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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> S40 vs Rebel 250 newcomer /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1269757933 Message started by verdesavage on 03/27/10 at 23:32:13 |
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Title: S40 vs Rebel 250 newcomer Post by verdesavage on 03/27/10 at 23:32:13 Hi folks, I'm thinking about buying a motorcycle for recreational crusing. I'm looking at the s40 and the rebel 250 currently. If anyone has owned both bikes I'd welcome opinions about the differences between the two. Basically, I'm looking for a bike that will do highway speeds, that's very easy to work on regarding valve adjustment and oil changes. If you know of a third bike I should be looking at, please mention it. I own a ninja 250 and it's a pain in the butt to work on and adjusting the valves is way more time consuming than I'd like it to be. Please help, I want to be riding by summer 8-) |
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Title: Re: S40 vs Rebel 250 newcomer Post by Serowbot on 03/27/10 at 23:49:47 100% Savage.... I haven't owned a Rebel, but I have ridden and worked on a couple... The Rebel is anemic at highway speeds,(low 70's mph with no headwinds)... the Savage is just minimally adequate, but,... it is adequate(88mph...at least 80mph uphill with a headwind)... ... and the Rebel has valves like toothpicks... I've seen some bent ones, and they look like you could bend them with your thumb... It's a great beginner bike, and mpg commuter,... but, the Savage has 4 times the grunt... very capable on the highway, but not a distance highway cruiser,... it prefers to enjoy the scenery... ;)... Do a very simple "spark plug door" mod, and change the petcock to a Raptor ($30.00),... and the Savage is a maintenance dream... If you feel you need more than that,... I'd recommend going to a 650 DP bike for maximum power with easier maintenance than your Ninja... Look for Screw adjustable valves (not bucket and shim) and air-cooling for easiest maintenance... Hydraulic valves would be easiest, but I don't know of an air-cooled single with hydraulic valves... Harley Sportsters have hydraulic valves, single carb, and air-cooling, but are way overweight (200lbs more than a Savage, and top heavy) and tend to be unreliable... |
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Title: Re: S40 vs Rebel 250 newcomer Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/28/10 at 00:11:22 The Reb weighs nearly what the Savage weighs. |
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Title: Re: S40 vs Rebel 250 newcomer Post by kimchris1 on 03/28/10 at 05:58:36 I have owned both. Prior to my S-40 purchase last July, I owned and rode the Rebel for almost 2 years. Great beginner bike. Never left me stranded. Would recommend for a beginner. Now for the S-40. More zip, better handling in the wind. Handles the hills better and I love the cornering this bike can do. Drawback vs Rebel.. No dipstick, speedometer is on tank and not on handlebars. no trip meter. But then again more zip. I loved my Rebel but am in love with my S-40... The S-40 allows me to keep up with hubby more as he doesn't call me "pokey" as often now.. ;D ;D ;D ;D |
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Title: Re: S40 vs Rebel 250 newcomer Post by Rockin_John on 03/28/10 at 07:49:46 Highway Speeds? I wouldn't even consider a Rebel in the same league as a Savage; unless it was one of the old 450cc versions; then it might be worthy of consideration. In fact, if a reasonable priced Rebel 450 came available close to me, I don't know if I could resist trying one. |
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Title: Re: S40 vs Rebel 250 newcomer Post by Charon on 03/28/10 at 11:10:18 I have an S40 and a 2007 Ninja 250. I have not had a 250 Rebel. I suspect you will find either the S40 or the Rebel somewhat of a disappointment after the Ninja. Valve adjustment on the Ninja is a pain, but valve adjustment on the S40 is no pleasure either. Battery replacement on the Ninja is easier. Oil and filter change is a wash. The S40 calls for retorquing the head bolts every 4000 miles, and depending on tolerances on the frame and engine this might call for removal of the engine (if you do it - few do). The brakes on the Ninja are much better. Fuel range on the Ninja nears 200 miles - the S40 is about 100 miles per tank. If you like a tach, forget either the S40 or the Rebel. Suspension on the S40 is harsh. The speedometer on the S40 is on the fuel tank, which means you have to look further down to check it, and a tank bag will cover it up anyway. The S40 has no trip meter. With those comments, I do enjoy riding the S40. I have taken it for a couple of fairly long rides (400 mile days) and it does just fine. You do have to keep an eye on your fuel state. There are some parts of Nebraska where fuel stops are widely spaced. I have not yet ridden the Ninja that far in one day, but I will comment that the engine on the Ninja is considerably smoother. |
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Title: Re: S40 vs Rebel 250 newcomer Post by bill67 on 03/28/10 at 11:15:41 You mean a small twin engine is smoother than a big single,Thats surprising ::) |
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Title: Re: S40 vs Rebel 250 newcomer Post by BurnPgh on 03/28/10 at 11:19:11 I started on a Reb250 and moved up to the savage as an easy step up. Savage is only about 40lbs heavier. I wish Id just started on the savage. Rebel is too weak for extended highway riding. The savage can at least keep up with all legal speeds and then some. Gas mileage isnt as good but its pretty close and the savage is more fun. They can both be had used for similar prices. |
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Title: Re: S40 vs Rebel 250 newcomer Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 03/28/10 at 11:21:25 Three years ago I came back into riding after a layoff of 40 years (no typo - 40 years). I really thought I wanted a Rebel. When I refer to Rebel, I mean the 250. The 450s were nice in their day, but they are all ancient now and parts are getting really hard to find. I borrowed a Rebel for a few weeks, and then I took the safety course using one for the school and the test, bacause back when I quit riding in 1968, there was no endorsement - you just needed a regular driver's license. The S40 I own, a 2006 model, is ideal for me. No serious freeway riding, but lots of riding on rural roads where I can easily cruise comfortably at 55 - 60, and enjoy a few twisties. The frame size of both the Rebel and the S40 are nearly the same, as is the seat height. The Rebel is just too anemic - the S40 has that wonderful torque when you want it in traffic or for hills. The Rebel just doesn't measure up. The only two advantages to the Rebel are the fact that since it has a twin cylinder engine, it's smoother at higher rpm than the thumper engine of the S40, and of course, the gas mileage is better, as some Rebel owners report upwards of 75 - 80 mpg.But other than those two areas, a Rebel isn't in the same league as an S40. |
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Title: Re: S40 vs Rebel 250 newcomer Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 03/28/10 at 11:27:35 I also meant to add that IMHO you don't need to do any mods at all to an S40 unless you just like to tinker. It is a fine bike in showroom, stock form. Mine has a windshield, and I wouldn't do without one, but that's not really a mod to me. Mine also has a Sportster muffler put on by the previous owner, but as soon as I can find my OEM muff, in my basement with piles of other stuff, it's going back on. I don't really like the loudness of the Sportster muff. |
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Title: Re: S40 vs Rebel 250 newcomer Post by LostArtist on 03/28/10 at 11:47:38 s40 all the way, it's the same weight and height and size of the rebel but it's a bit faster and just as dependable and when you decide you want a bigger bike you'll be more comfortable and able to move into a 1000 cc or more area more comfortably |
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Title: Re: S40 vs Rebel 250 newcomer Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/28/10 at 12:07:41 Anyone ever screw up, leaving a stop sign & seeing something coming, closer, faster than you thought? Thats when having a bike that has some Punch can really be a good thing. Or, you can just make sure you never screw up.. |
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Title: Re: S40 vs Rebel 250 newcomer Post by Bigzuk on 03/28/10 at 12:14:14 If you know of a third bike I should be looking at, please mention it. If you just must stay with a 250, I thought I would bring up a point about the Rebel. My 16 year old 6' tall Son looked at the Rebel and found it is too small for his long legs. We wound up with a 250 Yamaha Virago v-twin that (sorry savage riders) sets better than my savage with a great seat and leg position. The 250 yamaha will not keep up with the savage from 0 - 60 but every time we ride, time I run up to 60 wiggle my but and feet into place and settle in he is right up with me. He never falls back on any ride below 75 mph. When I first test rode it I was shocked at how well it worked with my 200+ lbs at even interstate speeds. All that said and with all predujuice I think a ninja rider should get the savage / s40 ;D Bigzuk |
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Title: Re: S40 vs Rebel 250 newcomer Post by babyhog on 03/29/10 at 08:18:19 Love my S40 and agree with all the comments above. But no one mentioned the best advantage... SuzukiSavage.com! The Rebel may have a forum too, but you won't find a better group of supportive people than right here!! Other bikes... The Eliminator is a Kawasaki, right? I think its 250. And I believe Kawi also makes a 500, or at least did, the Vulcan 500, I think its nice. |
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Title: Re: S40 vs Rebel 250 newcomer Post by adj_jaker on 03/29/10 at 09:10:40 557E77647978160 wrote:
S40 gets 100 miles per tank? What moped gas tank are you using on your bike? :P |
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Title: Re: S40 vs Rebel 250 newcomer Post by babyhog on 03/29/10 at 09:30:27 153E343A2D5F0 wrote:
S40 gets 100 miles per tank? What moped gas tank are you using on your bike? :P[/quote] I think concensus is re-fueling at around 100 miles with a stock Savage/S40 tank. The tank is only 2.8 gallons, including the reserve of .6 gallons. That's only 2.2 gallons before having to hit reserve. If you get 50 mpg, that's 110 miles. Having said that, the last time I re-fueled, I was at 101 miles since the last fill-up. It only took 1.295 gallons, which averages to almost 78mpg. I'm pretty sure I filled it to about the same place... although my hubby usually does the filling for me. But I filled it pretty good, expecting to pump more than that. Anyway, I'm not sure what my gas mileage has been averaging. Might be able to stretch 150 miles on a tank, but 100 is easier to remember.... and rest butt! |
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Title: Re: S40 vs Rebel 250 newcomer Post by bill67 on 03/29/10 at 10:04:46 I go on reserve at about 135 miles. |
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Title: Re: S40 vs Rebel 250 newcomer Post by serenity3743 on 03/29/10 at 14:03:19 I fill up every 100 miles and don't get down to reserve. 100 miles is also about when my buttocks need recuperation. |
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Title: Re: S40 vs Rebel 250 newcomer Post by verdesavage on 03/30/10 at 06:27:06 I sure appreciate the responses. My wife just got a rebel and I must say after doing a quick maintenance that it's absolutely simple to work on and a breeze to check the valves. I didnt go any faster than 55 on the test drive of her bike but I found the torque very nice on take off (almost comparable to the ninja). Looking in the mirror, I noticed the cars behind me fade quickly as I pulled away from them at the light. I dont know how her bike performs at higher speeds but at low speeds I was completely satisfied. If the S40 has considerable more grunt at low speeds than the rebel, I'm sure it will it will win points there. The determining factors of buying an S40 will likely toss around in my mind for the next couple of weeks, contemplating fuel economy, valve adjustments and the mentioned cylinder head retorquing (not liking that part). In the rebel service manual, I didnt see anything about cylinder head retorquing. Hate to say it but as far as fuel economy goes the rebel scores searious points there from what I'm reading. I don't mind turning wrenches and I'm competent in that area but I don't have a garage so open engine wrenching needs to be quick... I wont miss the ninja. It's a great bike but those valve adjustments alone are the main reason I'm getting rid of it. It's simply a pain in the rear to do (especially if a gust of wind stirs up dirt and the rushing and cussing starts). :-[ This is what's also keeping me from buying a much larger cc bike. Although I hear somebody makes a bike with hydraulic valves. :o Maintenance as far as cables, chains/belts, oil changes etc is normally fun stuff and allows the owner time to appreciate and bond with the bike. Valve adjustments on the other hand can cause an owner to get rid of the bike if it ends up taking hours to do (ninja). Anyhoo, thanks for the replies and YES you are a great bunch of guys :) |
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Title: Re: S40 vs Rebel 250 newcomer Post by bill67 on 03/30/10 at 08:21:14 2E2D2C212339400 wrote:
Suzuki makes a 250 with dual header exhaust' They run a 2 into 1 pipe |
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Title: Re: S40 vs Rebel 250 newcomer Post by jef.savage on 03/30/10 at 09:07:02 Suzuki makes two 250 singles. The GZ250 and the TU250. I'm wondering why they put a two into one exhaust on an engine that they describe as "single cylinder, SOHC, 2-valve engine with Twin Dome Combustion Chamber (TDCC)"? The photos look like the engines on the two bikes use the same bottom end with different cylinders and heads. |
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Title: Re: S40 vs Rebel 250 newcomer Post by Charon on 03/31/10 at 10:02:03 Kawasaki's 500 Vulcan is liquid cooled, and would likely be just as much fun as your Ninja for routine maintenance. I do not know whether it uses screw and lock nut valve adjusters, but their 500 Ninja does. Kawasaki's Eliminator is a 125 single cylinder, and really isn't in the same league with the 250s. Yes - I have one. It will make 65 mph on a no-wind day, on flat ground, but it is happier at 55. I rode it from central Nebraska to and through the Rocky Mountain National Park. It has better fuel range than the S40, and a trip odometer. If you really are interested in less maintenance, many of the V-twin cruisers have hydraulic valve adjusters, shaft drive, and electronic fuel injection. Unfortunately, a lot more weight tends to go along with the bigger engines. A lot of Kawasaki's V-twins also require premium fuel, a nuisance. I haven't looked extensively at any of the V-twins, because I don't especially want one of them. Up until a few years ago I had a Honda Twinstar 200. The engine in that is the ancestor of the engine in the 250 Rebel and the 250 Nighthawk. It is a twin, with a 360 crank (both pistons move together). It is not counterbalanced, and at speeds over about 45 (on the Twinstar) the mirrors blurred from vibration. While it did not have the strong pulses of a big single, it actually was a more unpleasant engine for vibration. So, a small twin is not necessarily smoother than a big counterbalanced single such as the S40. The 250 Ninja uses a 180 crank (one piston is up while the other is down) and a counterbalance shaft, as did the Suzuki 650 Tempter of many years ago. |
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Title: Re: S40 vs Rebel 250 newcomer Post by 4carbcorvair on 04/01/10 at 07:46:30 I talked to a few bike owners before buying my first bike, my 07 S40. EVERY one of them said to start out with no less than a 500 as you will outgrow it soon. I've very glad I did and jumped on the S40. :) Fuel mileage. I did great before the muffler/jet change. I was getting about 65 mpg. Speed also seems to effect it quit a lot. If I do 70 or above, it sucks the gas. I hit 98 miles and had to hit the reserve, the engine died on the highway. Came back to life after hitting the reserve. If I keep my speeds below 70, it does quite bit better. My normal drving, I fill up every 100 miles. |
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Title: Re: S40 vs Rebel 250 newcomer Post by Rocco on 04/01/10 at 10:18:55 i almost bought a rebel first, as fate would have it the seller turned me down WITH cash in hand! luckily so, as all my friend's said i would have ridden it for a week and would slap a for sale sign on it.....not so with my savage beast! lol |
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Title: Re: S40 vs Rebel 250 newcomer Post by Yonuh Adisi on 04/01/10 at 10:32:59 Most big v-twin riders will say the Savage is a starter bike, but in my opinion the rebel is more of a starter bike than the Savage. I used to own a '85 Rebel 250 when I was a teenager, I outgrew it within a couple of months. |
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Title: Re: S40 vs Rebel 250 newcomer Post by BurnPgh on 04/02/10 at 16:10:43 497F7E65785174796379100 wrote:
Most big v-twin riders will say anything that isnt near, the same, or greater in displacement is a beginner bike. I've had people tell me a 883 sportster is a beginners bike. HA! to that. The rebel really is a beginners bike though. Had it one summer and got my savage the next spring. |
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Title: Re: S40 vs Rebel 250 newcomer Post by LostArtist on 04/02/10 at 16:45:54 depends on how you define beginner, for me the intimidation of motorcycles was that I couldn't reach the ground on most of them, unless they were very small, rebel size, but I couldn't convince myself to spend 4 years paying off a rebel, so thankfully suzuki makes this s-40 thing, it's great! best starter bike out there, has some power so you don't feel like you need to upgrade right away, I've had a s-40 for a year now and I could handle a bigger bike now, and I want a bigger bike, but I don't NEED a bigger bike, this bike fits me like a glove, a sportster pushes my comfort a little since I can reach the ground but not flat foot, well not really, but I've ridden a victory vegas and that's just a cool bike, but I wouldn't want to learn on one when you have to stop just cause something doesn't feel right, it's a bit harder when you have to reach for all the controls |
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Title: Re: S40 vs Rebel 250 newcomer Post by T Mack 1 - FSO on 04/04/10 at 12:29:32 I had a '82 Honda CM250 Custom. First year of the Twinstar 250 engine that is still used in the Rebel 250. It was a good starter bike. But compare to a LS650 it does not. Power is totally different. Note, I just read that Suzuki TU-250 (single cylinder 250) now has fuel injection. Hmmmmm ... trial on the 250, move up to the 650 (I can dream can't I ?? ) T.Mack |
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Title: Re: S40 vs Rebel 250 newcomer Post by Digger on 06/01/10 at 20:37:02 My daughter got a Rebel about seven or eight years ago when she was in high school. I rode it a bit and liked it....nice and smooth. However, I noticed that my knees hit the handlebars in tight turns(!) I'm 5' 10" with a 32" inseam.....not a real big guy. For a male adult beginner, I think the Savage is a better starter bike than is the Rebel by far! |
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Title: Re: S40 vs Rebel 250 newcomer Post by MMRanch on 06/01/10 at 21:19:02 I've had both and like them both. The 250 looses speed going up hills and the savage gains speed going up hill. I refer to my savage as a 250 weight bike , that doesn't loose speed going up hill all the time. also I sold my 250 rebel to my little brother and after 20,000 miles it was flat wore-out ! My savage just rolled over 35,000 and is a strong as ever. Get the 650 cc , 352 lbs , fun machine .... you'll never find another bike like it . I've had 30 + bikes (big and little) and my bike of choice is the Savage. My other bike is a 1200 Sportster (2004, 7,000 miles) , but the Savage gets rode 80% of the time, its more fun ! |
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Title: Re: S40 vs Rebel 250 newcomer Post by John_D FSO on 06/02/10 at 05:16:48 6162636E6C760F0 wrote:
Yeah, there's a Vulcan 500, or at least there was; not sure if it's still in the lineup. Side by side twin, liquid cooled. From what everyone says, it's basically a Ninja engine and trans in a cruiser frame. Should be pretty fun, but I suspect you'd run into the same valve adjusting situation. :-/ |
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Title: Re: S40 vs Rebel 250 newcomer Post by Boule’tard on 06/02/10 at 08:04:50 6C7375726F6859695961737F34060 wrote:
Anyone ever screw up, getting on the freeway, & seeing something coming, closer, faster than you thought? That's when you really need to goose it and appreciate a 650. Sure a 250 will get on the freeway, but the lack of power really makes you nervous when traffic is heavy, fast, full of rude tailgaters. You need good acceleration FROM the maximum speed you want to cruise at. Ask the same "this vs. that" question on a Honda Rebel forum, and watch the conclusion go the other way.. things like the better gas mileage and longer cam chain life will have much greater importance. But then there are gobs of simple, easy to maintain bikes that do wonderfully in town, and they're thumpers.. Yamaha XT225 or TW200, Honda CRF230L, Kawasaki Sherpa. My brother had a Rebel-engined Nighthawk 250 and it was a fun bike to putt around on. But not as fun as a single. Sure, singles generally vibrate more, but it is a lot less annoying, lower frequency vibe. I had a 400cc Yamaha twin that was quite powerful for its size... it would get on the highway no problem.. but I hated it. It had the worst of both worlds.. whiny character, but not the super performance of an inline 4. If I was going to put up with the character of a multi, I'd get a 4 cylinder sportbike that can really blast off. So for maximum fun and ease of maintenance, I say go with an air cooled thumper. A small one for in town riding, or a Savage for highway use. ;) When you were a kid and your parents were making you mow the lawn, didn't you want to co-opt the lawnmower engine, mount it in a minibike and take off? To me, that's what thumpers are all about. :D |
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Title: Re: S40 vs Rebel 250 newcomer Post by Paladin. on 06/02/10 at 08:37:49 Used at reserve, about 2.2 gallons: city stop/start WOT stop/start I get about 45mpg -- 99 miles. normal city usage, probably 55mpg -- 122 miles riding highway/Interstate 65-70mph 60-65mpg -- 132-143 miles Across the Mojave, 50-55mph, 70mpg -- 154 miles. Used full to the rim to last drop and you are pushed I get 2.93 gallons. A 60-65 mph I can get 65mph -- 190 miles. (The West likes bigger tankage. My Fiat 236 Van Camper did 20mpg and my custom second tankage carried 50 gallons total -- 1000 miles.) |
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