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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Best deal ever on an air compressor !!! /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1263595771 Message started by Oldfeller on 01/15/10 at 14:49:31 |
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Title: Best deal ever on an air compressor !!! Post by Oldfeller on 01/15/10 at 14:49:31 Please excuse me for being a bit enthusiastic -- I have found something that tickles my fancy and I wanted to share it with you guys .... I have a lot of air driven tools and I own a 2 hp 20 gallon tank compressor that is 25 years old. It is old style 1750 rpm electric motor, 2 belt sheave, dual stage (2 dissimilar cylinder sizes) that could chug out 4-5 cfm at 90-100 psi. It had enough ass to run a paint gun on-going and it did everything else competently in its rattly noisy fashion. My compressor was powerful, but it drank electricity and it was very slow to fill up the 20 gallon tank up to full 100 psi pressure. It is also noisy as the dickens and it runs all the time, seems like. 25 years ago it was a state of the art $300 compressor. It was a very expensive stationary shop tool, in other words. ======================= Fast forward 25 years to the year 2010 ======================= http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/photos/95400-95499/95498.gif http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=95498 This one hand carryable portable air compressor is on sale this week (coupon was in this past Sunday's paper) for jest $74.99 which is about half price to what it normally goes for. Similar units American built cost over $250 and this Chinese built unit looks pretty much like a rip off of a commercial Devilbiss/Campell Hausfield design. It has a 2 hp 3,400 rpm induction style ball bearing motor that has a built in direct drive to the single small cast iron cylinder. Balance of the motor and compressor are impeccable, when actuated the motor/compressor hummms along at 3,400 rpm and the pressure needle shoots up VERY FAST, much faster than my old compressor. Because it has double the motor speed the single small displacement cylinder cranks out 4.4 CFM (90 psi) at the same horsepower rating as my old compressor. It gives VERY SIMILAR results out of much less pounds of machinery (100 or more fewer pounds of machinery). It recovers normal pressure losses ongoing, going hummm .... (pause) .... hummm .... bouncing between 85 and 115 psi tank pressure for my very largest air consuming tools. Using it to power an air blow off hasn't been an issue yet since I don't blow air for very long at a time and I never use compressed air to "sweep my shop" as I used to do with the old compressor back when electricity was cheap. I do not think I would try to paint a car with it -- painting requires ongoing 40 psi air at a very even delivery rate. I think I would uncork the big tanked old compressor for any major paint work. ============ This thing really shines for convenience, portability, low purchase price and its low noise/high performance levels. It takes just a skinny minute to pump up the 4 gallon tank to the full run your impact wrench level -- and it takes just seconds to pull it out, plug it in and go to work. And that means where ever I need to work, not just in the shop. Note: you need to buy a large capacity 12 gage extension cord if you use one. Pulling 15-16 amps through a normal lawn & garden extension cord is a recipe for overheating and excessive voltage drop unless you have enough wire size in your extension cord. This is true for most major electric hand tools, so I already have "big enough" extension cords that were built using exterior grade romex cable. |
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Title: Re: Best deal ever on an air compressor !!! Post by bill67 on 01/15/10 at 15:05:52 4 gallons isn't much air,For about $20 more you can get a 6 gallon pancake one thats make for construction that holds up a lot better than that one. |
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Title: Re: Best deal ever on an air compressor !!! Post by Oldfeller on 01/15/10 at 15:46:55 Which one are you speaking about? Most of the six gallon pancake type tank units I see available are lower cfm units based on an oil-less diaphragm compressor. Not bad units I guess, they get there a little bit slower than the direct displacement reciprocating piston machines which is why they needed the half again larger tank just to support an air nailer. They buzzz loudly instead of hummm gently. I suspect they buzz a a good bit of the time, too. They are lighter though, about 15-20 pounds lighter. If I was crawling up on to a roof every day that would make a big difference to be sure, but I'm not a roofer. Plus, Bill, they lack a key VERY important feature that you can certainly appreciate once you think about it a bit. |
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Title: Re: Best deal ever on an air compressor !!! Post by Boule’tard on 01/15/10 at 17:25:50 0320282A292020293E4C0 wrote:
What very important feature? Uhh uh.. UUHHhh!! http://i48.tinypic.com/66dgxw.gif what IS it that my little porter-pancake lacks, and this Chinese thingy has? I thought about it a bit, but I'm kinda slow. Central Pneumatic is batting about 500 at the moment.. I have one roof nailer that's a total POS (misfires one out of 4 nails) one good impact wrench, and one 0.5 assed impact wrench. I did not quit buying CentralPneumatic/HarborFreight stuff altogether because the prices are too sweet to pass up and returns are friendly. Please keep us posted on how this compressor does in the long term. |
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Title: Re: Best deal ever on an air compressor !!! Post by Oldfeller on 01/15/10 at 18:48:19 Porter pancakes don't have it at all, although they buzzzzzzzzz over the topic endlessly amongst themselves. My air tools all crave it, they need it as much as you need vitamins and suchlike stuff in your food and water. Your Porter pancake will need a special attachment added to provide it or your air tools will eventually all die. Quietly humming high speed 3,400 rpm Chinese piston compressors provide it naturally, provided that you feed them correctly with the proper diet in the first place. |
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Title: Re: Best deal ever on an air compressor !!! Post by Boule’tard on 01/15/10 at 19:36:54 Heh heh. I got it, thanks for the clues. ;) |
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Title: Re: Best deal ever on an air compressor !!! Post by bill67 on 01/15/10 at 19:58:47 In my life time I've probably had 20 different air compressors I was a home builder,All kinds of Nail guns and tools.And you don't take the air compressor up on the roof you have a hose. I had one like that small one when I retired it lasted 5 years,just airing up tires.Paid $130 from Sears for it. |
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Title: Re: Best deal ever on an air compressor !!! Post by Oldfeller on 01/15/10 at 20:19:26 It ain't a small one Bill, it weighs 50 pounds. A third more than them stutterbugs with the six gallon tanks do. ============================================ ============================================ Now, what is the correct critical vitamin to provide for the application? (since you can provide vitamins along with the compressed air) ============ It has to be able to withstand the high heat of compressing air .... It has to have anti-foaming properties .... It has to be able to flow freely at 20 degrees or less .... On the flip side, in continuous use it has to withstand 250+ degrees F for long periods of time .... Must be able to withstand moisture vapor (water comes with the turf) and not make any sludge or gum because of it .... Has to be compatible with air tool vanes and rotors and seals .... Must be recommended by OEMs for "extreme continuous use" in severe 20:1 air compression applications .... Must have a history of success when used by American industry for a number of decades .... Has to be able to withstand air carried dust and such that makes it through a single pass inlet air filter into the air compression process .... Have a very long service life (have history of preventing wear) .... Be readily available where I can buy it .... Not cost me an arm and a leg .... .... and finally it has to be a hell'uv a lot better stuff than the crap Harbor Freight sells for the purpose. |
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Title: Re: Best deal ever on an air compressor !!! Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/15/10 at 22:23:55 & all I could come up with was possibly CFM |
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Title: Re: Best deal ever on an air compressor !!! Post by Oldfeller on 01/16/10 at 01:37:55 Measured not in Cubic Feet per Minute, but instead in Ounces .... "Must Be Purchased Separately", but must be used to remove the plastic warning tape from plug prong and start button .... "Warranty is instantly voided if dropped" or if this is mystery vitamin is not promptly and properly applied .... Air tools crave it and will eventually die if they don't get it .... Boule's Porta pancake doesn't have it but buzzes instead of hums because of it .... ============ Justin's comes in white, mine comes in blue .... Bill's is red & comes in the mail (but he doesn't need it) .... |
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Title: Re: Best deal ever on an air compressor !!! Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/16/10 at 01:49:06 oil |
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Title: Re: Best deal ever on an air compressor !!! Post by bill67 on 01/16/10 at 02:26:43 I have both of those air compressors.Pancake goes to 150 pounds. |
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Title: Re: Best deal ever on an air compressor !!! Post by Oldfeller on 01/16/10 at 03:49:04 Buzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz ..... zzzzzz .... zzzzzzzz (gasp! 150 psi in a six gallon tank) Werp !! Buzzzzzzzzzzzz Werp !! Buzzzzzzzzzzzzz Werp !! Buzzzzzzzzzzzzz Werp !! Buzzzzzzzzzzzzz Werp !! Buzzzzzzzzzzzzz goes the impact wrench Buzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz ..... zzzzzz .... zzzzzzzz (gasp! back up to 150 psi) Versus hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm .... (115 psi in a 4 gallon tank) Werp !! hmmmmmm Werp !! hmmmmmm Werp !! hmmmmmm Werp !! hmmmmmm Werp !! goes the impact wrench hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm (back up to 115 psi) Both get the job done, but mine gets to use Rotella Syn 5w40 in its little crankcase so it will last forever and work flawlessly (quick too). Yours will keep wearing out every five years because you can't put any Klotz into it .... then you get to pay out another $130 to Sears. (P.S. that's an additional $55 over and above the $74.99 Harbor Freight sale price, not $20) hmmm vs Buzzz ? :D |
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Title: Re: Best deal ever on an air compressor !!! Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/16/10 at 04:34:54 By golly, I never tried to type the sound the impact makes, but Werp is a pretty good approach to it. I have a 20 gallon (& IIRC) about $150 or $170.00 from H/ Freight. It dont buzz OR Humm, it makes Racket! I can be in the house & hear it come on out in the shop, 60' from the back door. Even with the shop closed up. I know, because its kicked in in the middle of the night & woke me up,,, I finally stopped forgetting to push that red button down. |
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Title: Re: Best deal ever on an air compressor !!! Post by Oldfeller on 01/16/10 at 04:51:12 That's why I jest love that fast acting hmmmm sound. I have a Black & Decker AirStation (120 volt inflator) and the Harbor Freight unit shown isn't any noiser than that little thing. Old style compressors are noisy as hell, the bigger they are the louder they are. In industry you have to put them in soundproofing enclosures now-a-days as they all easily exceeded 85 db. This $74.99 unit isn't as noisy as a vacuum cleaner. And it vibrates on its little rubber feet not even a tiny bit either. |
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Title: Re: Best deal ever on an air compressor !!! Post by bill67 on 01/16/10 at 05:25:17 The one from Sears is like the one you are talking about it lasted about 4 years the only thing I used it for was airing up tires. Those pancake ones are used all day long in construction and have lasted longer. |
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Title: Re: Best deal ever on an air compressor !!! Post by Boule’tard on 01/16/10 at 11:05:37 The porter-cable I have cranks out 5.3 cfm at 90psi and cranks up to 135psi if needed... plenty for portable use. I use Plan B to compensate for the lack of oil blow-by, which is to put a few drops of air tool oil into the tool before use. For plasma cutting or sandblasting in the shop, the porter-cable works. But as Oldfeller implies, it is loud and obnoxious. If there is a "duty cyle" I'm sure I exceeded it and overheated the compressor. Fortunately I scored an old 2-stage, belt drive, v-twin :D compressor with a 30-gallon tank.. its performance is great, and I love the chug-a-chug-a sound of a good belt drive unit. |
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Title: Re: Best deal ever on an air compressor !!! Post by Serowbot on 01/16/10 at 12:20:32 mines a 30 year old Monkey Wards belt drive... It goes.... Pucka, Pucka, Pucka, Pucka, Pucka, Pucka, .... :) |
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Title: Re: Best deal ever on an air compressor !!! Post by Oldfeller on 01/16/10 at 12:50:37 My Campbell Hausfield was kinda like a hyped up monkey on speed going at a plugged up toilet with a plunger type helper at 100 miles a minute .... pucka pucka pucka (eeek eeek eeek) pucka pucka pucka pucka (eeek) <rattle> <groan> pucka pucka pucka pucka (eeek) pucka pucka pucka pucka (eeek) (eeek) <groan> <rattle> (you see my belts are sorta worn and they slip sometimes and my belt guard is loose and my motor is tired) |
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Title: Re: Best deal ever on an air compressor !!! Post by Serowbot on 01/16/10 at 22:45:56 183B3331323B3B3225570 wrote:
ain't none of us, what we used to be.... :-? |
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Title: Re: Best deal ever on an air compressor !!! Post by Oldfeller on 01/17/10 at 03:38:03 Yep, that's why we have to go try out a new pump occasionally, jest keep trying to get our old lagging pressure back up .... ::) |
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Title: Re: Best deal ever on an air compressor !!! Post by Oldfeller on 01/18/10 at 09:27:37 Hard data time .... (remember, this thing is the size of a 5 gallon gas can) ============== this is what the data covers ============== http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/photos/95400-95499/95498.gif http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=95498 =========================================== Time to pump up to full pressure (115 psi) from Zero (0) pressure == 60 seconds Time to pump up from low pressure cut in to high pressure cut out == 16 seconds Time for an old style (unrestricted) air blow gun to trigger the low pressure cut in == 4 seconds Time for unending air blow gun use to drain the tank == it never happens, after cut in the pressure dropping slows considerably as the input from the 2 hp unit is an appreciable fraction of the outflow of the air gun. As tank pressure slowly drops the drain volume through the air blow gun decreases until equilibrium between 2 hp unit and blow gun drain rate is reached. So, the air blow gun volume/pressure slowly drops to around half speed/volume then it just goes on endlessly blowing at the same rate the 2 hp unit provides. A modern restricted pressure/flow blow gun would hit this equilibrium point much quicker (and at a higher pressure) than my antique "full tilt" blow gun would do. How hot does it get? Motor stays pretty cool, crankcase gets warm, iron barrel gets hot, but the aluminum head gets Savage head fins scalding HOT. That protective shroud is there for a reason !! I'd go along with the current internet "Bobistheoilguy" info on high rpm air compressor lubes and go with a synthetic compressor oil for this small tightly packed powerhouse unit. There is evidence of oil frothing (it is a high rpm splash lube system after all) so be sure to get an anti-froth package in your chosen synthetic oil. I would not use a standard non-detergent straight 30 weight dino compressor oil as was sold for the old style low rpm belt driven pucka pucka units sold in years past -- get you a specialty "synthetic" compressor oil. Bobistheoilguy posts say that Mobil 1 is commonly subbed into these units by cheapskates not wishing to spend $15 for 16 ounces of synthetic compressor oil. Mobil 1 is also apparently used my many industrial maintenance departments and has a decade of good performance data on high speed compressor uses. Weight of synthetic oil is a matter for debate. If you store your unit in the winter cold, get a multi-weight oil to keep the cold cranking amp draw from tripping your breaker (noted as an issue at Bob's). These high rpm compressors get as hot as an air cooled bike engine does, so the same multi-weight thoughts do really apply here. Same new oil technology that gets your car to last 300,000 miles will help your high rpm compressor to last a long time. Hey, I know nobody does it, but actually changing your compressor oil every 2-3 years would likely be a smart thing too. |
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Title: Re: Best deal ever on an air compressor !!! Post by Boule’tard on 01/18/10 at 10:17:05 Is the oil frothing such a bad thing on a splash-lube compressor? I mean, there's no oil pump that can end up sucking air, and the frothing action might help the "feature" you mentioned earlier. |
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Title: Re: Best deal ever on an air compressor !!! Post by Oldfeller on 01/18/10 at 13:03:09 Yep, the frothing is natural, but turning your oil into a finely divided smoothie that stays that way can help promote oxidation and oil breakdown into varnish/sludge products should you use some "standard" 30w non-detergent compressor oil in a high speed direct drive compressor. Most auto oils have anti-froth additives of some sort which could be helpful in this case and remember the direct high speed type compressors really do get pretty hot too. Compressors can have issues with varnish build up on the flutter valves gumming up the works and causing low performance or slow pressure build up. I will use some carb cleaner on my old pucka pucka machine to see if I can get it to do a little better now that I can take it out of service for a while to work on it. I tend to follow the logic of the BITOG people who are using the Mobile 1 full synthetic for $7 a quart, you got no wet clutch to worry about so even having an energy star on the bottle would be helpful, not hurtful for this particular application. Heck, I might even go one past the Mobile 1 idea and pick me something that is known to run good in them really big 8 to 10 cylinder 6,000 max rpm 20:1 style air compressors, something with anti-foam and ZDDP and all those other known "good stuffs" in it ... |
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