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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> WOT lean issue /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1271686217 Message started by jabman on 04/19/10 at 07:10:17 |
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Title: WOT lean issue Post by jabman on 04/19/10 at 07:10:17 hi folks ive got a strange problem with my bike in the 3/4 to full throttle range. Its strong at low openings and mid openings but splutters and surges under full or near full throttle. It also blued my dyna pipe really badly. ive always had this problem but it never bothered me because i rarely used to use more then 1/2 throttle, and since i cleaned my k&n filter the problem has worsened. Before i would get this at about 1/2 throttle, but i raised my float height (because it was too low), went from a 165 main to a 177.5 main and moved the circlip up to the middle ring because the midrange went to rich, and cleaned out my carb with carb cleaner and compressed air. ive also ran some carb cleaner in the fuel, current jets in sig any suggestions before i move to yet another bigger main jet?? :-/ |
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Title: Re: WOT lean issue Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/19/10 at 08:24:15 You changed the exhaust to a more free flowing exhaust & didnt rejet? |
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Title: Re: WOT lean issue Post by Reelthing on 04/19/10 at 08:31:21 Are those mikuni or dynojet main jets your using? |
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Title: Re: WOT lean issue Post by verslagen1 on 04/19/10 at 08:59:02 Noted that you're in ENGLAND and those maybe METRIC jets. For your reference, state side those are really big jets. From your discription, I'm thinking you're too rich. What's your plug look like? Blueing can be caused by rich conditions as well. |
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Title: Re: WOT lean issue Post by jabman on 04/19/10 at 09:31:34 thanks i am using genuine mikuni jets the large round type. the reason i say think i am lean is because the inside of the pipe has no carbon on it at all and the greased brake arm which is near the opening of the muffler also is not blackened when i had a rich midrange and a still lean WOT, after a ride i would see that my brake arm was blackened with soot but the exhaust was not, so the only explanation was that the rich midrange made the soot and the lean WOT burned off all the carbon in the pipe. raising the circlip fixed this but im still left with a lean full throttle. :-/ |
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Title: Re: WOT lean issue Post by Serowbot on 04/19/10 at 09:32:40 Might also be a sticky slide,... or clogged main jet?... if you are really lean,... ...but like Versy says,... you kinda' sound rich... and those jets are big numbers... |
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Title: Re: WOT lean issue Post by jabman on 04/19/10 at 09:42:24 when i cleaned my filter I poked my little finger in and it it the slide smoothly went all the way up and down will post a pic of the jets im using |
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Title: Re: WOT lean issue Post by Serowbot on 04/19/10 at 09:51:09 Okay,... so we'll assume that your slide is good.... Make sure that you have the washer under main jet,... they get lost sometimes... That main jet is the largest I've ever heard of anyone using... Mine is a #150... w/a dyna and a k/n.. people at sea level are usually using #152.5 or #155... maybe a few with #157.5... What is your average MPG?... |
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Title: Re: WOT lean issue Post by Reelthing on 04/19/10 at 10:01:41 man that's why I was asking about dyno's vs. mikuni's - the dyno's run roughly 10 numbers higher for the same size jet - what you are using seems far too big - 152.5 here at sea level with a freer flow exhaust on a '95 and 155 on '02 w/a cam and near open supertrap pipe |
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Title: Re: WOT lean issue Post by Routy on 04/19/10 at 10:27:47 Why doesn't anyone mention using the choke for a rich/lean test. I know that sure works for a 1/4 to mid throttle test on the OEM carb. But I ain't familiar w/ this type of choke (enrichment system) to know that is would affect WOT. |
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Title: Re: WOT lean issue Post by jabman on 04/19/10 at 10:39:10 good one ill pull my choke a little when its surging i guess ill just have to hold on tight with my right hand. ;D yep the washer is under the main jet just to make sure, the white spacer goes on top of the circlip, and the spring goes under. right? :-/ |
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Title: Re: WOT lean issue Post by jabman on 04/19/10 at 10:42:23 my mpg is high i pulled in to a station thinking i was low and still had loads left :-/ |
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Title: Re: WOT lean issue Post by Reelthing on 04/19/10 at 11:18:58 373C3F303C335D0 wrote:
yes on the spacer placement - see here: http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?board=tech;action=display;num=1098869040#2 - of course we only a single place for the c-clip are you sure it's stock needle? and do you have single diaphram/slide spring or a two piece with a plastic plug between the two? |
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Title: Re: WOT lean issue Post by verslagen1 on 04/19/10 at 11:26:32 545F5C535F503E0 wrote:
wht spacer [smiley=thumbsup.gif] someone had said (I know you said you got it) the washer under the main jet keeps the needle jet from floating up and down causing the problems you have noted. So with that being said, you sure you got the right washer? I don't know if you can test it by pushing it up, but might be worth a try. Also, not sure how the needle jet is secured. |
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Title: Re: WOT lean issue Post by jabman on 04/19/10 at 11:46:26 i will check to see what numbers are on the needle my bike has had 11 owners and the carb screws were already chewed, so that may be the case. i haven't separated my diaphragm from the slide i don't think, looking down on it it looks like there's a big round white ring on top of the slide |
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Title: Re: WOT lean issue Post by Reelthing on 04/19/10 at 14:00:19 just curious about the slide spring - some of EU area savages had/have a plastic gadget in the slide - two piece spring with it in the middle - this limits the WOT that can be had as it limits how far up the slide can slide - this qualified the machine at some point in some country for a lower level motorcycle licn based on horsepower. |
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Title: Re: WOT lean issue Post by jabman on 04/19/10 at 14:30:41 hmmm interesting i have a restricted license as i passed my test when i was 18 on a 125cc, 1 year ago. this means a 33 bhp limit for 2 years. surely there is not one in this bike. i know you can get slide spacers for a whole range of bikes that are above 33 bhp, to limit the slide movement, and bring the power down. i really have no idea what to do, apart from use bigger jets even when i know something aint right. i shall double check the needle size and such to make sure. |
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Title: Re: WOT lean issue Post by jabman on 04/20/10 at 07:14:34 after a short trip at 70+ speeds my pipe looks like this http://i780.photobucket.com/albums/yy87/jabman89/DSC00061.jpg i popped my choke out and lord behold, my speed increased!!!! |
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Title: Re: WOT lean issue Post by Routy on 04/20/10 at 07:31:56 Quote: i popped my choke out and lord behold, my speed increased!!!! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Now you know. But IMO, you have more than a jet size problem. |
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Title: Re: WOT lean issue Post by Reelthing on 04/20/10 at 07:46:25 We know that enriching the mix even more on top of a mainjet big enough to drip fire on the ground made it run better! - man you got to open the top and see what in the world is going on with the slide and needle - maybe holes in the diaphram or some such is keeping it from lifting the needle that opens the mainjet - this thing just t'aint right. |
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Title: Re: WOT lean issue Post by jabman on 04/20/10 at 08:02:51 okey dokey right well my university field trip has now been CANCELLED because of this ash cloud business, so i have more time to sort this out with a size 50 pilot jet with holes and the screw out 4 turns, the bike is really strong low down with the circlip in the middle it has a really punchy midrange its just above 3/4 throttle now >:( how shall I check the diaphragm? and what else as well as the needle size? |
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Title: Re: WOT lean issue Post by Yonuh Adisi on 04/20/10 at 08:04:56 How about checking the simple things first, like a cracked vacuum line? With a cracked vac line low to mid range may not be affected, but the upper range will produce the symptoms you describe. I know because this has happened to me, but once I replaced the vac line it cleared right up. |
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Title: Re: WOT lean issue Post by jabman on 04/20/10 at 08:08:47 im using a raptor petcock :-[ |
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Title: Re: WOT lean issue Post by Serowbot on 04/20/10 at 08:32:57 [quote author=0A01020D010E600 link=1271686217/15#22 date=1271776127]im using a raptor petcock :-[/quote] So that vacuum tap on the carb is blocked off, airtight,... right?... |
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Title: Re: WOT lean issue Post by jabman on 04/20/10 at 08:39:27 i put a rubber cover over it with a zip tie ill try something better but i still had this issue with the stock one i think |
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Title: Re: WOT lean issue Post by Serowbot on 04/20/10 at 09:28:39 I'm asking because it seems like you may be compensating for a huge air leak with jets that big.... Also check around the circumference of the intake manifold (rubber tube that connects the carb to the engine) for cracks... you can spray some wd-40 on it while the engine is idling and see if the idle changes... if it does, the wd-40 is temporarily sealing an air leak... |
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Title: Re: WOT lean issue Post by jabman on 04/20/10 at 09:33:34 that sounds easy ill do that on my next ride im going to pull the tank off to examine the diaphragm and needle tomorrow if my flight is cancelled, which it almost certainly will be. >:( |
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Title: Re: WOT lean issue Post by Yonuh Adisi on 04/20/10 at 09:43:06 [quote author=515A59565A553B0 link=1271686217/15#22 date=1271776127]im using a raptor petcock :-[/quote] Okay, cool. In that case try Serowbot's suggestion. |
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Title: Re: WOT lean issue Post by Reelthing on 04/20/10 at 10:14:38 When you get the slide out look over it real good - hold it up to a light - should not be any holes, the rubber edge has a little tab that fits in a slot - this creates a proper seal for the cap - if it's leaking you'll get a big vacuum leak as well, take the top cap off slowly and look under it - was the spring straight up and down or off to one side - this will also keep the slide from going all the way up that's right - there could be a crack in the intake between the carb and the engine creating a big air leak - either the carb isn't seated proper in it's notch or the rubber it self is cracked and when is the ash going to settle out anyway |
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Title: Re: WOT lean issue Post by jabman on 04/20/10 at 23:23:56 ill try and do that today UK airports reopened today, but there's still 6 days of cancelled flights to sort out |
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