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Message started by Jay on 01/27/10 at 02:00:56

Title: Checked my Cam adjuster
Post by Jay on 01/27/10 at 02:00:56

Well, at 15,229 miles, my adjuster is out 19mm. Guess I'm parking it til I can get a "care package" from verslagen1. Now that I've got her just about the way I want her; I just don't want to risk the possibility of turning my bike into a paperweight.
As for riding style, I'm pretty conservative. I've opened her up a time or two, but I don't make a regular habit of it. Peg scraping? Not so much. I have made several highway trips on her, usually at speeds of 65 - 70mph. No more. As for maintenence, I changed the oil and filter four times in the first 1,000 miles and relegiously every 1,000 miles thereafter. Yes I've been told it's overkill, but I just have this paranoia about an air/oil cooled engine not having fresh, clean oil. I used Yamlube 20/50 until 7,052 miles, and then switched to Rotella T 15/40.
Oh justin_o_guy, my insides have the same powder coat looking stuff as yours. What year is yours agian? Mine is a 2008. Could it be something to do with when they put in the 5 speed?
Well, hope this helps somebody with their adjuster. As always, I couldn't have done it without you guys. The stuff in the tech section made it easy. For now, I'm buttoning her back up and waiting on parts. Weather supposed to be bad anyway. :(

Title: Re: Checked my Cam adjuster
Post by jabman on 01/27/10 at 07:41:26

im crackin mine open this weekend where is it you measure to see how extended the adjuster is?

Title: Re: Checked my Cam adjuster
Post by verslagen1 on 01/27/10 at 09:02:32

The straight cylindrical protion of the plunger that's sticking out of the housing. Measure from the housing to the edge where it tapers down. It's suggested to fix it when it's 18mm (.709" or 23/32") but I've ridden it till it was 22mm but it will oval out the housing.
http://verslagen.savageriders.com/CamChainClub/rogue-cheddar-tensioner-measurement.jpgPicture curtesy of rogue cheddar.
This one measures 22/32" almost ready.

Title: Re: Checked my Cam adjuster
Post by bill67 on 01/27/10 at 09:41:46

42495144581919280 wrote:

I would think about a good synthetic motorcycle oil the next time around. 15000 miles is low mileage for any motorcycle.

Title: Re: Checked my Cam adjuster
Post by Phelonius on 01/27/10 at 09:49:10

I used a small 9" X20" lathe to make a new piston for mine that was 4mm longer than stock. then i milled the slot and fitted a roll pin to prevent it from falling out.
This allows it to protrude 2mm further than stock and still be 2mm more inside the tube to prevent ovaling.
I posted photos about a year ago.
BTW , when I installed a new cam chain, the piston protruded 14mm new.
I conclude that at 18mm it has only moved 4mm from when the engine was new.
I also posted photos of comparing stretch by bending the chain sideways. Since stretch is a factor of wear in the pins and holes in the chain, this is a very accurate method.

Phelonius

Title: Re: Checked my Cam adjuster
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/27/10 at 11:35:46

Well, we got about the same service life outta the cam chain & I use Rotella T 15-40 & run the everlovin piss outta the thing. I have had to sew the rubber onto the peg on the r/ side because it was splitting out near the end, where its ground down from dragging. A couple passes with some wire & its holding nicely. I dont see how the babying & constant oil change got you further down the road.

Title: Re: Checked my Cam adjuster
Post by bill67 on 01/27/10 at 13:19:22

Its the type of oil you use not how often you change it. Thats proof that that Rotella isn't to hot of and oil.He should have stayed with the Yamaha oil.

Title: Re: Checked my Cam adjuster
Post by Oldfeller on 01/27/10 at 13:27:24

Bill is bored and he wants to play oil war again.

Sorry Bill, no oil war today .... everyone is being nice so let's see how long we can keep that pleasantness going.

Title: Re: Checked my Cam adjuster
Post by bill67 on 01/27/10 at 13:35:17

Klotz Hi Performance techiniplate M 4 racing oil,Zero wear oil.

Title: Re: Checked my Cam adjuster
Post by Oldfeller on 01/27/10 at 15:48:14

3 cheers for the winner, Klotz Hi Performance techiniplate M 4 racing oil, the Zero wear oil.

Hip hip, Hooray !! Hip hip, Hooray !! Hip hip, Hooray !!

(short war, wasn't it?)

Title: Re: Checked my Cam adjuster
Post by Jay on 01/27/10 at 15:49:11

I'm still not convinced that it's not an "intended" design flaw. The average mileage for this engine size is about 3.000/year, according to Kelly Blue Book:http://www.kbb.com/company/faq/motorcycles#mv_8
That's about 5 years, pretty much the service life for a "beginner" bike. The folks at Suzuki probably figure that the intended market for this bike (of which we are clearly not) would not own the bike longer than that, and needn't bother with redesign and retooling.

Title: Re: Checked my Cam adjuster
Post by Oldfeller on 01/27/10 at 16:02:19

Earlier Savages cam chains appear to have lasted longer -- part of that puzzle lives with the original cam chain vendor admitting that they no longer exclusively supply the cam chains for these bikes any more. There is some input that Suzuki is having some of their engines built in other countries now, using that country's supply base for the bits and pieces. Cost is king, and Japan is not exempt from that equation.

============

On our end, Lancer is selling an improved nitrided pin chain from the original supplier of the chain that should move things back towards the longer life span. We as a group are smarter now about oil and other wear related items, so it should help somewhat again.

However, we are also modding more drastically for higher RPM performance now, so we should see a current going the other way as well. You spin the engine fast, you should expect accelerated wear on the valve train components.

I think we should be aware we need to pop our covers every 10,000 miles at most and simply take a look inside to see what is going on. That is just simple prudence.

Title: Re: Checked my Cam adjuster
Post by Jay on 01/27/10 at 19:17:34

"I think we should be aware we need to pop our covers every 10,000 miles at most and simply take a look inside to see what is going on. That is just simple prudence. "

Sound advice. At 15,000 + miles, I was just lucky. Admitedly, I was putting it off because I thought it would be complicated. It took all of an hour; and that was going very slowly, with the Clymer's open, and a laptop in the garage logged in to this site. If I'd known what a relatively simple, straight forward procedure this was, I'd have done it a few thousand back! Now putting on the VerSlavy doesn't seem so daunting a task, and will get me a little more life out of the cam chain. Replacing the cam chain, well that's another story. :)

Title: Re: Checked my Cam adjuster
Post by jabman on 01/27/10 at 23:49:48

do you buy the cam chain as an endless chain with a rivet link to break if you want to

Title: Re: Checked my Cam adjuster
Post by Oldfeller on 01/28/10 at 00:14:08

Nope, and when you see the cam chain on our bike you will understand why. Ours you take the gears off and slide the loop out, then replace the new loop the same way.

Some bikes (4 cylinder types) have a cam chain set up in the center of the crank shaft and the cam chain is of a type that can be broken and master link restaked, those you start the new chain to the old chain and rotate everything around holding tension to keep the teeth engaged ..... but ours is not that type.

Title: Re: Checked my Cam adjuster
Post by stinger on 01/28/10 at 00:50:15

Wierd how cam chain life is so variable on the Savage. Some need to change it after 7,000 miles, others many more miles before needed. My 02 is still running like new after 43,000 miles. Savage Greg changed my original cam chain at 33,000 miles and it was still only 19,000 out. I just checked mine again after 43,000 miles and its just fine. I only use Castro 50 weight auto oil and Ive ridden as much as 675 miles in one day from Missoula Montana to Portland at freeway speeds and it was still running cool when I parked it. Most of my 43,000 miles is at high speeds so I dont think high RPM's are the cause of the short cam chain lives. Maybe its cause I never use first gear and am smooth at getting to the higher speeds. I never just crank it wide open to get up there in a super hurry. Anyway, I plan on putting another 15,000 miles on this year on my bike which will make it 58,000 miles on my 2nd cam chain. Ive been lucky on maintenance too! Other than tires and brakes Ive never had to make a repair on my bike. Still no oil leaks at all.

Title: Re: Checked my Cam adjuster
Post by BurnPgh on 01/28/10 at 01:00:14

man...you got lucky. 18mm on the tensioner at 9k mi. Got a verslavy and replaced cam chain and both guides at 20k. Had the head plug leak once, fixed it with the old style plug and leaked again very soon after.

Title: Re: Checked my Cam adjuster
Post by jabman on 01/28/10 at 06:01:51

hmmm this place im looking at buying one from if needed states

'endless chain with rivet link to be used of chain needs to be split' :-/

i haven't even got on to looking for that head plug thing??

Title: Re: Checked my Cam adjuster
Post by verslagen1 on 01/28/10 at 07:23:11

4D46454A4649270 wrote:

'endless chain with rivet link to be used of chain needs to be split'

Our chain can't be split.

Title: Re: Checked my Cam adjuster
Post by jabman on 01/28/10 at 10:48:37

http://i780.photobucket.com/albums/yy87/jabman89/10013084.jpg

does this look right?????????

Title: Re: Checked my Cam adjuster
Post by verslagen1 on 01/28/10 at 11:53:18

as far as I can tell from a fuzzy foto which may not be the actual product, looks right.

Title: Re: Checked my Cam adjuster
Post by jabman on 01/28/10 at 12:02:10

ill get that one if need be if its wrong ill just get a refund its a decent place

Title: Re: Checked my Cam adjuster
Post by Oldfeller on 01/28/10 at 15:20:30

Jabman,

Why would you pay $90 for a cam chain that is known to have issues (the stock Suzuki cam chain) when you can pay $50 to Lancer to get an improved chain spec'd by us here on the list and specially manufactured by the original Savage chain vendor (Borg Warner) with special nitride hardened link pins to help cure our "short cam chain stretch life" issues?

:-/

Why would you pay more, to get less?

Title: Re: Checked my Cam adjuster
Post by jabman on 01/28/10 at 23:16:26

there is another one ????? how would i go about gettin one??? :o

Title: Re: Checked my Cam adjuster
Post by Ebikerman on 01/29/10 at 06:15:09

Oldfeller, How do I contact Lance to get one of these cam chains? I have had the Verslagen1 tensioner installed. I thought I would get one of these chains and put it on the shelf for future use. Please communicate. Thanks, Dan

Title: Re: Checked my Cam adjuster
Post by Oldfeller on 01/29/10 at 06:32:23

Lancer isn't hard to find, just type Savage Performance into Google and look for Little Mountain SC which is his city.

He lives here, on the list but like many old timers he is kinda quiet most of the time .....

You can PM or email him here ... (scroll down)

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?action=viewprofile;username=232E212C2A3D7D784F0