dead one they would be willing to donate to me?I've managed to successfully rebuild a couple of Bandit CDI's(known problem on the 400's)and would like to see if it might be possible to resurrect a Savage CDI.I've got a '96 Savage,so it would be easier to function test a newer box.Also,I've got a PROM burner(around here SOMEWHERE!)so it might be possible to convert an older box to a newer one an vice versa.Just a project to see if I can,new ones are kinda pricey!

Title: Re: Another one won't start
Post by james may on 04/28/10 at 15:00:48

You said you've got spark and fuel did you check the compression? the timing chain could be broke, or the auto decompression cable could be stuck causing no or low compression. to make sure fuel is not your problem you could shoot some starting fluid into the carb. if it starts or fires a few times you now fuel is your problem.

Title: Re: Another one won't start
Post by jef.savage on 05/27/10 at 11:43:57

I think the original problem was just running it out of gas. It didn't occur to me since it doesn't get ridden but I guess even starting once a week will run it out eventually. I wore the battery down before I realized it needed gas. So I added gas and tried to jump it. I think I fried something electrical. I was seeing spark when I checked for it but it may have been weak, I don't know how big it should be. So I decided to walk away and take a break and come back fresh in a week. When I came back I put in the a new plug and thought I would check for spark again before installing it. This time no spark. Swapped coils, still no spark. So I swapped out the alternator.
THIS IS WHERE THE CURRENT PROBLEM BEGINS.
When I push the start button I hear the decomp click, the solenoid clicks, and then nothing. I swapped starters, same result. If I remove the starter and ground it it spins when it's supposed to. Replace it and no go. I removed the generator cover again and checked the gears that engage the starter. They seem right. I was able to turn the starter shaft by hand and see the gears turn the engine. Put it back together and same story. Any ideas?

Title: Re: Another one won't start
Post by verslagen1 on 05/27/10 at 11:47:44

yep, most likely you got a washer in the wrong spot. been done before.

Title: Re: Another one won't start
Post by jef.savage on 05/27/10 at 16:37:12

I guess I just needed some encouragement to get in there again. I only found one washer but pics in Clymer's and the parts fiche don't show any. So I tried it in a couple locations close to where it was and every time I put the cover back on I had the same result. So I left it out and closed it up and WOOHOO it started right up and ran til I shut it off.

THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU!

Title: Re: Another one won't start
Post by verslagen1 on 05/27/10 at 17:07:45

Just to prove you aren't alone...

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1229466748/13#13

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1220294766/1#1

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1212352834/14#14

Title: Re: Another one won't start
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/28/10 at 02:25:36

WD 40 uses propane for propellant. Makes a good test fuel. I hesitate to use starting fluid on gas engines. Too much is not so hard to do, IMO.