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General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Cranking with ignition lock
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Message started by dasch on 04/18/10 at 09:34:20

Title: Cranking with ignition lock
Post by dasch on 04/18/10 at 09:34:20

Anybody have a working schematics? Crank with the key, like cars.

Title: Re: Cranking with ignition lock
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/18/10 at 11:49:24

Not gonna work out worth a hoot with our iggy switch. A car switch keeps hot to the coil in start & run. You can move the start button anywhere you like, just by running a switch between a hot wire & a spot on the decomp timer. Mine starts w/o touching thestart button on the bars. It will even turn over while the key is in my pocket, wont start, cuz theres no hot to the coil,tho.

Title: Re: Cranking with ignition lock
Post by verslagen1 on 04/18/10 at 12:06:27

some mods just shouldn't be done...

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1268169325/7#7

but let's supposin' you did...
left hand mount in stock location... can't operate clutch at same time, so you can't start while moving or need to be in neutral.
right hand mount... can't operate throttle.

Title: Re: Cranking with ignition lock
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/18/10 at 12:53:37

AFAIC, where the start switch is is where it oughta be. If it was somewhere else, I think everyone would be looking for a mod to get it upo there, where it otta be. That said, I have found that, for the most part, if I twist the grip before it fires, its not gonna start, especially when its cold.
I put the start switch up under the frame on the right side for those times when the start button wouldnt turn it over. There was an electrical gremlin that used to just shut the thing off, going down the road. I never found what it was, but it went away..but Im keeping the switch, JIC!

Title: Re: Cranking with ignition lock
Post by T Mack 1 - FSO on 04/18/10 at 18:37:11

I agree with others if you were planning to move it, not a good idea.

But,..... Maybe as a second start switch. :-?

The way I would do it, two relays. First is the clutch lever bypass while in neutral. (need that to be able to reach down to the switch, but it also very nice when first strting the bike in the morning) Second would be a relay that if in neutral allow power from the new starter switch to engage the second relay's coil to switch power to the starter relay (solenoid). Both would use the gounding function of the neutral siwtch to gate the coil of the relays.

Title: Re: Cranking with ignition lock
Post by dasch on 04/19/10 at 02:32:56

I appreciate the concern, but the intent is something far more profound. Get rid of all three safety mechanisms, keep the neutral light (just light) and stock decomp system. It seems I can hook up the existing lock to initiate decomp/starter sequence on "P" position, with a small diode to prevent cranking forever... That would drop the voltage on the ignitor during cranking by... say a volt! I have to test and see if that works at all.

Title: Re: Cranking with ignition lock
Post by dasch on 04/19/10 at 05:41:44

Or a relay... maybe even better...

Title: Re: Cranking with ignition lock
Post by Charon on 04/19/10 at 07:06:21

I keep repeating, to no apparent avail. Bypassing or eliminating safety circuits is a BAD IDEA.

Title: Re: Cranking with ignition lock
Post by babyhog on 04/19/10 at 07:13:43

1F343D2E33325C0 wrote:

I keep repeating, to no apparent avail. Bypassing or eliminating safety circuits is a BAD IDEA.

Charon, you are always there with the reminder when someone brings up something like this. While I agree with you, some just don't get it. But keep repeating it.... if not for those who don't want to get it, but for those who might otherwise have not given it another thought .... Cheers!

Title: Re: Cranking with ignition lock
Post by Charon on 04/19/10 at 07:16:06

Thanks for the encouragement, Babyhog. I appreciate it.

Title: Re: Cranking with ignition lock
Post by dasch on 04/19/10 at 07:29:03

I already said I appreciate your concern, but this is called topic hijacking ;)
I think I got a solution anyways, will work it a bit, test and post pictures. Whoever wants to do the same thing, post here, I'll help.
Yeah, this will make your bike less safe.

Title: Re: Cranking with ignition lock
Post by T Mack 1 - FSO on 04/19/10 at 07:38:32

6D464F5C41402E0 wrote:

Thanks for the encouragement, Babyhog. I appreciate it.

Chareon,
I agree the safety interlocks are good. Keep up the warnings. It keeps the novice mechanics safe.

The fixer-upper 1986 sportster I have didn't come with any. It was sort of a shock since I don't feel an 1986 bike is all that old and my 82 Honda had the interlocks. I got surprised twice on sunny days where you couldn't see the neutral light too well. Having the bike move when you're not ready is a big risk :o (trust me). I've since added two interlocks to the starting circuit. (1) It has to be either in neutral to start or (2) have the clutch lever in to start. I looked at the kickstand but I'm not sure it would work as well as the Savage's since the stand doesn't get held up as firmly.

Title: Re: Cranking with ignition lock
Post by babyhog on 04/19/10 at 08:06:48

2B2E3C2C274F0 wrote:

Since we've already hijacked your thread, I'd like to explain why I butted in. YOU may understand the risks involved, but this is a public forum, you asked a public question, and you can't control the responses you receive. Hopefully, anyone else wanting to do what you want to do also understands. But just in case, a little word of caution can't be bad. Please don't be offended. It is for other future readers to also be cautioned. Charon is always good about adding warnings, and he sounded frustrated, so I just didn't want him to think that no one cares. That's all. I do apologize to you dasch. Good luck with your efforts!

Title: Re: Cranking with ignition lock
Post by dasch on 04/19/10 at 09:07:38

hey hey, no hardfeelings here, and no need to apologize, please. That's why I put this "gotcha" smiley ;)
What I'm thinking of doing is not safe at all, I 100% agree with charon. But I like cranking with the key too much. And want to get rid of wires. And I rode too many smaller bikes with no safety switches.

Title: Re: Cranking with ignition lock
Post by Charon on 04/19/10 at 10:20:40

For a start (pun intended) the stock switch isn't a particularly good one. That's because it doesn't have a spring return from its PARK position being reused as a START position. For real fun you could even put it in START and remove the key. You probably need to find a switch with OFF, RUN, and START positions, perhaps even from a riding lawn mower. Automotive switches might not work, because many of them are so arranged that the key assembly on the steering column isn't the switch, but operates the switch via a rod through the steering column. Many buses and large trucks still have dash-mount switches, and one of them might work for you.

Title: Re: Cranking with ignition lock
Post by dasch on 04/19/10 at 10:35:51

That's the spirit! ;) I think I know where to find a ditched snow plow, one of those john deere thingys. There's a diesel forklift I've seen somewhere too... I'm back in thinking business... after few months of changing diapers... Good call Charon.