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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> HOW GOOD IS THE SAVAGE /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1263744784 Message started by alcoa on 01/17/10 at 08:13:04 |
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Title: HOW GOOD IS THE SAVAGE Post by alcoa on 01/17/10 at 08:13:04 I have a 07 with 8345 miles on it. I have drilled out the brass plug and made that adj. and thats it. I change the oil and filter every 3000 miles. MY bike has never given me any problems. Now my ? is this, how many of the problems that show up on this site are caused by suzuki or by those modify the bike. Not looking if they are right or wrong, just want to know how good our savage really is. I am 58 this is my first bike I bought it in 08 with 79 miles on it, if I take good care of it how long will it keep going? |
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Title: Re: HOW GOOD IS THE SAVAGE Post by Boule’tard on 01/17/10 at 08:57:40 15~20K miles is the life of the stock cam chain tensioner. If I was not going to do any mods and wanted to minimize cam chain problems, I'd change the oil every 1,000 miles with full synthetic and jack up the idle speed a little. |
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Title: Re: HOW GOOD IS THE SAVAGE Post by Serowbot on 01/17/10 at 09:03:26 It's pretty good... I'd say,... "I------------------I".... this good... If you keep it long enough,... you will have a petcock leak, maybe a head plug leak, and eventually the cam chain will go... at some time between 10k and 50k.... All bikes have a weakest link,...and well maintained ones will usually end up predictably finding it... Depending on miles ridden per year, it will either be the petcock or the cam chain... Replace the petcock with a Raptor,... put on one of Lancer's strengthened cam chains, when it wears out, and ride on for at least that amount again... 60 to 100k is possible.... by then the whole bike will start decomposing.... as will any bike... Bmw's and Harley's, and some other bikes have a history of going for many 100k's, but they have mostly had so many parts replaced and rebuilt that very little of the original machine is still left.... Anything will run forever, if you replace every part that breaks or wears out... |
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Title: Re: HOW GOOD IS THE SAVAGE Post by verslagen1 on 01/17/10 at 09:22:14 Yes most problems are caused by a loose nut connecting the handlebars and the seat. When you say all the problems you really are talking to broad a field for anyone to answer. There are problems caused by age of the bike and age of the rider. There are problems caused by use and environment. There are problems caused by lack of maitenance or unskilled maintainers. I for one ride to the upper limit of the bike durring the summer. 70 mph for a half hour with 100° heat just boils off the oil. But durring the winter oil usage is normal. The weather is great so I ride all year. But my carb still gets sticky from time to time and needs cleaning or cleaning fluids added to the tank. Yes, things break. I've broken a clutch cam, most likely a maintenance issue. Some have dropped a valve. I've seen a burnt piston. Petcock is a problem. Switches fail. Some of it is environment, some maitenance, some use. |
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Title: Re: HOW GOOD IS THE SAVAGE Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/17/10 at 09:55:05 It aint gonna stay new. Run it. Have fun with it. When it needs stuff done, do it & have fun doin that. Dont be stressin every time you crack the throttle "Gee, is this too much? Will I need a cam chain later if I do this?" Ride that sumbitch & grin. |
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Title: Re: HOW GOOD IS THE SAVAGE Post by JohnBoy on 01/17/10 at 11:07:14 These are remarkable little bikes. Back in the 1960's an air cooled bike was reaching the end of its service life at 25k, water cooled engines by 60k. Motorcycles have come a long way in 50 years. Honda Goldwings with 100k are common. If you keep the fluid levels up, and do the necessary maintenance, you will have moved on to other bikes long before you wear it out. And, if you choose to modify your Savage, you can do so "on the cheap". The guys here will show you how. Where else can you have this much fun for this little money??? |
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Title: Re: HOW GOOD IS THE SAVAGE Post by Paladin. on 01/17/10 at 11:56:37 I am not a very nice guy when it comes to my equipment. I got my '00 in '04 with 5,000 miles on it. Nothing but oil, tire, and brake pad changes until 28,000 miles when I figured I should do the cam chain thing. Oh, yeah, also fixed the leaky plug thing, after putting up with it for nearly two years. It is a tough little bike. I ride daily. I rode it to OKC in '07. I'm planning on Seatle this year, and Biloxi in '11. When it finally dies it's getting replaced with an S40. |
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Title: Re: HOW GOOD IS THE SAVAGE Post by drums1 on 01/17/10 at 12:14:23 I got my '87 with about 9,000 on it. Once I got it running again--new battery, clean carb, new starter--it's been rather problem free. I did have to replace the clutch, which led to a nightmare, summer before last, but that was the idiot dealers fault. Because of his faulty workmanship, I ended up having to replace the top 1/2 of the motor. I did have them replace the cam chain tensioner thing with the updated one. I hope it lasts for a few thousand miles before servicing again. And I change the oil and filter about every 1000 miles, just to be safe. It's not very expensive, and real easy to do. Right now, with 12,000 on it, I do need new tires, and front brakes. Otherwise, I ride on. As you should do. |
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Title: Re: HOW GOOD IS THE SAVAGE Post by Oldnewguy on 01/17/10 at 12:57:49 I bought my first bike at 68 last year. I hope to be able to get a few years of riding out of it. I think that I will probably wear out before the Savage. The Savage is very easy to work on and maintain. With the help of the peeps on this forum, just about anything is possible. After reading threads about the cam chain tensioner thing, I asked the local dealer about it. He told me that the dealership had never had that problem. He said that to mess that up you had to have the "petal to the metal" most of the time. Not the ordinary riders treatment. He also said that the regular maintenance was important. I assume he meant oil and filter and valve adjustment. I am doing a muffler, air filter and carb thing this winter. I would have never tried it without the help on this forum. Enjoy your bike and don't worry about it. If you have a question or a problem, this is the place! :) :) |
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Title: Re: HOW GOOD IS THE SAVAGE Post by rigidchop on 01/17/10 at 13:12:54 i bought mine with around 14,000 miles on it. fixed the plug leak, cam chain, replaced the petcock. i beat the crap outta this bike, and it keeps going. most of my rides are around 50 miles or so, and a few over 200. so far it has never let me down. i would probably buy another, if this one ever suffered a catastophic failure. |
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Title: Re: HOW GOOD IS THE SAVAGE Post by Oldfeller on 01/17/10 at 15:58:07 Yes, to your point earlier you CAN mod the bike to pieces. Lancer, Verslagen and I are having a race to see who can blow our bike up first. So far Lancer is ahead in that contest, Verslagen is in second place and I am a late entry who is pulling up third place in the "skilled mechanic, but busy wicking it to pieces" contest. Mescapatori holds first place for the "most damage done by skilled mechanics with the bike still left in running shape" category. Serenity holds the highest mileage rebuild gone wrong (56,000 miles on the original cam chain, but dead within two days after rebuilding. Somebody has the highest mileage bike, highest ever on the list was one of the original purchasers of an '87 that put over 120,000 on his scoot before lunching it out with some sort of piston wear out death. Let's see, we have the mods gone wrong category with a oversized piston weight adder getting loose causing the harmonic balancer front part of the crankcase to bust off and hit the road in front of the rear tire at full highway speed. We got dozens of engines killed for no oil (simply let it run out, never checked it) and we got low idle rpm killing cam journals (a few) and we got cam chain adjusters spitting their guts into the primary gearing and all the other forms of just plain didn't take care of it death forms. BUT THE NUMBER ONE KILLER OF THE SAVAGE IS THE HORRIBLE DREADED "I just stopped riding it for a few months and then the battery went dead and I put it in the shed and forgot about it for a year or so and the carb got all screwed up and I couldn't ever fix it and after a few more years in the shed it seized up tight" category -- i.e. death by neglect syndrome. More bikes of all brands die from this reason than from any other reason. ======================== The Savage is remarkably easy to take care of and easy to ride bike. It is in current production after nearly 24 years of constant production and some of the earliest ones made are still running. |
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Title: Re: HOW GOOD IS THE SAVAGE Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/17/10 at 16:16:33 Paying the shop for an oil change & them putting the oil filter in bakkerds has killed 2? |
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Title: Re: HOW GOOD IS THE SAVAGE Post by Oldfeller on 01/17/10 at 19:36:00 The ones that just busted the cover housing from the oil pressure build up, that doesn't count as destroyed. It happened quick and when the new cover was correctly assembled with the oil filter, etc put in correctly the bikes went on with life. ("skilled mechanic" Joe strikes again ...) The ones that ran that way a while and the covers held up against the oil pressure and the engines died head deaths from no oil flow, yes they count against the "skilled mechanic" death count. OldNewGuy, your dealership has never seen a Savage wear a cam chain to the point the tensioner let loose because the dealership never sees a bike that goes much beyond the warranty period. Verslagen keeps a spreadsheet on the list somewhere where he tracks all our cam chain mileages -- we were tracking data for a class action suit if we can prove the bike has a built in flaw that Suzuki should repair at N/C under legal action. I think we have proven there is an issue, but we will never get it fixed for free because we never leave our bikes alone for 15,000 miles .... we mod them before then and that destroys our case. |
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Title: Re: HOW GOOD IS THE SAVAGE Post by Digger on 01/17/10 at 21:18:59 272425222320212E2F160 wrote:
There are slow deaths and there are catastrophic ones. Slow deaths can be delayed greatly by simply maintaining your bike by the book and listening to it. As far as catastrophic deaths, if your bike is properly maintained according to the book, the biggest thing that can grenade your engine is a loose cam chain tensioner. You're getting close to the mileage where you may want to give your cam chain a look and pop in a Verslavy. Then, keep up with the scheduled maintenance, listen to the bike, and relax. JMHO. |
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Title: Re: HOW GOOD IS THE SAVAGE Post by Oldnewguy on 01/18/10 at 08:11:39 Oldfeller, I am, as usual, awestruck and amazed by your knowledge. Your ability to sit in SC and know about the local dealership that has been run by the same man for over 50 years is mind boggling. I take my hat off to you and look forward to future pearls of wisdom from you. Regards, Oldnewguy P.S. The dealership has sold many used Savage and Boulvards that were well out of warrenty, including mine! ::) |
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Title: Re: HOW GOOD IS THE SAVAGE Post by Oldfeller on 01/18/10 at 08:51:11 Well, I sit in NC (Lancer is the one that sits in SC) and the only pearl of wisdom I have is for you to look up and read Verslagen's spreadsheet on cam chain wear out mileage. Part of his data is the person's riding style and type and weight of oil that was used. Informative and thought provoking information as you consider on the general topic. I still have to wonder at your dealership's engagement with the higher mileage bikes, for them to make that statement that they have NEVER seen a cam chain tensioner or a cam chain need attention. That still seems a little "off reality" to me. Sorry, but it is. As far as pearls of wisdom go, the best I can do is admit when I don't know or make a point to admit when I was wrong on a point. I was wrong to respond to your post with everyone's historical failure rates and failure causes. My personal experience is that I have ridden the snot out of my bike for just under 14,000 miles and have done most of the common performance mods over that time period. I have had to put a Verslaggy cam tensioner extender on my bike at 13,368 miles as I was at 18mm extension and was not that many miles away from a spring puke into the primary gearing event (more support for us saying check your cam tensioner at 10,000 - 15,000 miles, but you look at the spreadsheet and project your own oil type and riding style). ============= Now, this is addressed to the guy who does sit in SC as I know he will appreciate what he so ably practices in these cases ... Matthew 7:6 |
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Title: Re: HOW GOOD IS THE SAVAGE Post by verslagen1 on 01/18/10 at 09:11:35 I'm always amazed at the sniping over every little generallization. Of course we don't know every dealer, but from our own personal experience and the reports of others, beware. And it is possible that particular dealer not to see the problem. 1. all his bikes don't get riden long enough to find it. 2. they do get riden, explode and left on side of road to rot. 3. they get traded into the HD dealership and they screw'em up. 4. they are taken care of by the owner after the warranty expires. |
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Title: Re: HOW GOOD IS THE SAVAGE Post by Oldnewguy on 01/18/10 at 09:14:24 My only point was that it got personal and this is not the first time. :( |
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Title: Re: HOW GOOD IS THE SAVAGE Post by bill67 on 01/18/10 at 09:57:32 I asked my Suzuki dealer,Who I've been buying motorcycles from for 40 years,about verslagen spreadsheet,He didn't know anything about it. |
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Title: Re: HOW GOOD IS THE SAVAGE Post by verslagen1 on 01/18/10 at 11:17:05 242F2A2A7071460 wrote:
Hmmm, he doesn't know sheet... does he know shinenola? |
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Title: Re: HOW GOOD IS THE SAVAGE Post by kk lewi on 01/18/10 at 18:41:34 7B687F7E616C6A68633C0D0 wrote:
Hmmm, he doesn't know sheet... does he know shinenola?[/quote] AHAHA!! ok that got a real life LOL! Needed that. ;D |
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Title: Re: HOW GOOD IS THE SAVAGE Post by Polar Pilot on 01/19/10 at 06:14:34 The question at hand is difocult to answer accurately or throughly I have a 1989 Savage that I bought in 1999 with 12,000 kms on the clock. I had ridden it solo and two up for 5 years and rolled to about 25,000 kms. I have always been very cautious about the oil levels but I got tagged. I changed the oil and rode it to a rally - about 400 kms, Then my daughter and I decided to go on a longer trip and off we headed - she was pushing me and I did not stop to lay down and check the site glass window for the oil level. Off we went but at about 100 kms from home I heard the engine noise change. When I stopped for gas at 150 kms I did check the oil and could see nothing at all in the site glass no matter how far to the right I leaned the bike. I found some engine oil and filled it up - but the rattle from the cam chest did not stop and I suspected the damage was done Sure enough - even with oil 50 kms later running at 100 kmph suddenly there was a bang, the clutch broken loose and the bike came to an ignominious halt. I had seized a valve - which hit the piston - and broke the cam chain. My shop mechanic said he had never seen an engine so badly damaged. Because I I continue to believe in the Savage and love driving it - time for a rebuild - the shop called me when the quote price hit $3400 and suggested that I really did not want to go on with the rebuild on a now 14 year old bike. What to do? Well the puzzle did not take long to solve - I bought a 1995 engine from ebay for about $1,000 delivered to Canada and swapped it out. the only issue was some fiddling with the electronic ignition - we had to take some coils from the 1989 engine and put them into the 95 engine. Other than that it was a bolt up procedure. Today I am still riding the 1989 which now has about 27,000 kms on the clock. (There are a few other bikes in the shed so it does not get as much riding as it might) I have switched to using Aeroshell 15059 engine oil and I am more careful about checking oil levels. If I loose this engine - and I do not think I will - well you have just read the drill and I would do it the same way once again |
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Title: Re: HOW GOOD IS THE SAVAGE Post by Yonuh Adisi on 01/19/10 at 13:45:46 I bought my 2000 in 2006 from a pawn shop that had it since 2004 (according to the tag on the license plate) I trucked it home, flushed the fuel tank, cleaned the carb, and replaced the battery. She fired right up. She had if I remember correctly just over 8000miles on the clock, she now has over 18000. When my cam chain tensioner gave up the ghost a couple of years ago, I went ahead and did a top end rebuild. (new rings, cylinder honed, and new gaskets). I have also put it Lancers Stage 1 cam (though at the time it was the only performance cam he had. The stage 2 wasn't out yet.) Re-jetted the carb, K&N slip in air filter, and Jardine pipe. She still runs strong and will lift my girder front end about an inch by rolling hard on the throttle in second gear at a fifteen mile an hour role. I can't wait to get enough money to get the Stage 2 cam. |
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Title: Re: HOW GOOD IS THE SAVAGE Post by Oldfeller on 01/19/10 at 14:03:05 If you are looking for a bunch of extra "snatch it in the air" torque, I think you have all the torque you are going to get at low RPMs right now. Stage 2 is all about unlocking the other half of the RPM band -- turning the big top end flat spot into the rest of the power band that a normal bike has. It will run kinda like a Honda, the more the merrier the higher you go. There is more there, but you gotta go high to get it. Bike does not really "lose" anything much down low, but you begin to spin the gears out with third gear being good for 65 mph and 4th becoming all you ever go to for top end and 5th becomes the overdrive you kick it into when you decide to drop back down to the speed limit and cruise for a bit .... .... heck, ya gotta let the cops go on by that old geezer who is jest slowly putting along on his single cylinder "Pop-sicle" when they is trying to catch up with that crotch rocket that jest went wailing on by them a second ago -- made the choke on their donuts and spill their coffee, he did. Durn crazy kid -- he's gonna kill hisself iffen they don't stop him !! |
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Title: Re: HOW GOOD IS THE SAVAGE Post by Yonuh Adisi on 01/19/10 at 14:08:15 45666E6C6F66666F780A0 wrote:
Yep, that's what I am looking for. To get as much as I can throughout the entire power ban. I don't really care about standing it up, but would definitely like a little more on the top end. |
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Title: Re: HOW GOOD IS THE SAVAGE Post by LANCER on 01/19/10 at 17:49:55 1A2C2D362B02272A302A430 wrote:
Yep, that's what I am looking for. To get as much as I can throughout the entire power ban. I don't really care about standing it up, but would definitely like a little more on the top end. [/quote] Have you ported the exhaust side of the head yet ? If-n you are going to go for the higher lift/duration of Stage II, then you should consider doing so. Don't forget a 1.5" -1.6" ID header to get the gas out a bit faster too. Yee-haw ! ! Fun stuffffffffffffffffffff |
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