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General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Kickstand saftey switch
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Message started by mikelhsr1982 on 04/18/10 at 09:44:50

Title: Kickstand saftey switch
Post by mikelhsr1982 on 04/18/10 at 09:44:50

Im new to the savage community. Im building a bobber and am wondering if I have to have the kickstand saftey switch or the switch that runs to the clutch lever. Or is there a bypass for these? Any help will me much appreciated.

Title: Re: Kickstand saftey switch
Post by dasch on 04/18/10 at 09:53:05

Here:

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1262917566/1#1

Bobbert did a fine job demystifying the harness.

Title: Re: Kickstand saftey switch
Post by Charon on 04/18/10 at 14:19:15

Be aware that removing or disabling safety circuits is a BAD IDEA.

Title: Re: Kickstand saftey switch
Post by T Mack 1 - FSO on 04/18/10 at 17:44:31

The clutch safety switch is a good thing. Being able to start the bike in gear without the clutch lever pulled in has a bunch of high risk "oop's". It is possible using a foglight relay to set it up so that if the neutral light is on the switch is bypassed.

Kickstand switch is debateable. If you bypass it and drive off with the stand down, first left corner you take you'll knock it up, but if that turn is tight leaner, it might cause a momentary bump/jerk in the bike.

Title: Re: Kickstand saftey switch
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/18/10 at 22:57:47

6B12725E5C540E3F0 wrote:

& that momentary Bump/Jerk can be a highside crash. That one is a real safety issue with potentially very serious repercussions.

The clutch thing, ehhh, yea, I can see how it could be a problem, but I cant wrap my head`around it being such a huge deal.

Title: Re: Kickstand saftey switch
Post by Charon on 04/19/10 at 07:12:51

I don't particularly like Suzuki's way of using the clutch safety switch. I would prefer it allowed the engine to crank and start with the clutch lever out, if and only if the transmission is in neutral. It should certainly inhibit the starter if the transmission is in gear. I feel certain I could figure out a way to do that, but even if I did I would not tell anyone else how to do it. Call it selfish, if you will, but I don't intend to tell anyone how to disable a safety circuit. I spent too many years working in safety-related jobs, and reading "accident" reports.

Title: Re: Kickstand saftey switch
Post by Routy on 04/19/10 at 07:40:58

Quote:
I don't particularly like Suzuki's way of using the clutch safety switch. I would prefer it allowed the engine to crank and start with the clutch lever out, if and only if the transmission is in neutral.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Somehow I'm glad you weren't the saftey engineer for my bike. If I killed the engine at a red lite, I'd hate fighting to find neutral just to restart.

All this saftey stuff, but still, even to this day I can still raise the hood w/ the engine running, and stick my fingers right into the fan,....no guard, no nothing :-/

Title: Re: Kickstand saftey switch
Post by Charon on 04/19/10 at 08:11:30

I suppose I should have been more clear. The clutch safety switch should allow the engine to crank if the clutch lever is pulled, in any gear. To be even safer, the switch should be mounted not on the handlebar, but on the engine case. In that way a broken clutch linkage would be taken into account. The engine should be allowed to crank if the transmission is in Neutral, without regard to the position of the clutch lever. Either way, the engine can crank if the drive train is disengaged, but not if cranking could cause the machine to move.

As far as finding Neutral when stalled at a traffic light, remember back to the Bad Old Days of secondary kick starters. The kick starter worked into the transmission. The clutch had to be engaged to transfer the motion from the transmission to the engine, but if the transmission was in any gear the motorcycle moved, too.

Title: Re: Kickstand saftey switch
Post by mikelhsr1982 on 04/20/10 at 19:25:51

Thanks for all the replies, and after much consideration and for the ease of things, Im just going to leave them the way they are. The only reason I wanted to discard them is to 1. change my levers to sportster levers, and 2. minimize my wiring. Once again. thanks folks

Title: Re: Kickstand saftey switch
Post by Routy on 04/21/10 at 06:35:08

Now we all know the real reason,.... you just want these monkeys off your back ;D

3135373930342F2E6D65646E5C0 wrote:

Title: Re: Kickstand saftey switch
Post by Rocco on 04/21/10 at 07:41:03

i noticed that u don't have to pull the clutch in to start some bikes...that was a weird experience lol

Title: Re: Kickstand saftey switch
Post by Routy on 04/21/10 at 07:52:08

I never had a bike before this one that needed the clutch pulled. But then, I ain't had a bike for 40 years either.
Sure was kinda embarassed tho when I had to call the dealer back to find out how to start it. I rode :oit a couple times before sale, but never tried to start it till I got home.

615C50505C330 wrote:

i noticed that u don't have to pull the clutch in to start some bikes...that was a weird experience lol

Title: Re: Kickstand saftey switch
Post by Serowbot on 04/21/10 at 08:57:41

I did have an intermittent spark miss,... that devolved into a no start over a period of a week... that turned out to be a dirty clutch lever cut-out switch...
So,.. if you have that problem in the future,.. be aware... ;)...

It took me a while to figure it out,.. I was looking for ignition problem...

Title: Re: Kickstand saftey switch
Post by RidgeRunner13 on 04/21/10 at 10:14:53

Since I started riding in the 60's, when there were no safety switches on bikes, tools, or lawn mowers, I was taught how to operate these things safely, by following procedures :).
First start of the day, bike stood up straight, in neutral, clutch out.
Pulling in the clutch puts pressure against a thrust bearing & if you have a performance clutch with heavier springs it makes it worse. ::)

I learned about the thrust bearing thingy using some very high pressure clutches back in 60-70's :'(

BTW, my clutch switch is bypassed using a wire terminal end meant to slide under a screw. Just slid it in the plug, broke off the crimp part & stuck the plug back in the switch. 8-)

I kept the kickstand swich. ;D

Title: Re: Kickstand saftey switch
Post by Charon on 04/22/10 at 14:45:13

Ridgerunner, perhaps you have noticed a few small changes since the '60s. Then, your starting procedure was correct. Then, few bikes had electric starters so starter interlocks were unneeded. Then, kickstarters worked through the transmission, and the clutch lever had to be released to get the engine to turn over, using the kickstarter. Then, the bike pretty much had to be upright, because the rider usually straddled the bike to use the kickstarter. Then, should the transmission happen to be in some gear, operating the kick starter made the bike move and usually didn't result in a start. Should you still be riding a motorcycle of that vintage, your procedure is admirable.

Now, most (road) motorcycles have electric starters and very few still have kickstarters. Since you no longer have to hold the bike up to use ths kickstarter it is very common to see people stand beside the bike, start it up, then put on helmet and gloves while the engine warms a little. Doesn't take much imagination to see a bike - absent safety interlocks - depart on its own. And there have been a goodly number of crashes caused by forgetting to retract sidestands.

Let's discuss procedures. There are proper procedures for almost every task. Pilots use checklists for various stages of flight, yet despite these checklists every year there are unintentional wheels-up landings. Despite variations on "Insure adequate fuel for the intended flight" every year there are unscheduled landings due to fuel exhaustion. The list can go on, but the difficulty is that humans make mistakes. Safety circuits can fail, too, but they usually don't. If properly designed safety systems interfere with your usual way of doing things, it is very likely you are doing something wrong.

Title: Re: Kickstand saftey switch
Post by RidgeRunner13 on 04/22/10 at 20:00:30

Well, excuuuuussse me!
You seem to think safety switches are a good substitute for actually learning the right way to do things. The bike I actually rode the most while learning, starting at age 12, was a 1965 Honda 305 & it did have electric start. If I had EVER started it while standing beside it "getting ready to ride", my riding days would have ended early. Maybe we need another safety switch for the seat like a riding mower? I was taught to be ready to ride & on the bike in control before starting it. As soon as I started rolling my feet were up on the pegs, not dragging the road.

Standing the bike up to start insured that the oil level was where it should be to prevent possible starvation to the cam bearings in the head. Sound like a familiar problem? Having it in neutral with the clutch out does not put a load on a possibly dry thrust bearing. Starting in gear with the clutch in also puts more stress on your starter & battery. All this has to do with engine longevity, just like not revving a cold engine.
Most modern bikes now are fuel injected & don't need warm up time. And my new V-Star is wired so if it is in neutral the clutch doesn't have to be in.

I will continue to start my bikes the way I was trained, & you can continue doing whatever it is you do. What you do is of no concern to me, I don't have to maintain your bike.

BTW, the OP just wanted to know how to bypass a switch, not whether you or I approved of it being done. Warn a person of the dangers involved, then let them decide for themselves if they wish to take the risk involved. Just like the risks of riding a motorcycle at all.

If we're not careful, we'll be 'safety switched' right out of being able to ride at all. :'(

And like I said before, I left the kickstand switch working, it doesn't have the possibility to damage my engine & serves a useful purpose. 8-)

Title: Re: Kickstand saftey switch
Post by Charon on 04/23/10 at 07:06:36

This isn't supposed to be a flame war, but an exchange of ideas and thoughts. I do believe in learning and following proper procedures, and I believe the safety circuits should not be depended on. I also believe if the proper procedures are followed the safety circuits are "transparent" and will not be noticed. If you notice a safety circuit (beyond occasional verification of its function) your procedures need work.