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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> On Quick Deceleration Tire or Belt Barks /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1261749856 Message started by Ebikerman on 12/25/09 at 06:04:16 |
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Title: On Quick Deceleration Tire or Belt Barks Post by Ebikerman on 12/25/09 at 06:04:16 I am sure you guys and gals are tired of hearing about my noises. Hope this is the last one. When I let off the gas I get a kind of bark sound which my mechanic thinks is the belt or the rear tire. It will not do it in first gear, but does in the others. I think this new sound appeared after the mechanic installed the Verslagen1 cam chain tensioner. The new tensioner stopped the annoying cam chain noise I had before. If you have any ideas including belt too loose or tire actually slipping on deceleration, please present your comments....Thanks, Dan |
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Title: Re: On Quick Deceleration Tire or Belt Barks Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/25/09 at 07:04:55 1st seems like the most violent gear to decel in. So, Im surprised it doesnt do it in first. Id have alook at the front pulley & then try to figure it by the sound, front or rear? A passenger might help you find it, |
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Title: Re: On Quick Deceleration Tire or Belt Barks Post by Ebikerman on 12/25/09 at 07:08:32 Thanks for the suggestion. Another idea came to my mind...Do you suppose the sound could come from the dampers in the rear pulley? Just a guess....Dan |
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Title: Re: On Quick Deceleration Tire or Belt Barks Post by Boule’tard on 12/25/09 at 07:42:31 Yes your bike is a bit of a hypochondriac, maybe you should fit a Harley muffler and cover up some of those noises? ;) Have you thrown out the "belt tensioner" tool and checked your belt tension by the twist method yet? Tightening the belt fixed a noise on mine.. it was more of a squeak than a bark though. |
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Title: Re: On Quick Deceleration Tire or Belt Barks Post by verslagen1 on 12/25/09 at 08:13:17 What? Your bike speaks to you? Just like a dog you say... (pssst ix nay on the azy kay) ;D Check the nut (pardon the expression) on the drive pulley. When it gets loose the pulley can work back and forth. |
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Title: Re: On Quick Deceleration Tire or Belt Barks Post by Serowbot on 12/25/09 at 08:57:27 Put a bit of oil, or wax, or powder on your belt,,... if that changes the noise, you've found the culprit... |
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Title: Re: On Quick Deceleration Tire or Belt Barks Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/25/09 at 14:34:23 22252E2C22352A2629470 wrote:
That was my second guess, but Id check that pulley, because it can cost $$$ if it gets too loose. Can you get someone to ride w/ you & listen? Might be able to figure better where its from, |
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Title: Re: On Quick Deceleration Tire or Belt Barks Post by Ebikerman on 12/25/09 at 18:48:44 How do you hold that pulley still while you tighten it? I thought about moving the bike back and forth in the shop and watching that pulley for improper movement. Think that would produce any helpful information? THANKS TO ALL.....Dan |
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Title: Re: On Quick Deceleration Tire or Belt Barks Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/25/09 at 21:58:34 Dang, heckuva good question. Ive seen the answer, but cant 'member.. |
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Title: Re: On Quick Deceleration Tire or Belt Barks Post by Boule’tard on 12/26/09 at 08:24:27 I would guess you can put the bike in neutral, hold the rear brake, and the belt will hold it still(?) This technique works great with a chain drive bike, but I never tried it on the Savage.. make sure the belt is tight first. |
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Title: Re: On Quick Deceleration Tire or Belt Barks Post by verslagen1 on 12/26/09 at 10:11:36 If I remember correctly, when I loosened it, I had the front against a wall, in 1st gear, but in saddle, brick blocking rear tire, foot on brake before I could get it loose. |
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Title: Re: On Quick Deceleration Tire or Belt Barks Post by Ebikerman on 12/26/09 at 10:33:19 Which way loosens the pulley nut? Probably clock wise to loosen & counter clock wise to tighten. Would it be safe to use an electric impact wrench to loosen or tighten it? My impact wrench has no adjustment for impact. Wide open all the time, I think. I may have an air powered socket wrench as well. I will have to look. |
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Title: Re: On Quick Deceleration Tire or Belt Barks Post by Ebikerman on 12/26/09 at 10:43:05 As far as installing a Harley muffler....I sure would like to do that, but I am constrained to stay within the law. Legal, you know. That is part of my life as a Christian. In past times I have tried loud mufflers on my Sportster and Honda Rebel only to get them off as soon as possible. Too loud for me, yet I would like a little more sound out of my S40. It is so quiet, how can it even be up to the sound level limit? Thanks again all.....Dan |
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Title: Re: On Quick Deceleration Tire or Belt Barks Post by Boule’tard on 12/26/09 at 11:13:31 3A3D36343A2D323E315F0 wrote:
I doubt the threads are left handed. See this post (http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1168279053/3#3) by JOG as to why. I am away for Christmas but will return home to my shop manual this evening.. will try to remember to look up the correct rotation and post if no one else verifies it for you. Obviously you want to make sure of which way to turn the nut before taking an impact wrench to it, but since you have one, it should come off easily by holding the brake and using very short bursts of the wrench. There is also a "stick a broomstick against the pulley" method but I would save that as a last resort. |
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Title: Re: On Quick Deceleration Tire or Belt Barks Post by Serowbot on 12/26/09 at 11:58:36 Righty tighty.... lefty loosey.... I think it's the clutch on the other side that's reverse.... I had a friend come over and hold the rear brake while sitting on the bike... otherwise,... you might stick a broom handle through the rear pulley spoke and let it jam against the swingarm?... |
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Title: Re: On Quick Deceleration Tire or Belt Barks Post by verslagen1 on 12/26/09 at 13:10:25 Loosening makes the bike go forward. Tightening makes it go backward. |
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Title: Re: On Quick Deceleration Tire or Belt Barks Post by BurnPgh on 12/26/09 at 13:18:37 righty tighty for sure unless they've changed anything from 95 to now. Get a buddy to hit the rear brake or get a good strong broomstick. You'll definately need an impact wrench. |
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Title: Re: On Quick Deceleration Tire or Belt Barks Post by Boule’tard on 12/26/09 at 19:04:25 Serowbot and BurnPgh are correct according to the manual.. the threads are just standard righty tighty/lefty loosey.. and a "nut lock washer" you have to unlock. There's nothing in there about the broomstick method to hold the pulley though.. just the brake. That and the impact wrench should spin it off in no time. Retightening torque is 72.5-94 ft*lbs. |
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Title: Re: On Quick Deceleration Tire or Belt Barks Post by verslagen1 on 12/26/09 at 21:46:49 The broom stick should be a last ditch resort. As you could shear off some spokes. |
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Title: Re: On Quick Deceleration Tire or Belt Barks Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/26/09 at 22:40:45 Its pretty hard to roll the bike over a 4X4. Ill bet with one up against the rear tire with someone on the brake hard, no broomstick would be needed. Especially if a guy had an impact. |
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Title: Re: On Quick Deceleration Tire or Belt Barks Post by BurnPgh on 12/27/09 at 04:01:51 203324253A3731333867560 wrote:
Good call. I keep forgetting most people here still have spokes ;D |
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Title: Re: On Quick Deceleration Tire or Belt Barks Post by serenity3743 on 01/04/10 at 10:22:11 586F68744A7D721A0 wrote:
Good call. I keep forgetting most people here still have spokes ;D[/quote] It's not just the wheel spokes you have to worry about. It's also the spokes on the rear belt pulley, and I did break one when trying to either tighten or loosen the front belt pulley. But if you have a chain, I guess that would be different too. |
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Title: Re: On Quick Deceleration Tire/Belt Barks SOLVED Post by Ebikerman on 01/04/10 at 10:47:17 Thanks All for your interest & advice. Turns out the problem was fixed by a simple tighting of the belt.....Dan |
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Title: Re: On Quick Deceleration Tire/Belt Barks SOLVED Post by verslagen1 on 01/04/10 at 13:53:04 6D6A61636D7A656966080 wrote:
I acquired a drive pulley with worn out teeth. Not that I intend to do anything with it, just a warning. Did you tighten the Drive Pulley Nut? And what tension did you tighten the belt too? |
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Title: Re: On Quick Deceleration Tire or Belt Barks Post by Digger on 01/04/10 at 20:15:55 In regards to loosening the drive pulley: It was a cinch for me because I had the bike snugged down on my lift. No way was it going to roll forward as I broke that pulley nut loose! http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee201/Digger109/KendonLift-LSE.jpg |
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Title: Re: On Quick Deceleration Tire or Belt Barks Post by BurnPgh on 01/04/10 at 23:05:45 nice lift. looks pricey. Im kind of sick of the bottle jack and 2x4s/milk crate |
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Title: Re: On Quick Deceleration Tire or Belt Barks Post by Ebikerman on 01/05/10 at 09:10:38 My belt tension was really too loose. It had untensioned slack on the bottom run. I used the tensioner that came in the tool kit. I know many of you do not like it. However it should give repeatable readings. I only had to tighten a little to get the excess slack out. I had it pretty loose before. It is not overly tight now. The twist method is not very accurate and not repeatable. Too subjective for the final adjustment. I did not tighten the drive pulley. It did not seem necessary since it has a lock washer and tightening the belt stopped the noise. My belt was so loose that I believe it sort of wadded up in the front pulley on deceleration, thus scrubing the sides of the pulley. If I am wrong, let me know...Dan |
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Title: Re: On Quick Deceleration Tire or Belt Barks Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/05/10 at 09:13:35 It may have been slopping out & hitting the case ib front of the drive pulley. Not much room in there. |
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Title: Re: On Quick Deceleration Tire or Belt Barks Post by Ebikerman on 01/05/10 at 09:15:13 Digger, Where did you get that cool lift? I want one. It is not so bulky as some. Please direct me to where I can purchase one. About what does it cost too? Thanks, Dan |
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Title: Re: On Quick Deceleration Tire or Belt Barks Post by verslagen1 on 01/05/10 at 09:21:02 Hey Dan, whatever works for you [smiley=thumbsup.gif] I questioned your input only to have better understanding of your fix. I recently had the belt guards off and noted how loose the belt seems. But I've had none of the issues you've stated. |
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Title: Re: On Quick Deceleration Tire or Belt Barks Post by Ebikerman on 01/05/10 at 09:27:17 I have issues no one else has ???? Anyway, This belt noise never occured while I rode the bike previous to having the cam chain of your construction installed. My mechanic pointed it out to me. What changed while he had the bike, I do not know. I do know that it had nothing to do with the cam chain tensioner installation. Again if I am wrong I will appreciate knowing it....Dan |
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Title: Re: On Quick Deceleration Tire or Belt Barks Post by Charon on 01/05/10 at 09:37:43 I have been curious - perhaps "dubious" would be a better word - about the ninety-degree twist method of checking belt tightness. Last time I checked on mine I found that the difference in tightness between using the said-to-be-worthless belt gauge supplied by Suzuki and the ninety-degree-twist method was less than one turn on the belt adjusting screws. The Suzuki spring gauge is at least repeatable. I am sure we are all possessed of different degrees of strength in whichever hand we choose to use in the twist method, which will result in different tightnesses of the belt. If I didn't agree with Suzuki's gauge, I would consider using instead of the middle mark on it, one of the other marks. Or, having adjusted the belt to "correct" I would insert the gauge and make another mark on it for repeatability. |
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Title: Re: On Quick Deceleration Tire or Belt Barks Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/05/10 at 09:53:25 3E3932303E29363A355B0 wrote:
Is it perkier on accel? |
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Title: Re: On Quick Deceleration Tire or Belt Barks Post by Ebikerman on 01/05/10 at 10:06:01 Not perkier that I can tell...Dan |
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Title: Re: On Quick Deceleration Tire or Belt Barks Post by Ebikerman on 01/05/10 at 10:07:57 CHARON, We agree on the use of the Suzuki tensioner....Dan |
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Title: Re: On Quick Deceleration Tire or Belt Barks Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/05/10 at 10:44:14 7C7B70727C6B747877190 wrote:
Again, Charon offers a logical approach. I am forced to reconsider. |
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Title: Re: On Quick Deceleration Tire or Belt Barks Post by verslagen1 on 01/05/10 at 11:30:45 The PO lost the tool kit so I had to learn the 90° twist method. Luckily, it was correctly tensioned when I got it so learning the correct twist was easy. Comments made over the years have been varied from "piece of crap" to good tool I surmise from either from a build up of mfg tolerances to someone with 2 left thumbs. I suspect that the best method for measuring tension is the same method used for chains, hold the belt up, then hold it down, should be x" in between. |
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Title: Re: On Quick Deceleration Tire or Belt Barks Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/05/10 at 11:46:18 & remember to put it in 1st & roll it back to get all the slack in the bottom of the belt. |
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Title: Re: On Quick Deceleration Tire or Belt Barks Post by Ebikerman on 01/05/10 at 11:47:59 Verslagen 1, Who can supply the correct value for "X"?... Dan |
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Title: Re: On Quick Deceleration Tire or Belt Barks Post by serenity3743 on 01/05/10 at 13:04:38 382B3C3D222F292B207F4E0 wrote:
And I'm guessing that you could best obtain the value for X" by using the tensioning tool to get it right, measure X, and use X as a quick check based on those findings. |
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Title: Re: On Quick Deceleration Tire or Belt Barks Post by Charon on 01/06/10 at 06:24:13 Verslagen, how do you get the little "degree" symbol to appear? |
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Title: Re: On Quick Deceleration Tire or Belt Barks Post by verslagen1 on 01/06/10 at 07:15:50 Character codes can be looked up in "character map" To type those special characters press and hold the left "alt" key and type in the code. For "°", type in 0176. |
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Title: Re: On Quick Deceleration Tire or Belt Barks Post by babyhog on 01/06/10 at 08:54:34 243720213E3335373C63520 wrote:
I never knew that, thanks Versy!! :) You can also use the "sup" button (superscript) and use a small letter "o" between the brackets. 90o |
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Title: Re: On Quick Deceleration Tire or Belt Barks Post by Digger on 01/06/10 at 21:38:40 66616A6866716E626D030 wrote:
For those who like to use the belt gauge (you know who you are), don't set the belt any tighter than this: http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee201/Digger109/BeltTensionGaugeE.jpg Actually, the gauge should be positioned such that its longitudinal axis is perpendicular to the belt. Mine is set a little off of the perpendicular in the above photo. Currently, the belt on my Savage (see signature) is a tad too tight (I can rotate the belt about 85 degrees). If the gauge in the picture were set perfectly at the perpendicular, it would indicate a bit tighter than it does in the photo. I figure my slightly over-tight belt cancels out the slight mispositioning of the tension gauge, soooo..... Bottom line? Don't use the gauge, set your belt tension via the twist method. If you insist on using the gauge, set the belt tension no tighter than what you see on the above photo. YMMV! |
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Title: Re: On Quick Deceleration Tire or Belt Barks Post by Digger on 01/06/10 at 21:41:42 5F5853515F48575B543A0 wrote:
E, This tells all: http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1219028509/0 IHTH! [smiley=thumbup.gif] |
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Title: Re: On Quick Deceleration Tire or Belt Barks Post by Digger on 01/06/10 at 21:46:56 796660677A7D4C7C4C74666A21130 wrote:
Somehow, this seems like it would give you a false reading....the belt would indicate as tighter than it really was, I'm guessin'. 10 JAN 2010 UPDATE: I retract this statement. It shouldn't affect the reading much at all. I agree w/ Charon, below. |
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Title: Re: On Quick Deceleration Tire or Belt Barks Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/06/10 at 21:50:38 Step back & thunk again.. That puts the slack in the bottom. Unless we set the belt up the same every time, we cant repeat the tensioning. Imagine puttin in gear & rolling forward, that would tension the bottom of the belt. The slack would be in the top. Or, picture in your mind grabbing the rear wheel, w/ it in gear & pulling the slack either way. |
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Title: Re: On Quick Deceleration Tire or Belt Barks Post by Charon on 01/07/10 at 05:48:26 As long as the transmission is in Neutral, the drive pulley is free to rotate. Putting the gauge in place, or twisting the belt (or lifting the chain if applicable) would cause the opposite side to become taut anyway. I can't see rolling the bike either way making a difference. |
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Title: Re: On Quick Deceleration Tire or Belt Barks Post by Ebikerman on 01/07/10 at 06:00:59 That lift looks great to me. The only possible negative would be that the side rails on the ramp seem to limit your ability to access the under side of the bike. For more stability, all you woukd need to do is weld or clamp some wider metal or wood pieces to the bottom. I sort of favor the 600lb capacity lift. Thanks for sharing this with me...Dan |
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Title: Re: On Quick Deceleration Tire or Belt Barks Post by Ebikerman on 01/07/10 at 06:04:04 Good thinking Charon. Neutral is the way....Dan |
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Title: Re: On Quick Deceleration Tire or Belt Barks Post by Digger on 01/10/10 at 20:09:46 57505B5957405F535C320 wrote:
The ramp is quite narrow and I can access the underside of the bike easily. I also ordered a frame jack with the lift, allowing me to raise the front or rear of the bike. Stability is not a problem with either my Savage (see signature) or SWMBO's KLR650 up there. I've not yet tried the lift with any of my bigger bikes. |
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