SuzukiSavage.com - Print Page

SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl
General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Updates on Jetting for Jardine Muffler
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1267155738

Message started by JESPOKER4FUN on 02/25/10 at 19:42:18

Title: Updates on Jetting for Jardine Muffler
Post by JESPOKER4FUN on 02/25/10 at 19:42:18

I will start at the very beginning.

2006 S40 completely stock.
The head pipe was blue from the cylinder to about 6" down.
Backfired only at deceleration and 1 pop at engine shutdown.
Slightly sluggish almost a stumble at 1/4 throttle.

Replaced the stock muffler with the Jardine Rumbler slip-on.
Backfired more at deceleration and louder pop at shutdown.
Still a bit sluggish at 1/4 throttle.
Jetting changes:
145 to 147.5 Main
1/8 to 2 turns on the pilot screw.
This cleared it up alot - loud backfires have been reduced to small pops.
I still have a whoosh at shutdown.
I shaved the plastic washer to 1/2 thickness and went to 2 1/2 turns on the pilot screw.
Excellent power all around, runs very good except for small pops at deceleration and whoosh at shutdown.
So my question is. What do I need to change?
Thanks and sorry for the long post.

Title: Re: Replaced stock muffler w/ Jardine slip-on/Jett
Post by BurnPgh on 02/25/10 at 20:02:40

sounds like you got it just about spot on. Its going to pop and grumble on deceleration no matter what. As long its not gunfire loud its okay. The woosh at shutdown is about as good as its going to get. Shotgun blast at shutdown is the problem. A woosh or "pfoot" as I describe it is entirely normal.

Title: Re: Replaced stock muffler w/ Jardine slip-on/Jett
Post by Routy on 02/26/10 at 05:09:25

That could have been my post exactly,......except a 1/2 spacer and a drilled muffler made it run perfect, no jetting or needle adjust. It's still a little scary on deceleration, and still has the woosh on stopping. But I have never had any bike run better.

Title: Re: Replaced stock muffler w/ Jardine slip-on/Jett
Post by bill67 on 02/26/10 at 05:16:47

Go to 150 main jet up one number on pilot put spacer back in, She will pull strong all the way and get good mpg.And pull like a locomotive from 35 mph in high gear.

Title: Re: Replaced stock muffler w/ Jardine slip-on/Jett
Post by JESPOKER4FUN on 02/26/10 at 18:03:13

Ok, I have been giving this some thought.
Lots of posts say to modify the spacer on the jet needle. (reduce the thickness)
I am guessing this is supposed to make it run richer, correct?
Well the problem I saw when I shaved down the spacer is that the needle position will not change due to the fact that the hole in the hold down plate is not large enough to allow the needle to pass through it and move upwards. I think I will have to drill the hole bigger in the hold down plate.
Please correct me if I am wrong about this.

Title: Re: Replaced stock muffler w/ Jardine slip-on/Jett
Post by Reelthing on 02/26/10 at 21:33:07

4F4056554A4E40573143504B050 wrote:

Well, it works like this - in the good old days of about 1986 or 87 these needles had 3 slots where the c-clip goes - stock was in the center and if you needed the a richer fuel pattern you would lower the c-clip to the 3rd slot which would make the needle shorter , if you needed a leaner fuel pattern you would raise the c-clip to the 1st slot longer.

The length and taper of the needle control the fuel pattern through the needle jet tube - the tube is what needle fits into and at the bottom of the needle tube is where the main jet lives.

If you have a shorter needle it opens the needle jet sooner/faster than a longer needle - as the needle is lifted out of the needle jet tube as the slide goes up.

In the case of the white spacer being made thiner we are doing is the same thing as moving the c-clip down about a half of a notch.

Make sense?

Title: Re: Replaced stock muffler w/ Jardine slip-on/Jett
Post by JESPOKER4FUN on 02/27/10 at 00:23:10

Yes, what you said makes sense.
I know how the clip position works.
What I am saying is, the needle will not move upward when the top plate rests against the top of the needle.

My spacer was flush with the top of the needle and the plate rests on the top of the needle. Shaving the spacer or even removing the spacer will not do anything because the plate is holding the needle down.

Title: Re: Replaced stock muffler w/ Jardine slip-on/Jett
Post by Reelthing on 02/27/10 at 01:22:52

The needle does not move up it is "fixed" to the slide - well mostly fixed it can wiggle around some - helps it stab the needle jet tube when it goes back in.

Ok a picture from this posting

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?board=tech;action=display;num=1098869040

are you saying the needle is too big for the top of it to
go through the hole in the plate with the dimple on it?

http://suzukisavage.com/images/uploaded/JetsEtc01web.jpg

Title: Re: Replaced stock muffler w/ Jardine slip-on/Jett
Post by JESPOKER4FUN on 02/27/10 at 08:14:54

Yes, that is correct. The diameter of the needle is too big. I will need to make the hole in the plate larger.
Thanks for understanding my situation.
I can see the plate in the pic, it looks like the hole is bigger than my plate.

Title: Re: Replaced stock muffler w/ Jardine slip-on/Jett
Post by Reelthing on 02/27/10 at 09:38:39

what year is your bike ?

Title: Re: Replaced stock muffler w/ Jardine slip-on/Jett
Post by JESPOKER4FUN on 02/27/10 at 10:10:36

2006

Title: Re: Replaced stock muffler w/ Jardine slip-on/Jett
Post by Reelthing on 02/27/10 at 12:29:58

It would be interesting to know if that is a common situation on later model carbs - a '95 and a '02 here and put the tune on a couple others '04s maybe

Title: Re: Replaced stock muffler w/ Jardine slip-on/Jett
Post by JESPOKER4FUN on 02/27/10 at 12:47:29

I am going to open up the carb again tommorow. I will include some pics of the plate and the needle.

Title: Re: Replaced stock muffler w/ Jardine slip-on/Jett
Post by Reelthing on 02/27/10 at 13:03:12

by the way - no idea how your engine will act - but the '95 I have with a Jardine really runs well with the stock air cleaner, 152.5 main, stock pilot, "1/2 a spacer" - seems I mic'd it at the time - at sealevel here

the 147.5 was too lean

Title: Re: Replaced stock muffler w/ Jardine slip-on/Jett
Post by JESPOKER4FUN on 02/27/10 at 13:26:08

I have the stock air filter in. The altitude is 1867'
Using the stock pilot.
I think I will be able to clean it up with the pilot screw, once I drill the hole in the plate.

Title: Re: Replaced stock muffler w/ Jardine slip-on/Jett
Post by siriusjoe on 02/27/10 at 23:58:10

0334343D2539383F36510 wrote:

the '95 I have with a Jardine really runs well with the stock air cleaner

Title: Re: Replaced stock muffler w/ Jardine slip-on/Jett
Post by JESPOKER4FUN on 02/28/10 at 00:08:08

It is much louder than the stock pipe.
If you really get on the throttle it is loud but it sounds great.
I have heard of people drilling the baffle for even more sound. Not needed.
Overall I think the pipe is great.

Title: Re: Replaced stock muffler w/ Jardine slip-on/Jett
Post by Reelthing on 02/28/10 at 06:12:32

7D677C677B7D64616B0E0 wrote:

[quote author=0334343D2539383F36510 link=1267155738/0#13 date=1267304592]
the '95 I have with a Jardine really runs well with the stock air cleaner

How loud is that Jardine? My wife wants a little more sound out of her S40 so she can hear the engine over the wind noise when riding on the highway. The stock muffler is so quiet that she can't hear the engine at all. She doesn't want it crazy loud, just a bit more than stock.

Joe
[/quote]

I guess it depends on what you think loud is. I have a supertrap on the '02 hotrod with about a dozen discs an open end cap that will drown out most v-twins - it flat screams - the '95 jardine seems rather mellow in comparison - but compared to stock the jardine is pretty loud as the stock pipe is kind a like a put-put-put big lawn mower sound.

Title: Re: Replaced stock muffler w/ Jardine slip-on/Jett
Post by LANCER on 02/28/10 at 10:42:59

Did drilling the plate to allow the needle to move up slightly help the midrange for you ?
I would suggest that in addition to the larger main jet mentioned above, that you also try the next larger pilot jet with a retune of the pilot air adjusting screw. It may give you more on the low end and eliminate any pops on decel or shutdown.
It only takes a few minutes to give it a try.

Title: Re: Replaced stock muffler w/ Jardine slip-on/Jett
Post by JESPOKER4FUN on 02/28/10 at 14:15:41

Well here it goes.
I was wrong about the hole being too small. What I did find was a small burr inside the hole not allowing the needle to pass through smoothly. Reamed out the burr and gave that a try with 1/2 spacer.
Better mid range but still was 2 1/2 turns out on the pilot screw.
I removed the spacer and re-adjusted the screw. Not happy with the slight bogg from 1/4 to 1/2 throttle so I will put the 1/2 spacer back in and change the pilot jet from the 52.5 non bleed type to a 55.
Should I use a bleed type or non bleed type pilot? I will also change the 147.5 to a 150 and retune the pilot screw.
Thanks for everyones help.
This is a great forum.

Thanks for all of the help from everyone.

Title: Re: Updates on Jetting for Jardine Muffler
Post by JESPOKER4FUN on 03/04/10 at 16:40:50

Well I have changed the pilot jet from the 52.5 to a 55 and also changed the main jet from 147.5 to a 150.
I used the non bleed type pilot.
I put the shaved shim back in.
Results:
1-2 gear backfires when shifting
2-3 gear backfires when shifting.
This happens if I am just slowly accelerating (riding normal)
If I were to open it up quickly the backfires are minimized.
Cruising in 3rd or 4th @ about 35mph-40mph, the engine really stumbles- acts like it is too rich.
Checked the spark plug before and after.
Before= White at the tip=(Lean) Tan to Brown in the middle and top=(perfect)
This tells me that my pilot circuit is still too Lean.
After= Tan at the tip and very Dark Brown in the middle and top.

I had a long conversation with a friend who works for Dynojet here in Las Vegas. My next step will be to install a Dynojet kit and take it them so we can run it on the Dyno machine.
I will post results next week.

Title: Re: Updates on Jetting for Jardine Muffler
Post by bill67 on 03/04/10 at 16:57:56

That will be neat to see the dyno results.

Title: Re: Replaced stock muffler w/ Jardine slip-on/Jett
Post by siriusjoe on 03/04/10 at 22:37:08

5463636A726E6F6861060 wrote:

compared to stock the jardine is pretty loud as the stock pipe is kind a like a put-put-put big lawn mower sound.

Thanks for the info. I decided to try a Harley Dyna muffler and found some cheap on Ebay. If that doesn't do the trick, I'll try the Jardine next.

Joe