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Message started by Boule’tard on 12/24/09 at 09:38:22

Title: How to fix snapped throttle cable?
Post by Boule’tard on 12/24/09 at 09:38:22

Hey guys,
I just broke my throttle cable right at the grip end. The cable stop just came right off, probably from me twisting and turning it (weakening the strands) while trying to install. Normally I would just get another S40 cable, but it's not the stock item. It is a custom Barnett cable that goes with a Mikuni VM carb.

The cable is long enough for me to mount another cable stop and reuse it. I have tried machining a nut and bolt into a small cylinder, which I set the cable in and tried to solder them together, but apparently with steel, the solder won't flow to where the flux is and bond properly, like it does on copper or brass. I have searched and found that the soldering can be done, but you have to have a particular kind of solder and a heated solder pool to dip the connection in.

So I found these screw-on type cable stops (http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/DOR3/03338.oap?keyword=cable+stops). It looks like it will hold about as long as the previous one that I mangled. Anyway, I got one and cut it down to the size it needs to be. I will reinforce the connection with some JB weld and install it, unless someone has a better idea.

As a last resort I'll just take the whole cable out, measure and describe it carefully, then just contact Barnett for another cable. Recommendations on other cable makers would be good too.

Title: Re: How to fix snapped throttle cable?
Post by Serowbot on 12/24/09 at 09:52:40

Can you get someone to weld a little ball bearing on the end?... or just melt a blob on it?...:-?

Title: Re: How to fix snapped throttle cable?
Post by Boule’tard on 12/24/09 at 10:10:44

I could take my cylindrical nut-and-bolt thing and hit it with a mig welder. But I think the cable has to go into a softer material. Otherwise it will just break again at the edge of the weld. Thanks for the suggestion though, it gives me an idea. If the screw-on connector fails, I'll go back to the nut/bolt thing, weld it, and make a transition out of JB weld, maybe 1/2" long(?) :-/

Title: Re: How to fix snapped throttle cable?
Post by verslagen1 on 12/24/09 at 10:20:16

I've used the cylindrical doohichy and it held up for as long as I had the scooter.

And if you had a welder, I'd do it that way. Tight fitting hole will put all the stress on the cable, not the weld.

Title: Re: How to fix snapped throttle cable?
Post by Boule’tard on 12/24/09 at 10:36:55

One thing the screw-on cable stop has going for it is that the hole that pinches the cable is soft brass. Perhaps a judicious combination of torque and epoxy will make that work "as long as I have the scooter." That would be awesome.

Verslagen1 probably has a fine TIG welder that bathes the metal in argon while heat is applied with a needle-point electrode, resulting in a jewelry quality and food grade weld. But mine's a Miller 211.. POP! Where'd that connector go? Oh, I see NASA has just picked up another piece of orbiting space junk ;D

Title: Re: How to fix snapped throttle cable?
Post by verslagen1 on 12/24/09 at 11:07:49

474A50494051445741250 wrote:

Where'd that connector go? Oh, I see NASA has just picked up another piece of orbiting space junk ;D

ROFLMAO ;D

Title: Re: How to fix snapped throttle cable?
Post by Oldfeller on 12/24/09 at 11:15:01

You can make the cylinder out of brass or steel, both will work with normal solder.

The way to do the trick with solder is to thru drill the cable hole at cable diameter, then come back from one end with a larger drill bit drilling a little over half way thru.

You now have a stepped two diameter hole, small size being exact tight fit to the cable and the other half being a good bit bigger. Install the cable from small side, then fray the tip of the cable out a bit into a spray that is then pulled into the large hole diameter. Beat the fray out with a nail punch to get a firm expansion in the hole and give a sharp kink to the wire at the diameter change.

Use a soldering iron, not a torch to do the soldering. Apply all heat to the cylinder, not to the wire. You do not want to soften the hardened steel wire in the cable any more than you have to.

Solder and acid core flux is applied normally. Solder will generally stick to the one item but will not stick to the other as the flux is not perfect for the job. That's ok, because the solidified solder supports the frayed form of the cable and does not allow it to pull thru.

Grind off the excess wire and solder at the big hole end and you are good to go until the wire fatigues through again right upstream from the cylinder.

You do realize that JB Weld epoxy can do the wire support trick about as good as solder can do, but it takes a lot longer to set up and harden and you HAVE to get the wire clean to get it to stick right?

Trick/Tip:

The outer cable can have the ferrule pulled off with a pair of pliers and the outer shell shortened enough to make the protruding "free wire" equal to what it was originally. Don't forget to put the ferrule back on, of course.

Title: Re: How to fix snapped throttle cable?
Post by Boule’tard on 12/24/09 at 11:44:13

BY GAR Oldfeller, I think that will work! It never occurred to me that it could be done in such a way that the solder doesn't really have to BOND to anything, it just has to entangle with bent-over strands enough to keep them from pulling out.

That means I can just get some brass stock, turn it down to the right diameter, and drill the different diameter holes as you describe. I imagine there is something like that in this cable fittings kit (http://www.motionpro.com/motorcycle/partno/01-0055/) but there's no way I'm spending $118 on the hope that it has the ONE fitting I need.

Verslagen1, glad I could make you laugh bro.. sorry no fireworks today!

Title: Re: How to fix snapped throttle cable?
Post by Oldfeller on 12/24/09 at 13:24:38

Get your digital camera out and take pictures of you doing the dirty deed. Post it in the tech section along with all the little extra things you figure out while you are doing it.

A new cable costs what, $20 now days? What, even more?

If you have a drill press and a table vise you can drill out the existing zinc cylinder fitting and not even have to make you up a new cylinder.

It takes an hour or so of fiddle time, but you already own all the bits and pieces you need to do the job so your net out of pocket cost is zero dollars.

<Hee hee> Give the "idea credit" to Master Yoda, the old skinflint taught me the trick a long time ago in a distant galaxy far far away.

Title: Re: How to fix snapped throttle cable?
Post by Boule’tard on 12/24/09 at 14:12:29

Will do.. if it's a success, it will be a tech how-to. I think a Barnett cable like mine is more like $40 or $50 after they get done "custom building" it for you. The Barnett zinc fitting is a little smaller than stock, which I suspect caused it to skew sideways from how it's supposed to sit in the throttle tube. That may have contributed to the failure. So I will make a new one exactly the right size. Thank you Master Yoda for the idea ;)

Title: Re: How to fix snapped throttle cable?
Post by prechermike on 12/24/09 at 14:30:58

Boule'tard

Have you considered the seafoam and klotz sewing machine oil thing, like for the clutch cable? ;)

Title: Re: How to fix snapped throttle cable?
Post by Boule’tard on 12/24/09 at 15:56:24

Yes, but I figure a Rotella T-fitting is closer to what I need..

Title: Re: How to fix snapped throttle cable?
Post by Digger on 01/03/10 at 21:44:19

737E647D7465706375110 wrote:

....Recommendations on other cable makers would be good too.

Motion Pro Custom Cables (http://www.motionpro.com/custom/index.php)

Title: Re: How to fix snapped throttle cable?
Post by Boule’tard on 01/04/10 at 09:56:20

Thank you Digger, I was unaware that Motion Pro did custom cables. Hopefully they are more durable than Barnett cables. For anyone else who may need one, the link to custom Motion Pro cables is here (http://www.motionpro.com/custom/index.php). The other link was for a storage rack on amazon.

Title: Re: How to fix snapped throttle cable?
Post by Digger on 01/04/10 at 20:05:58

Oops!

Good catch! I fixed the link in my post.

I'm an idiot! :-[

Title: Re: How to fix snapped throttle cable?
Post by Boule’tard on 01/05/10 at 19:49:20

5E737D7D7F681A0 wrote:

Oops! ...

Not at all. You saved me some money and probably a bunch of trouble, since their measuring system is very straightforward. I owe ya one :)

Title: Re: How to fix snapped throttle cable?
Post by marine5317 on 01/07/10 at 17:58:26

You can grab the cable with plyers about 3/16 from the end and peen it a little with a ballpeen hammer to flare the end. Now dip the end in some alcohol to clean it. If you have any tinners flux, dip it in the to. Now you can use a hand held propane torch and 70/30 silver solder and braze a little ball on the end. It will last forever if you do it right. DO NOT get the cable to hot or it will become brittle and break.

Ride Safe
Marine5317

Title: Re: How to fix snapped throttle cable?
Post by Boule’tard on 01/07/10 at 20:14:54

Hi marine5317,
Before I gave up and decided to replace the cable, I tried frizzing the end and soldering it to a cable stop I machined out of a piece of aluminum. It didn't work so great. I used a butane torch, which throws a much smaller flame than your typical propane/plumbing torch.. less likely to ruin the cable. I cleaned and fluxed everything thoroughly, kept the flame moving, etc. but the solder would not go into the connection at all. I just made blobs of solder on top of the frayed cable. Anyway, I posted a tech thread (http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1262415202) on what NOT to try unless you are really good at soldering.

Title: Re: How to fix snapped throttle cable?
Post by Oldfeller on 01/09/10 at 16:00:26

Based on solder skills not being universal -- try using JB Weld to do the same trick. It will take longer to set up but will be "easier" to do.

Title: Re: How to fix snapped throttle cable?
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/09/10 at 16:37:44

Would using brass work better, instead of aluminum?

Title: Re: How to fix snapped throttle cable?
Post by verslagen1 on 01/09/10 at 17:00:15

Another way would be to get a steel tube and a pin to fit inside.
Drill a hole in one side of the tube.
insert the wire and hammer the pin in to pinch the wire between the inside wall of the tube and the pin.
be sure to round the inside edge of the hole or it will cut the wire.

Title: Re: How to fix snapped throttle cable?
Post by Boule’tard on 01/09/10 at 21:29:11

6B747275686F5E6E5E66747833010 wrote:

Would using brass work better, instead of aluminum?

Yeah, the solder would have stuck to brass way better than aluminum. Oldfeller esplains all that in the tech thread.

53405756494442404B14250 wrote:

...insert the wire and hammer the pin in to pinch the wire between the inside wall of the tube and the pin..

That sounds pretty good, and would probably last as long as one of those screw-on cable stops (wire pinched by screw against brass). I was shooting for something as good as new though.. in this case, perfection was the enemy of the good.