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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Flames? /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1271859735 Message started by Bubba on 04/21/10 at 07:22:14 |
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Title: Flames? Post by Bubba on 04/21/10 at 07:22:14 Dropped a K&N filter into my ride yesterday, now it is popping between shifts and when I wind it up and close the throttle hard it shoots flames...can't be good (but it does look cool). Was running great B4 the new air filter (still does) but I'm confused... :-? Don't flames indicate too rich? I thought it would go leaner with the new airfilter. I'm running at a mile high, 1/2 spacer, stock jets, open pipe and 2 1/2 turns out on the air mix screw. I was actually getting ready to go up one on the main but now I'm not so sure... :-/ I'm wondering if dropping 60 bucks on the K&N was a good idea. Any ideas would be welcome Thanks, |
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Title: Re: Flames? Post by Routy on 04/21/10 at 07:41:59 I'd bet the new filter isn't causing the backfiring. Different fuels, different humidity, different temps, can all make a difference in the amount of backfire. |
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Title: Re: Flames? Post by Bubba on 04/21/10 at 08:54:06 Thanks Routy but hat was the only thing that changed between Sunday and yesterday...I'm pretty darn sure I didn't have flames shooting out the back on Sunday and the temp/altitude and gas all were constant. But like I said, wouldn't the higher air flow lean it out rather then richen it? |
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Title: Re: Flames? Post by Charon on 04/21/10 at 09:12:00 The first question I have is what makes you think the new K&N air filter flows more air? Paper filters as installed by original manufacturers actually flow and filter quite well. Seems to me we had someone else post about problems they had after cleaning a K&N filter. I think their problem involved leaving too much of the K&N oil in the filter element, which restricted flow. I have never used a K&N, so cannot speak from direct experience. |
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Title: Re: Flames? Post by einheit13 on 04/21/10 at 09:26:22 you're running lean. the K&N flows much more air than any paper element. Theresa reason thay advertise it out flows a paper filter and makes more power (when jetted accordingly). Same with free floing exhaust. |
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Title: Re: Flames? Post by Charon on 04/21/10 at 09:35:09 Perhaps I am a little cynical, but I would point out that K&N wouldn't sell many filters if they didn't advertise better airflow and more power. They also advertise how long the filters last, but don't mention the mess of cleaning them. It is also said (but not by K&N) that the extra air flow comes at the expense of poorer filtration, especially of smaller particles such as airborne dust. |
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Title: Re: Flames? Post by Bubba on 04/21/10 at 09:37:31 I have a few days of rain/crummy weather here. I'm going to try and drop in the next size main I received from Lancer's kit and see if that helps, I'f it still flames out I'll try the pilot w/ bleed holes. If that doesn't help then maybe I'll try the enrichment valve mod. If all else fails, I'll go backwards in steps and eventually end up with a stock bike again...haha ;D |
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Title: Re: Flames? Post by jabman on 04/21/10 at 09:49:31 erm yes i had problems that extenuated after cleaning and re oiling my k&n i have no idea at all what's up all i know is im running lean on full throttle, which i will investigate and get to the bottom of when i get back off holiday. ;) |
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Title: Re: Flames? Post by einheit13 on 04/21/10 at 15:07:22 1E353C2F32335D0 wrote:
Its the closest thing to an oil bath air cleaner without getting one. Ever wonder why oiling an air clearn element came about?? Dry guaze and paper filters olny get so much. To fix this, the use of a pre filter was adopted. Helped , but still needed improvement. Then someone decided to oil the foam on the prefilter. Hmmm, works well, but still restricted air flow. Ditched the paper and desined a pleated filter that will trap oil and allow the most airflow without losing the oil into the motor. They only make a mess when you over oil them or squish them in the filter box. Cleaning is very easy, drop it in a bucket of hot soapy watr and shake it around, let it air dry or take the compressor to it. You could hit it with a preassure washer, you can hit it with carb cleaner. You can clean it in the solvent tank. Dishwashers work great. Re oiling isn't that difficult as long as you read the dirctions and 'spin' it after a few minutes to let it run. By spin I mean shaking the excess out, if any. All my K&N filters are round, so thats why I spin mine. I have had it on the dyno with and without K&N filters and they work, period. |
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Title: Re: Flames? Post by Routy on 04/21/10 at 15:42:30 Yeah, I believe they mite give a touch more performance, but so will running w/o any air filter at all. Where ya gonna draw the line ? And there ain't a warranty on earth that is worth a plug nickle w/ a K&N installed. But hey, its your motor,...... do what you're gonna do ! |
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Title: Re: Flames? Post by SmilinLDR on 04/21/10 at 18:11:22 I've run a K&N for the last 12 months or so with no issues. Also a mile high, 2008 S40, no engine mods. It is popping a little more this week than last but not dramatically so. I think the change in temp (cooler) and possibly humidity may be contributing to the issue. |
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Title: Re: Flames? Post by Bubba on 04/22/10 at 06:23:31 Thanks Smilin', what kind of exhaust are you running? Are you in Denver? I pulled my carb last night and checked the jets (the main is a 145) and I plan to swap it out with a 150. I'll give that a try and see what happens. Even at a mile high I think a 145 is pretty small. I also swapped out my spark plug...the old one wasn't bad (very light tan) but I was a little worried because when I pulled the old one I could back it out by hand!!! :o If it's still popping/banging next week I may go up to the pilot w/ bleed holes. Thanks everyone... |
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Title: Re: Flames? Post by SmilinLDR on 04/22/10 at 18:52:51 I'm in Lakewood. My exhaust is stock. It is my first bike so when I purchased it I got the extended warranty and have been reserved in making any mods that may void the warranty. One year left, thinking about foregoing the last year. Good luck! |
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Title: Re: Flames? Post by einheit13 on 04/22/10 at 19:01:00 3B342E35292F3C3E36382F5D0 wrote:
Actually, youll make less power with no filter. You need a longer 'air horn' to make more power. Regardless, the facts stand on their own, the K&N flows better than any pleated filter and an oil soked type filter stops more debris. Always has, always will.... :) |
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Title: Re: Flames? Post by einheit13 on 04/22/10 at 19:04:01 4A7470757077555D4B190 wrote:
Warrantys are void only on the parts you change. Went through this on my Dads Triumph when we chaged the exhaust and the shifter seal started leaking....everything was still under warrabty, except the exhaust pipes/emmissions system.... |
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Title: Re: Flames? Post by bill67 on 04/22/10 at 19:14:32 2C2027212C203D787A490 wrote:
Actually, youll make less power with no filter. You need a longer 'air horn' to make more power. Regardless, the facts stand on their own, the K&N flows better than any pleated filter and an oil soked type filter stops more debris. Always has, always will.... :)[/quote] I've put k&n filter in cars and motorcycles and couldn't see any improvement in power or gas mileage. |
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Title: Re: Flames? Post by einheit13 on 04/22/10 at 20:30:26 383336366C6D5A0 wrote:
Typically you won't unless you tune for it. Any upgrade requires tuning-car or bike (non computer). My trak ride picked up and revved quicker. Had to retune the carb a little. I took my XJ750 from 13.10 to 12.87 with 1 up on the main jet. opened up the airbox and went 12.80. took off the filter and went 12.83. installed a big K&N and went 12.76. Gutted the pipes and went 12.61. Removed the air box and ysed EMGO pods, 12.60. Switched to K&N pods and 12.53. Switched to a big K&N oval and went 12.50......next is a tuned 4/2-2/1 combo with a long collector and a huge muffler. My Dad's 05 America picked up 5 HP at the rear wheel with a swith to BUB pipes and a shim on the needles. Added K&N filters for 2 more. Now the rear wheel HP is the same as the BHP at the motor, 66. Ya can't feel 2hp, but you can feel the change in throttle respnse/carb 'attitude'. |
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Title: Re: Flames? Post by Routy on 04/22/10 at 22:17:03 Bill wrote: I've put k&n filter in cars and motorcycles and couldn't see any improvement in power or gas mileage. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- And you never will, except under WOT ! And how many seconds can we operate under WOT? But when I was younger and played w/ this kinda stuff all the time, I could feel a performance gain in a lot of the mods we did, but only after mixing some imagination in w/ it all ;D |
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Title: Re: Flames? Post by Bubba on 04/23/10 at 06:59:52 Pretty darn proud of myself...This was the first time I pulled everything to get to the carb. I managed to change the spacer to a half size a while back w/o having to pull the carb off the bike. This was the first time I pulled a carb on anything other than a lawnmower. Dropped in the 150 main, replaced all the crappy screws with stainless socket head screws, replaced the spark plug and then reinstalled the carb....fired up the first time and sounded SWEET! Unfortunately, it was pouring rain so I didn't take her out for a spin. I must say tho' that it seemed like a lot of work to get to stuff...fun just the same. I appreciate all the feedback on the filter war but the K&N is in there and it's not coming out now! I'll probably never have to look at it again since the recommended maintenance is after 50,000 miles! With my new found confidence I plan to adjust the valves, adjust the decomp, change the front pads and check the cam adjuster when I get new tires... What a fun little ride! P.S. Smilin, I work in Lakewood. This is also my first bike. We should try and meet up sometime and ride the twisties up through Morrison. P.M. me if you're interested. |
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