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Message started by Reggie on 02/03/10 at 05:16:28

Title: Three Wheel Options?
Post by Reggie on 02/03/10 at 05:16:28

Okay, the second topic that I searched for info on was trikes, and again, I came up short. I have a 2005 and really like it, but now I have a bad knee and I'm concerned about re-injury when riding (or more precisely, falling over!) I came across a guy with a sidecar on a 2008 and although it looks rather cool, I really didn't like the way it handled. There's also the outrigger "training wheel" systems, but I've also ridden one of those (non-Savage however) and really hated it for low speed handling and in the corners at any speed.

I've also come across this:

http://www.thetrinitytrike.com/roadster/savage/index.html

Has anyone seen or heard about one of these, or know of any other true trike conversion for the S-40's?

TIA!

Title: Re: Three Wheel Options?
Post by Charon on 02/03/10 at 08:37:51

After poking around their website, it looks to me as if you'll be spending about $6-$7K to do the job. Depending on whether you can scrounge up some fenders, wheels, tires, and so forth. Like every such website they claim their stuff is only the best in quality and design, so I tend to disregard those claims.

I would be concerned with the rear brake. Judging by the pictures, there is one brake for the rear axle, and it lives on the differential carrier along with the drive pulley. Old Model T cars had their brake in the transmission, rather than on the wheels. According to my father, when the brake is overapplied (think panic stop) the drive shaft will lock (in this case, the differential carrier). At that moment whichever wheel has less traction will break loose and, as the other wheel continues to roll, spin backwards because of the differential between them. I expect the result would be rather interesting.

In any case, before going any further, I would see if I could find a trike of some sort and drive it. One quirk of a trike is that it has three wheel tracks, unlike a sidecar or automobile. That means it is more difficult to avoid potholes by straddling them.

Title: Re: Three Wheel Options?
Post by Reggie on 02/03/10 at 09:45:12

567D74677A7B150 wrote:

|snip|....

I would be concerned with the rear brake. Judging by the pictures, there is one brake for the rear axle, and it lives on the differential carrier along with the drive pulley. Old Model T cars had their brake in the transmission, rather than on the wheels. According to my father, when the brake is overapplied (think panic stop) the drive shaft will lock (in this case, the differential carrier). At that moment whichever wheel has less traction will break loose and, as the other wheel continues to roll, spin backwards because of the differential between them. I expect the result would be rather interesting.

In any case, before going any further, I would see if I could find a trike of some sort and drive it. One quirk of a trike is that it has three wheel tracks, unlike a sidecar or automobile. That means it is more difficult to avoid potholes by straddling them.

Thanks for your thoughts! Your dad of course was right about the Model T, but since the stopping mechanism (the disk) is actually on the axle itself and not coming thru a drive shaft, I understand that makes a difference. In any case, other straight axle systems (Mystery designs, Frankenstein, etc) use the same type design effectively.

I might be more concerned about the pothole issue, except I no longer live in New England, where the potholes abound, prosper & seemingly reproduce overnight! ;D

Title: Re: Three Wheel Options?
Post by 12Bravo on 02/03/10 at 18:39:38

Trinity Trikes has gotten good reviews on http://www.burgmanusa.com/forums/index.php for their Suzuki Burgman 650 trike kits. I still ride my S40 when I get get my leg over the tank but bought a Burgman 650 for days that I can't. When I can't hold either bike up, I will probably go with a Trinity Trike kit for the Burgman.

Title: Re: Three Wheel Options?
Post by Tanker2Biker on 02/04/10 at 06:20:53

12 Bravo. Is/was that your MOS?

Title: Re: Three Wheel Options?
Post by gerald.hughes on 02/04/10 at 07:11:40

When I was having my hip replacement, I spent some time looking at trikes, just in case. I have to say that this is one of the cleanest conversions that I have seen. I like that it doesn't have cases all over it.

I would have two concerns, one they may have dealt with, and one that is inherent in the bike. With something less than 30 hp, the Suzy may be a little short on power to pull a trike. When I tried a number of different bikes, I found that about 800cc and 50 horse was about the bottom for me, but then I weigh 300 lbs.

A more serious consideration is gas. With the added weight and big tires, you are going to see a significant reduction in mpg. With a 2.8 gallon tank, that could be a big thing. I didn't see if they make provision for an auxiliary tank, but you will probably need one.

Just some thoughts.

Title: Re: Three Wheel Options?
Post by babyhog on 02/04/10 at 12:30:32

Here's a good lookin trike... http://www.hondamotorcycles-usedmotorcycles.com/2004-honda-vtx1800-trike-for-sale.html

Title: Re: Three Wheel Options?
Post by Oldnewguy on 02/04/10 at 12:41:08

I have a voyager kit on my 650. (see avitar) It is a add on and can be removed in a few minutes. It handles well after you get used to steering rather than leaning. Their web site www.mtcvoyager.com has video plus they will send you a DVD. Cost is about 4k. I started riding at 68 and never considered holding up a bike with my old bod. You should also take a look at www.ljtrikes.com. They have an unbelievable line up of real trikes at great prices. The prices are so good and the trikes so fantastic, it makes me wonder about the catch. There are some other great manufacturers out there. Just google.

Title: Re: Three Wheel Options?
Post by 12Bravo on 02/04/10 at 16:32:03

7D4847424C5B191F290 wrote:

12 Bravo. Is/was that your MOS?

Yes I was a combat engineer.

Title: Re: Three Wheel Options?
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/06/10 at 05:30:19

Seriously, I Get the desire to ride, even when the legs start being a hazard, If I was just dead set on staying on a bike, then I guess Id have to go w/ a sidecar, but, I also see me in a little sports car. For less $$$ than a bike & sidecar, there are some older Miattas & Pontiac makes a little 2 seater, convertible. That would make hauling stuff easy & still pretty much "Outside" unless it gets ugly, then raise the top..

Title: Re: Three Wheel Options?
Post by Charon on 02/06/10 at 06:17:27

The ragtop is the approach we took. My wife has had a couple of back surgeries and has had both her knees arthroscoped. She says she likes motorcycles and knows I do. Several years ago we bought a used Pontiac Sunbird convertible, and now she describes it as "our motorcycle." We paid less for it, used, than we'd have paid for any of the trike kits, and on the highway it gets mileage probably better than most trikes and some motorcycles. I still have motorcycles, but none of them including the S40 is really suitable for any sort of long distance two-up riding.

If a convertible interests you, you might want to consider insurance. I have heard that a two-seater costs considerably more to insure than a four-seater. I have never asked the insurance agent, however.

Title: Re: Three Wheel Options?
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/06/10 at 09:29:03

& remember, 2 bikes running side by side, each getting 50 MPG, is like riding in a little convertible, side by side, getting ,, 25 MPG, same fuel costs. Most of those little cars get better than 25, the tires arent crazy to pay for or have mounted,less gear to pay for, all in all, I think a convertible is a good answer. Especially if its for a 2 person trip.

Title: Re: Three Wheel Options?
Post by Trinity Trike on 02/12/10 at 09:23:07

654E47544948260 wrote:

After poking around their website, it looks to me as if you'll be spending about $6-$7K to do the job. Depending on whether you can scrounge up some fenders, wheels, tires, and so forth. <snip>

Actually the out-the-door price (tires, wheels, paint & tax) is never more than $6k. And the last one Trinity just did was right at $5k. The customer was able to take advantage of a Christmas special -- and that included 7% sales tax. Savage projects have been quoted as low as $4.5k for a roll-your-own assembly delivered to the mid-west.

Hi folks, I know all this because I'm Bob Witte, President of The Trinity Trike. All of a sudden, we've had a lot of visitors jumping from this forum over to our website in the last week. So I thought I'd sign in and answer a few questions.

I called the last Savage customer mentioned above to find out how he likes it and to let him know about this forum. Well he does like it as do the other Savage customers. But sadly, none of the guys are "internet surfers".

The first Savage we did was 18 months ago (it is the yellow one on the site). The owner took it up north and when he came back last fall, he decided to do another that he could have one down here as well! So he owns two of them!

Believe it or not, we've built a lot 250cc trikes in the lst 3 years for newbies, but recently we've been encouraging folks to consider the Savage over those bikes. I did 4 Savage quotes in January -- and only one of those folks actually owns a Savage now. There's a much better return on investment with the S40 vs. the 250cc class bikes.

It makes a great trike!

Bob Witte

Title: Re: Three Wheel Options?
Post by Trinity Trike on 02/12/10 at 09:33:36

202235262B23692F32202F2234470 wrote:

Our rear assembly is mostly 6010 aluminum (or above) and therefore very light weight (for the Savage it is just a bit over 120 pounds net increase over the 2 wheeler). Like I said above, we've done a goodly number of 250's sucessfully and that class of bikes are real "weak sisters" in comparison to the Savage.

We've only done a relative handful of Savages. I don't have any before/after MPG figures on them, but based upon our many other conversions where we have some tracking, the MPG "hit" is typically in the 10% range.

Bob Witte
www.TheTrinityTrike.com

Title: Re: Three Wheel Options?
Post by babyhog on 02/12/10 at 11:48:30

Wow, Bob, thanks for taking the time to share some information. That tells me that you care about your business and your customers (and potential customers!) Welcome!

Title: Re: Three Wheel Options?
Post by Yonuh Adisi on 02/12/10 at 13:52:41

I agree with BabyHog, it is very cool that the prez of a company would sign up on a website and give some details of a product mention on said site. Once again, very cool and welcome.

Title: Re: Three Wheel Options?
Post by Trinity Trike on 02/12/10 at 19:08:04

1620213A270E2B263C264F0 wrote:

I agree with BabyHog, it is very cool that the prez of a company would sign up on a website and give some details of a product mention on said site. Once again, very cool and welcome.

Thanks to you both ... but keep in mind that I'm only the President because my partner didn't want the job and that my other functions are bookeeper and shipping clerk!! ;D ;D ;D

Bob Witte
www.TheTrinityTrike.com

Title: Re: Three Wheel Options?
Post by Yonuh Adisi on 02/12/10 at 19:11:05

77514A4D4A575A77514A4846230 wrote:

[quote author=1620213A270E2B263C264F0 link=1265202988/15#15 date=1266011561]I agree with BabyHog, it is very cool that the prez of a company would sign up on a website and give some details of a product mention on said site. Once again, very cool and welcome.

Title: Re: Three Wheel Options?
Post by kimchris1 on 02/14/10 at 05:01:38

Thanks Bob for taking the time to share some info with us. It is nice to know you care so much that we have the right info for perhaps future business dealings.
:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

Title: Re: Three Wheel Options?
Post by Trinity Trike on 02/15/10 at 09:49:58

4E4C48464D574C5614250 wrote:

Thanks Bob for taking the time to share some info with us. It is nice to know you care so much that we have the right info for perhaps future business dealings.
:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

Thanks all of you for the kind words!! In return, let me do something for the gang here.

As you may know, at the present time all of our conversions are all made to order. Since I have a Savage project that looks like it is about to begin, I'll tell you what I'm going to do. Anyone from this forum who wants to trike their bike right now can take advantage the "economy of scale" that I can get from the vendors by doing mulitiple units at once.

Therefore for the rest of this week, I'll guarantee a minimum of a full 10% discount from the regular project cost, and if perchance there's more than just one or two, it could top out at 15% off! If you are interested drop me an email at sales@TheTrinityTrike.com and I'll work up the numbers for you.

Bob Witte
www.TheTrinityTrike.com

Title: Re: Three Wheel Options?
Post by Yonuh Adisi on 02/15/10 at 17:11:48

62445F585F424F62445F5D53360 wrote:

[quote author=4E4C48464D574C5614250 link=1265202988/15#18 date=1266152498]Thanks Bob for taking the time to share some info with us. It is nice to know you care so much that we have the right info for perhaps future business dealings.
:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

Title: Re: Three Wheel Options?
Post by mpescatori on 02/16/10 at 02:30:58

As a European, I've often mused at trikes - I remember them as a kid with chopper forks and VW engines...
8-)
Europeans have taked a completely different route with a siamesed front wheel, such as Piaggio's MP3
http://sunstatemotorcycles.com.au/images/new_bikes/piaggiomp3400.jpg

I like Bob Witte's trike, but have a few concerns.
Where is the rear brake disc bolted? Is it bolted to the rear drive belt pulley? Is there a differential? Is it bolted to a halfshaft?
http://www.thetrinitytrike.com/roadster/savage/icon-full01.jpghttp://www.thetrinitytrike.com/roadster/savage/icon-full02.jpghttp://www.thetrinitytrike.com/roadster/savage/icon-full03.jpg
::)
Also, I find the rear wheels ... "fat". This is, of course, a "European" thing, but as the Savage only has a mere 32bhp (at full throttle) how many bhp will I have at cruising speed, say 60mph =3800rpm? 20-23 bhp?
Would that kind of horsepower be enough to push such fat tires at 60mph without being detrimental to engine efficiency and fuel mileage ?
Would 165x15 "Old Beetle" tires do the job adequately ?

Now, for the nice bits :)

Any chance of having "twin trunks" in place of the saddle bags?
Any chance of a nice, 10 gal. fuel tank on one side, so that the "old tank" can be converted into a handy place to store things, like a glove compartment?

Last...
I can imagine... a trike conversion, 10 gal. fuel tank, twin trunks, and "ride around the world" at the base of the windscreen!
8-) if only... 8-)
PS don't forget that LSD !!! (differential)

Title: Re: Three Wheel Options?
Post by Trinity Trike on 02/16/10 at 03:01:20

6355544F527B5E5349533A0 wrote:

You know what would be cool to see? A pictorial progression of a Savage project for your trike kit.

No problem -- in fact, it's a great idea! I have my digital camera all charged up and ready to go. Order up a conversion on your Savage and I'll click away! ;D

Actually, a Sportster build done a few months ago in Canada was pretty much covered that way. In this case the owner had a number of rather interesting mods done (an electric shifter for example). And there are a lot of similarities between the S40 and the HD build. So until the next in house Savage project I can document in detail comes along, this will have to do ....

http://www.phoenixcycle.com/projects/3trike.htm

Enjoy!!

Bob Witte
www.TheTrinityTrike.com

Title: Re: Three Wheel Options?
Post by Trinity Trike on 02/16/10 at 03:39:17

5C4154425250455E4358310 wrote:

<snip> ... I like Bob Witte's trike, but have a few concerns.
Where is the rear brake disc bolted? Is it bolted to the rear drive belt pulley? Is there a differential? Is it bolted to a halfshaft?

....

Also, I find the rear wheels ... "fat". This is, of course, a "European" thing, but as the Savage only has a mere 32bhp (at full throttle) how many bhp will I have at cruising speed, say 60mph =3800rpm? 20-23 bhp?

Would that kind of horsepower be enough to push such fat tires at 60mph without being detrimental to engine efficiency and fuel mileage? Would 165x15 "Old Beetle" tires do the job adequately ?

Now, for the nice bits :)

Any chance of having "twin trunks" in place of the saddle bags? Any chance of a nice, 10 gal. fuel tank on one side, so that the "old tank" can be converted into a handy place to store things, like a glove compartment?

Last ... I can imagine... a trike conversion, 10 gal. fuel tank, twin trunks, and "ride around the world" at the base of the windscreen!

8-) if only... 8-)

PS don't forget that LSD !!! (differential)

All Trinity Trikes have a full automotive style differential of our own design and manufacture (i.e. NOT a used or rebuilt unit from a car). This means both wheels can turn at different rates in the corners -- a must for good handling! We use a Formula 1 centerline design model with differential itself in the middle, the drive pulley on the left side and the brake disk on the right.

That drive train assembly is sandwiched between two 40mm steel tube axles (again, designed and made by Trinity, not rebuilt from salvage parts) that ride on six double row sealed bearings each of which are rated for over 40,000 lbs of static load! Since each of conversions share commonality of design, poke around our website (link is beneath my signature below) and there are any number of close ups of the rear drive assembly.

Our assembly is so light that even on the many "weak sister" 250cc conversions we have done, they have no great struggle to run at highway speeds. I know from actually doing it that the Savage trike runs smooth and steady at "careless driving" over the legal limits! We've already addressed the MPG's in this thread, so no need to repeat here.

Next, at The Trinity Trike, tires & wheels are always user optional. The 195's shown on the yellow S40 aren't all that "fat", but we usually recommend 175 or 185's on that type of ride. I think the white one also pictured on our site had the 175's. To me, thinner is better, but to a lot of my fellow Americans, "size matters" when it comes to equipment!

As far as trunks & tanks, the simplicy of the Trinity conversion allows you to run wild with whatever customizations you want to do. Go for it!! We're ready when you are (and don't forget this week's special!)

Bob Witte
www.TheTrinityTrike.com