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Message started by KenGLong on 01/26/10 at 18:39:03

Title: Charging issue
Post by KenGLong on 01/26/10 at 18:39:03

I seem to have a charging issue on my 2002. Here's what's happening.

I few weeks ago I tried to start the bike and it was cranking over real slowly. Seemed that the battery was toast. This is the same battery that was with the bike when I got it in 2005 so I figured it had finally died and I replaced it. New battery worked fine but it was too cold to ride so the bike stayed parked for a week and a half with the new and fully charged battery. I went to start it again Saturday and it was doing the same thing. I used a car battery to jump the bike and it cranked fast and started easily. Once it was started, I checked the voltage on the battery and it was 14.0V at idle but dropped to about 12.5 at higher rpm. This wasn't good so I tested the stator output and it was 30VAC at idle and went up to 125VAC at high rpm across all three combinations. This was as it's supposed to be so I trid to check the voltage regulator but I only have a digital meter and couldn't get proper resistance readings as per the SSM. So, I cleaned all the connections and put it all back together. The voltage on the battery was still 14.0V at idle but now it was only dropping about a tenth of a volt at higher rpms. I figured it was a bad connection and left thebattery on a charger for 30 minutes then buttoned it all back up.

This afternoon I was going to take it out to see how it was running and the same slow crank issue was back. Again I jumped it with a car battery and it started right up. I rode it around town for about 30 miles and all was fine. When I returned, the battery voltage was about 14V at idle and was dropping to about 13.4 at high rpm.

So, I'm thinking I either have a bad voltage regulator (since I was unable to verify good or bad) or my brand new battery is defective. But what I'm really curious about is that charging voltage that drops when I rev the engine. I don't think it's supposed to do that. ABout the only thing I am sure of is that the stator output is good and it's not shorted.

Any thoughts?

Thanks,
Ken in Albuquerque

Title: Re: Charging issue
Post by verslagen1 on 01/26/10 at 21:00:14

My guess would be a bad regulator.
I don't think anyone knows the exact function of it.
The SSM shows 6 diodes to rectify the 3 phase AC current.
3 thyrister and an IC controller. Once rpms get high enough, the IC turns on the thyristers to redirect the current back to the generator to prevent overcharging :-? must be a phase thing.
Anywho, it ain't working right. Look for a new one. come up on fleabay all the time. be patient get it cheap.

Title: Re: Charging issue
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/26/10 at 22:47:39

New battery worked fine but it was too cold to ride so the bike stayed parked for a week and a half with the new and fully charged battery. I went to start it again Saturday and it was doing the same thing.

So, you got a new battery. You charged it up? Why was it dead after sitting 10 days? I dont see how the charge system failed you, from what I get out of your post.

Title: Re: Charging issue
Post by Charon on 01/27/10 at 06:05:23

Judging from the wiring diagram in the Clymer manual, the regulator is connected across the battery at all times, without regard to the position of the ignition switch. Depending on the sort of failure, the regulator could discharge the battery. If your meter has a current function, you could try disconnecting the battery and putting the meter in series with the battery and the disconnected lead (won't matter which one). You should have essentially no current flow. Don't turn on the ignition or you will probably blow the fuse in your meter. If you have current flow in excess of a few milliamps, start disconnecting things until you find the problem.

Title: Re: Charging issue
Post by KenGLong on 01/27/10 at 11:17:58

Interesting thought about the dead battery after sitting for a week or so. That shouldn't have happened.

I did check to see if there was any current from the battery with the ignition switch off. There wasn't any, less than a milliamp, anyway.

I picked up an analog multimeter and checked the voltage regulator. I got infinity where the SSM said I should, 1.8KOhms where the SSM says 3.0 and 2.5 where the SSM says 7.5. Now those readings are in the ballpark but they still could indicate a shorted diode or other fault in there.

The bike starts fine with a car battery hooked up but the voltage on the battery still drops at higher revs. It's not supposed to do that, is it?

I'm leaning toward bad rectifer/regulator but, man, that's a pricey part and times are tough. I'd sure hate to buy a new one only to find it wasn't the problem.

Title: Re: Charging issue
Post by KenGLong on 01/27/10 at 16:37:40

414F444D4645444D2A0 wrote:

The bike starts fine with a car battery hooked up but the voltage on the battery still drops at higher revs. It's not supposed to do that, is it?

(Forgive me for replying to my own post but posting here is kind of like talking out loud. It helps me to organize my thoughts.)

I just checked the battery voltage on another bike that is running fine (a Kaw Vulcan 900). It drops in the same way as the Savage. It's about 14.5 at idle then drops to about 14.0 at higher rpm. So I guess the drop is not abnormal. Now I'm not too sure if the rectifier/regulator is really bad.

I just finished charging the new battery and will check it in the morning to see if it's self-discharging. A couple minutes after removing the charger, the battery voltage was 12.1. If it goes down by an appreciable amount, I might have a bad brand new battery.

Title: Re: Charging issue
Post by bill67 on 01/27/10 at 16:54:49

You can even play around with your old battery and see if it gos down the same when you charge it.

Title: Re: Charging issue
Post by Digger on 01/27/10 at 21:05:38

The book (the FSM) is pretty clear on this.

Run the engine at 5000 rpm with the headlight dimmer switch set to HI.

You should be reading between 14.0 and 15.5 v across the battery terminals.

If not within this range, the alternator or the regulator is implicated.

IHTH!

Title: Re: Charging issue
Post by ls650v on 01/28/10 at 03:11:14

If your battery voltage is 12.1 volts a couple minutes after disconnecting the charger then either your battery is shot or your voltmeter is inaccurate.

Title: Re: Charging issue
Post by KenGLong on 01/28/10 at 07:34:55

My brand new battery is defective. It was at 10V this morning after sitting overnight with nothing on the terminals.

I bought is mail order to save some bucks and I can't ship it back now that I've added the acid.

Bummer.

Title: Re: Charging issue
Post by bill67 on 01/28/10 at 08:16:18

I would charge it up and then put it on like 10 amp charge for 10 minutes and let it boil I think that cleans the plates.

Title: Re: Charging issue
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/28/10 at 09:39:25

757B7079727170791E0 wrote:

This is why I pointed out the low battery problem, after sitting for 10 days.

Title: Re: Charging issue
Post by KenGLong on 01/28/10 at 15:35:44

Get this, I go up to Battery Plus this morning to get a new battery. They have an AGM for $74. I get it home, put it in the bike, turn the key to ON, the headlight comes on, hit the starter button and "CLICK" goes the de-comp solenoid then nothing. The brand new AGM is defective!

Jeez!

Title: Re: Charging issue
Post by Charon on 01/28/10 at 17:05:20

I suppose it is silly to ask whether you charged the new AGM battery before you installed it. Just because it is new doesn't mean it was charged.

Title: Re: Charging issue
Post by KenGLong on 01/28/10 at 18:03:48

6B40495A4746280 wrote:

I suppose it is silly to ask whether you charged the new AGM battery before you installed it. Just because it is new doesn't mean it was charged.

After it died, I put my voltmeter on it. It was 12.4v with the key OFF but it dropped to less than 2V with the key ON and none of the lights would come on, including the neutral lamp. I disconnected the new battery and jumped in one from a different bike and all worked fine. It's defective.

Title: Re: Charging issue
Post by Charon on 01/30/10 at 09:49:56

I am curious to know what the folks at Battery Plus had to say about your defective AGM battery. Did they replace it for you?

Title: Re: Charging issue
Post by KenGLong on 01/30/10 at 20:53:16

BatteriesPlus gave me the option of a replacement or a refund. A replacement would have taken two weeks so I opted for the refund. I took the cash, went to the local dealer and purchased a brand new OEM Yuasa. They filled and charged it and I picked it up the next day.

I'm still running tests on the new battery. I want to be sure it's reliable before I call it fixed but it's fine so far.

Title: Re: Charging issue
Post by nicka on 01/31/10 at 08:54:18

I believe the problem lies with Battery Plus. I have been told they do not store/charge batteries properly, buy from Interstate or someone who really knows what they are doing.