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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> spark plug ? /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1269377435 Message started by Rocco on 03/23/10 at 13:50:35 |
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Title: spark plug ? Post by Rocco on 03/23/10 at 13:50:35 so i'm lookin up cross reference charts for my friend's newly acquired 750 vulcan, it's an 86 with an unknown amount of miles, but for garage kept 1000 bucks isn't too bad. well i'm looking @ the plugs his takes "ngk dp7ea-9" when i grabbed the plug i took out of the savage and replaced with an autolite it said "dpr7ea-9"....are they the same plug? and is this the correct plug for the savage? i bought her with that plug in it, so it obviously worked....just curious! |
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Title: Re: spark plug ? Post by verslagen1 on 03/23/10 at 22:20:03 http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1107534689/7#7 http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?board=tech;action=display;num=1126253987 http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1246166854/0#0 seek and ye shall find... |
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Title: Re: spark plug ? Post by Rocco on 03/24/10 at 07:27:16 hmmmm so the chart says dpr8! this one says dpr7....hmmmm that's weird.... |
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Title: Re: spark plug ? Post by LostArtist on 03/24/10 at 08:03:25 my owners manual says NGK Denso DPR7EA-9 X22EPR-U9 DPR8EA-9 X24EPR-U9 I have a 2008 s40 I just replaced the original NGK DRP8EA-9 with a DPR7EA-9 |
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Title: Re: spark plug ? Post by widave on 03/24/10 at 10:03:25 665B57575B340 wrote:
I believe the difference is one is a hotter range plug the other is a colder range plug. |
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Title: Re: spark plug ? Post by Rocco on 03/24/10 at 12:35:26 ooooooooh! ok, now it makes sense lol sorry, it took me a little while!!! :o |
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Title: Re: spark plug ? Post by serenity3743 on 03/24/10 at 13:17:03 So which plug is hotter? |
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Title: Re: spark plug ? Post by bill67 on 03/24/10 at 13:34:13 Lower number is hotter |
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Title: Re: spark plug ? Post by serenity3743 on 03/25/10 at 07:45:56 404B4E4E1415220 wrote:
The last number, or the number in the middle? |
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Title: Re: spark plug ? Post by bill67 on 03/25/10 at 08:00:04 The last numbers are the same, Its the one in the middle |
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Title: Re: spark plug ? Post by serenity3743 on 03/25/10 at 08:15:02 Thanks, Bill! |
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Title: Re: spark plug ? Post by LostArtist on 03/25/10 at 08:24:08 what does a hotter or colder spark plug do?? |
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Title: Re: spark plug ? Post by bill67 on 03/25/10 at 08:42:33 It would make the engine run sightly hotter.If old engine that burned oil, the spark plug wouldn't foul out as easy. |
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Title: Re: spark plug ? Post by Rockin_John on 03/25/10 at 08:52:37 6B6065653F3E090 wrote:
And the reason why "hotter" plugs don't foul easily is NOT because they "spark" hotter; but because they hold and don't dissipate the heat generated as well as a colder plug. Best to run stock heat range plug unless: Hotter: For old engine which burns oil and fouls plug(s) - but it runs risk of burning piston/rings/valves; but if engine is about worn out anyways... maybe worth the risk. Colder: Running a good engine under extreme stress: high RPM (racing) colder plug reduces chance of pitting a hole in the piston or burning valves. OTOH, Increased chances of fouling plugs and loosing your engine's "tuning" In the case of a single cylinder like the Savage, that can mean: She won't run cuz the plug is dirty. This is a really short version of general spark plug theory. There's a whole science behind it. Regards, John |
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Title: Re: spark plug ? Post by Gort on 03/25/10 at 09:05:14 From "Wikipedia, the Free Encyclopedia" Heat range The operating temperature of a spark plug is the actual physical temperature at the tip of the spark plug within the running engine. This is determined by a number of factors, but primarily the actual temperature within the combustion chamber. There is no direct relationship between the actual operating temperature of the spark plug and spark voltage. However, the level of torque currently being produced by the engine will strongly influence spark plug operating temperature because the maximum temperature and pressure occurs when the engine is operating near peak torque output (torque and RPM directly determine the power output). The temperature of the insulator responds to the thermal conditions it is exposed to in the combustion chamber but not vice versa. If the tip of the spark plug is too hot it can cause pre-ignition leading to detonation/knocking and damage may occur. If it is too cold, electrically conductive deposits may form on the insulator causing a loss of spark energy or the actual shorting-out of the spark current. A spark plug is said to be "hot" if it is a better heat insulator, keeping more heat in the tip of the spark plug. A spark plug is said to be "cold" if it can conduct more heat out of the spark plug tip and lower the tip's temperature. Whether a spark plug is "hot" or "cold" is known as the heat range of the spark plug. The heat range of a spark plug is typically specified as a number, with some manufacturers using ascending numbers for hotter plugs and others doing the opposite, using ascending numbers for colder plugs. The heat range of a spark plug (i.e. in scientific terms its thermal conductivity characteristics) is affected by the construction of the spark plug: the types of materials used, the length of insulator and the surface area of the plug exposed within the combustion chamber. For normal use, the selection of a spark plug heat range is a balance between keeping the tip hot enough at idle to prevent fouling and cold enough at maximum power to prevent pre-ignition leading to engine knocking. By examining "hotter" and "cooler" spark plugs of the same manufacturer side by side, the principle involved can be very clearly seen; the cooler plugs have more substantial ceramic insulators filling the gap between the center electrode and the shell, effectively carrying off the heat, while the hotter plugs have less ceramic material, so that the tip is more isolated from the body of the plug and retains heat better. Heat from the combustion chamber escapes through the exhaust gases, the side walls of the cylinder and the spark plug itself. The heat range of a spark plug has only a minute effect on combustion chamber and overall engine temperature. A cold plug will not materially cool down an engine's running temperature. (Too hot of a plug may, however, indirectly lead to a runaway pre-ignition condition that can increase engine temperature.) Rather, the main effect of a "hot" or "cold" plug is to affect the temperature of the tip of the spark plug. It was common before the modern era of computerized fuel injection to specify at least a couple of different heat ranges for plugs for an automobile engine; a hotter plug for cars which were mostly driven or cars which were mostly driven slowly around the city, and a colder plug for sustained high speed highway use. This practice has, however, largely become obsolete now that cars' fuel/air mixtures and cylinder temperatures are maintained within a narrow range, for purposes of limiting emissions. Racing engines, however, still benefit from picking a proper plug heat range. Very old racing engines will sometimes have two sets of plugs, one just for starting and another to be installed once the engine is warmed up, for actually driving the car. |
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Title: Re: spark plug ? Post by Rocco on 03/25/10 at 09:32:01 so was i wrong with puttin an autolite 4163 in? |
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Title: Re: spark plug ? Post by bill67 on 03/25/10 at 09:37:49 Not if it was the right number. |
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Title: Re: spark plug ? Post by Rocco on 03/25/10 at 10:47:59 i think that's what the match up is for our bikes, she runs good so i guess so lol |
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Title: Re: spark plug ? Post by Rockin_John on 03/25/10 at 23:06:37 5467617D6067150 wrote:
And there's a good longer version of what I said above cut-n-pasted via Wiki. There is still a good book worth of science behind these simplified explanations... Thanks for the closer look Gort. |
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Title: Re: spark plug ? Post by Rockin_John on 03/25/10 at 23:20:50 58656969650A0 wrote:
As long as the cross reference charts say they're the same heat range; no damage will be done. Otherwise you get into the plug fouling or possible engine damage issues. Really, one range hotter/colder usually isn't that big of a deal unless you combine it with an already too lean of fuel mixture or ignition or valve timing issues etc... then it can be a little more critical. If anyone gets into messing with plug heat ranges, either intentionally or accidentally; the easy way to easy your worries is to pull the plug a few times and "read" the plug. Looking down in the cylinder and combustion chamber at the piston and valves is nice to do too if you have the ability to do so. Unfortunately most of us novices don't have the equipment to do such things. However, I recently noticed that Harbor Freight is bringing down the cost of internal inspection camera technology! http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=66550 $150 is incredible compared to just a few years ago! |
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Title: Re: spark plug ? Post by Rocco on 03/26/10 at 12:43:16 the autolite 4163 is the equal to the standard heat range, if i want the one hotter then that it's the 4162....glad i'm not toasting anything lol i really like being able to get oil, car parts, paint and plugs from the same place. if i could find a fram oil filter for our bike i'd be so happy!! but buyin spark plugs 2 for 3 dollars is really nice, hence the autolites lol |
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Title: Re: spark plug ? Post by RidgeRunner13 on 03/26/10 at 13:05:34 774A464E4C4B7A6F4A4D4B250 wrote:
As long as the cross reference charts say they're the same heat range; no damage will be done. Otherwise you get into the plug fouling or possible engine damage issues. Really, one range hotter/colder usually isn't that big of a deal unless you combine it with an already too lean of fuel mixture or ignition or valve timing issues etc... then it can be a little more critical. If anyone gets into messing with plug heat ranges, either intentionally or accidentally; the easy way to easy your worries is to pull the plug a few times and "read" the plug. Looking down in the cylinder and combustion chamber at the piston and valves is nice to do too if you have the ability to do so. Unfortunately most of us novices don't have the equipment to do such things. However, I recently noticed that Harbor Freight is bringing down the cost of internal inspection camera technology! http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=66550 $150 is incredible compared to just a few years ago![/quote] I bought one of those 6 months ago & while it's handy for looking in tight spots, it won't fit down a spark plug hole. It's tricky to use because the camera is hard to control. But, I got mine on sale for $90 & it's worth the $$$$ to me. Great for looking in car doors to check for damaged window regulators without taking the door apart & looking on the firewall side of sideways engines. 8-) |
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Title: Re: spark plug ? Post by Rockin_John on 03/26/10 at 15:27:24 7D404C4C402F0 wrote:
FWIW, A couple of years ago I bought some Autolite plugs as spares to put in the tool bag on each bike. I think it was Reelthing who suggested they were an adequate temporary substitute for the expensive plugs. Good thing I carried them too, as one day I wet fouled a plug on the old 87 and no amount of drying it off would make the bike run good enough to get back out on the road. Dropped the Autolite in it, and bingo... Come to think of it, I'm sure that plug is still in old purple. (She looks almost exactly like the one on the front of the Clymer's manual!) I almost never ride that bike, and it still has less than 7k original miles on it! Anyways, my point is: I don't see anything wrong with the $2-$3 Autolite plugs. I've run them in my other vehicles and equipment for long periods of time with no problems. |
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Title: Re: spark plug ? Post by Rocco on 03/26/10 at 21:03:21 good to know! i have some friends who swear by them, i'll check it soon, but i'm almost positive it'll be a long while before i need to put a new one in! |
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Title: Re: spark plug ? Post by RadRacer on 03/27/10 at 13:52:21 i know it cost more than u probably care to spend on a spark plug but this is what ive been using for the last 15k miles http://www.nology.com/silver.html B2S is our replacement plug and it has a smaller socket so your plug wrench wont get stuck trying to get spark plug out either.Maybe after reading this u guys might stop running iridium plugs lol |
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Title: Re: spark plug ? Post by verslagen1 on 03/27/10 at 15:03:14 1429252529460 wrote:
Start asking your buddies to save their spin-on filters. Inside each one of them is a cartridge filter. Who knows, maybe some day we'll find one that works. |
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Title: Re: spark plug ? Post by Rocco on 03/28/10 at 20:40:06 i found a fram number that says it's for the savage fram 19-6178...i'm going to investigate this when i go to advance next time....just don't ask the guy behind the counter lol |
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Title: Re: spark plug ? Post by verslagen1 on 03/28/10 at 20:59:31 122F23232F400 wrote:
Old memory, plenty of cobwebs, yuck... yes fram makes a filter for our bike, it has been said that the ends are made out of cardboard rather than metal. If you get it, look it over and let us know. |
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