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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> my bobber project /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1261081899 Message started by Bobbert on 12/17/09 at 12:31:38 |
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Title: my bobber project Post by Bobbert on 12/17/09 at 12:31:38 Been a while since I posted here. I've been swamped with school and an internship for the past 4 months. For those of you who don't know me, I'm Rob and I live in Los Angeles. (FYI my name is mashup of "Robert" and "Bobber", I am not BobberT) I took my bike apart in June to replace all the gaskets and check the engine. September was the last time I did anything to the bike until this week when I put some hours in. Here is the bike before I started the teardown: http://photos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v3786/58/36/1155150064/n1155150064_30435716_4561158.jpg http://photos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v3786/58/36/1155150064/n1155150064_30435719_2687368.jpg Now the fun stuff: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3507/3969759615_cc6cd96661.jpg Here you can see that the exhaust valve stem seal was bad. It was burning all the oil in the head and making my bike smell like Quwait in 91. http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2606/3970530740_ff1cdc5bb1.jpg Oh no! The burning of oil kept my engine too hot, causing these these wires to become brittle and break: http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2598/3969761967_780f51b144.jpg http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2521/3970524594_434260e5a5.jpg To cut or not to cut? http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2668/3970570784_4f66e27789.jpg lets CUT! http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2511/3969801685_a4d3d9f073.jpg |
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Title: Re: my bobber project Post by Rocco on 12/17/09 at 12:35:07 sweeet! i appreciate any teardown!! |
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Title: Re: my bobber project Post by Bobbert on 12/17/09 at 12:40:20 horns are no more: http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2504/3970573438_fc6f044e9a.jpg put the engine back in: http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2510/3970955680_61469dba0f.jpg a little farther along: http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2673/4148831499_d3432c4ecf.jpg I repainted the frame and the headlight: http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2515/4149592290_7223c3ab5c.jpg I spent countless hours sanding the old zinc coating off the side covers. My suggestion for anyone repeating this is to get MORE POWER *grunt grunt* and just use the wire brush on an angle grinder. Here's the difference. Left is original, right is all cleaned up: http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2427/3969764629_b81691efcd.jpg Bike partly back together: http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2730/4149592982_2839c9e46b.jpg I decided to replace the bars. Here are the old 10" harley apes:http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2768/4148891915_c51243fcfa.jpg Custom bars courtesy of Front Street Cycles ($125): http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2433/4149653350_ab99257867.jpg http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2661/4148894129_f4243960f4.jpg |
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Title: Re: my bobber project Post by Bobbert on 12/17/09 at 12:52:09 122F23232F400 wrote:
Yeah! You really get to know the bike inside and out. It's like having sex with your bike! I'm going to treat any exposed metal with a good wire brushing. I did it to part of my engine and it looks beautiful. I'm going to try hardtailing the bike and mounting the seat on springs. If I like the ride then I'm going to have gussets welded between the swingarm and the frame and cut off the shock posts. The savage has a tall narrow frame and a narrow engine but with the belt drive the back end gets real wide. The bars will be free from electronics and I'm going to replace the grips and levers with something more retro. I'm going to install a switch that cuts all power to headlights and have the high beam switch on the light or down by my crotch with the main disconnect. I'm going with a new headlight that sticks farther out from the trees to accentuate the tall skinny front end. I'm going manual decomp. I'm going to fab up a handle on the decomp lever and mount the starter button on the frame right next to it. Push the lever, hit the starter button, release the lever, and keep on the button until she fires up. I've got a $10 combo brake light/plate light that's going to be mounted vertically on the right to balance out the size of the belt drive. Battery will be mounted either where the old muffler bracket went or in between the foot controls. I love the open look of the bike without the airbox or battery box. Electrics will be grouped under a plate underneath the seat. I tried to repair my burnt out wiring harness but the only wiring connectors I could find were ugly crimp and shrinkwrap ones so I'm buying another wiring harness and working from there. I'm probably going to make a Diamond Jim straight pipe. If I'm not burnt out from all this I'm going to take a grinder to the welds in the frame. There's slag all over it. Since Im going for tall and skinny I'm going to mount a small (2 gal?) tank on top of the frame. |
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Title: Re: my bobber project Post by JohnBoy on 12/17/09 at 22:42:48 Perhaps I am missing something, but I don't understand how you have the rear fender mounted. It appears, from the photos, that you have the fender hard mounted where you cut the horns off. But the rear fender braces appear to be mounted to the swing arm? How does one mount the fender to the frame, but have it move with the swingarm? I do admire that you have the guts to cut the frame and “burn your bridges”. I am inspired to do it myself. |
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Title: Re: my bobber project Post by verslagen1 on 12/17/09 at 22:50:45 Aircraft stripper does a good job on the clear coat on the cases. |
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Title: Re: my bobber project Post by Rocco on 12/17/09 at 23:06:35 haha "sex with your bike" i've been doing it wrong!! lol! i actually like the 10" mini's better, but the drags are sick. and i agree the battery box is the only thing wrong with the looks of things! |
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Title: Re: my bobber project Post by Savage_Amusement on 12/19/09 at 07:44:08 Great work. I'm really interested in some more pics of the back of the bike with the fender attachment and fender struts. This is exactly up my alley for where my project will hopefully soon be heading. Thanks and keep up the great work. |
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Title: Re: my bobber project Post by Charon on 12/20/09 at 11:32:58 It isn't clear to me whether you are going to have the headlight remain ON as is stock, or whether you plan to turn it OFF except when you need it. But it occurred to me that, the way the voltage regulator works, you might want to leave it ON. Reason: the voltage regulator/alternator produces full power at all times. As the battery charges, this full power becomes excess to requirements and the voltage regulator shunts the extra to ground. If you turn off the headlight, and perhaps the running lights, the regulator will have even more excess power to shunt. The sixty or seventy watts of headlight, taillight, and running lights will go through the regulator and might cause overheating problems with it. At the very least you will want to make sure the regulator is solidly mounted to something which can act as a heat sink. |
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Title: Re: my bobber project Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/20/09 at 13:26:47 406B62716C6D030 wrote:
That would certainly explain why the system requirements are so close to the output. Theres just not much power to tap to use for accessories. I never understood why they designed the thing that way. Now, it is all clear. Thanks Charon. |
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Title: Re: my bobber project Post by Bobbert on 12/20/09 at 14:11:32 7E524F53584F4E49524F580E0D0D0D3D0 wrote:
I can tell you that a fender with this much clearance from the tire will not work if the bike is using the stock shocks. I'll take pictures for you. The fender's just going to be bolted to an angle iron bracket welded onto the swingarm and through holes drilled near the axle plates. I would recommend welding the mounting tabs to the top of the swingarm otherwise the axle adjustment plates bump into the fender struts. |
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Title: Re: my bobber project Post by Bobbert on 12/20/09 at 14:14:54 436861726F6E000 wrote:
I was going to have an off switch for starting and to be able to turn off the lights if I'm temporarily stopped in front of a window or warming the bike up. Does the regulator or the battery dump the excess current? |
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Title: Re: my bobber project Post by Yonuh Adisi on 12/20/09 at 16:29:18 Bobbers are not usually my thing, I prefer choppers. But dang dude, I have GOT to see that thing when you finish with it, it is gonna be one bad ass machine. |
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Title: Re: my bobber project Post by Charon on 12/20/09 at 17:41:08 Actually, I think my statement that the regulator shunts excess current to ground might be in error. But that was a simple way of expressing it. I think it really shunts excess current between the legs of the three-phase alternator (hope that didn't confuse you). The regulator will shunt the excess, not the battery. The regulator senses battery voltage (actually, its own output voltage, which should be the same). When the battery voltage reaches the voltage which indicates full charge, the regulator will start shunting anything in excess of that. The current flows through the stator windings and the regulator. The regulator is normally mounted on the fender, which acts as a heat sink, and the stator windings are in the engine case. The shunted current will cause heat not only in the regulator, but also in the stator windings. I do not know for sure that it would cause any problems, but I thought it might be worth mention. |
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Title: Re: my bobber project Post by Serowbot on 12/20/09 at 18:03:00 We should harness that wasted power and put it to use... ...to,.... power a propeller or somethin'... :-? |
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Title: Re: my bobber project Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/21/09 at 00:12:59 59727B6875741A0 wrote:
I wonder how much horsepower it uses to run that charge system. I cant remember the output wattage . Watts convert to HP easy enough IIRC. How hard would it be to put a regulator on that shut down the alternator? |
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Title: Re: my bobber project Post by Charon on 12/21/09 at 06:20:35 One horsepower is 746 watts. That's easy enough. That makes no allowance for efficiency factors, typically low in small alternators. The motorcycle alternator is differently designed from the automotive alternator. On the motorcycle (I'm sure there are exceptions) the flywheel carries permanent magnets past the stationary coils of the alternator - the "stator". Whenever the engine runs those magnets cause alternating current to be produced in the stator. The faster the engine turns, the faster the magnets pass the coils and the more current is generated. That alternating current - AC - is rectified by diodes in the regulator. The resulting direct current - DC - is used to power the motorcycle and recharge its battery. As the battery reaches full charge the voltage tends to rise. The regulator senses this. Remember those rectifiers? Some of them are silicon controlled rectifiers - SCRs. They are so arranged as to shunt some of the current, and they are controlled by the regulator. When the regulator decides the output voltage is high enough it turns on those SCRs and shunts enough current to control the output voltage. Because the regulator is electronic it literally controls the AC cycle by cycle. Automotive alternators are different, in that they do not use permanent magnets. Instead they use electromagnets. The voltage regulator controls the current through those electromagnets. When the output voltage rises high enough the regulator reduces the current through the electromagnets, which in turn reduces the output current. Since the current is controlled differently, they don't have nor need the SCRs. Automotive current loads are much more variable. Cars have more lights, they have windshield wipers, heater blowers, air conditioner compressor clutches, electric window defrosters, and so forth. Some even have electric power steering. They also have a lot more room to mount parts. And for the yobs with high-powered audio systems, the current demands are incredible. It might be possible to redesign the voltage regulator on the motorcycle to use switching transistors instead of SCRs. Then it might be possible to switch off the current instead of shunting it. But I suspect then there might be some pretty high-voltage spikes to control, which might burn the switching transistors. |
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Title: Re: my bobber project Post by Boule’tard on 12/21/09 at 07:41:18 Great work man!! Seeing these complete teardown/rebuilds is downright comforting, because it means the bike is mechanic-friendly enough to keep forever. 764B464156504B494B41240 wrote:
That is hilarious how you made the battery all sexy with the belt ;D I am still having good luck with the Yuasa motocross battery mounted on the muffler bracket (see "mini battery install" in the tech section). If you keep the same headlight cutoff and decomp solenoid as stock, the little Yuasa starts the bike just as fast as the stock battery. Also, I am sure the brackets and hold-down bolts can be put together without welds. Polishing old clearcoat off and just buffing out the aluminum makes it look really good as-is, the "brushed stainless" look.. but then I think the remaining roughness will cause it to oxidize sooner than if you really slick it out. Per Mick's advice, I'd follow the wire wheel treatment up with some "Mother's" aluminum polish, just as a protective measure. Does anyone know how often you have to re-polish (or re-brush for that matter) to keep the finish looking good? Or should we try to put on another clear-coat? Don't you just love all us armchair professors telling you what's best? ;D Fantastic job dude, can't wait to see the final result. |
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Title: Re: my bobber project Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/21/09 at 20:45:39 It might be possible to redesign the voltage regulator on the motorcycle to use switching transistors instead of SCRs. Then it might be possible to switch off the current instead of shunting it. But I suspect then there might be some pretty high-voltage spikes to control, which might burn the switching transistors. Yea, maybe, but the HP of swinging the magnets thru the flux fields & creating a Voltage would still be spent,, dangitt,, Darn good explanation, C. Thaks again |
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Title: Re: my bobber project Post by Boule’tard on 12/22/09 at 08:05:17 5A454344595E6F5F6F57454902300 wrote:
Actually I think there would be a savings (albeit a measly 1/10 HP or so) by disconnecting the magnets so no current is drawn. I wouldn't do it though (and can't back that up with a good reason) but it just seems likely to smoke something, or perhaps evaporate your electrolyte faster, if you keep switching from zero to full voltage. The regulator seems like a "smoother" solution. It keeps the battery fully topped up all the time, which is how lead-acid batteries like to be treated. The waste energy can be minimized by running your high beam. Honk the horn a lot too :D |
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Title: Re: my bobber project Post by SimonTuffGuy on 12/31/09 at 17:20:19 I remember seeing pictures of your build as I was thinking of what to do with my bike. Can't wait to see the newly finished product! |
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Title: Re: my bobber project Post by diamond jim on 01/15/10 at 19:03:16 Bobbert, looking good, Bro. Did you get around to fabbing a straight pipe or did you go another route? |
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Title: Re: my bobber project Post by verslagen1 on 01/15/10 at 19:37:26 Diamond Jim!!!! are ya back??? So happy to hear from you. [smiley=2vrolijk_08.gif] |
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Title: Re: my bobber project Post by diamond jim on 01/15/10 at 19:52:18 Happy to be back on here. You guys rock! |
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Title: Re: my bobber project Post by Bobbert on 02/07/10 at 12:54:29 Diamond Jim- I think I'm going to keep using my HD fishtail. It's not the perfect looking pipe but it's still got edge and it sounds amazing. "Chopper" describes both the way my bike looks and sounds! UPDATE 2/7/10 I'm wiring up the electrics at the moment. I cut out plates to mount the components. Here's the plate with the starter relay and the fuse panel. http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4018/4333035687_7f35defd30.jpg Back side starter relay http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4051/4333779760_db32229a17.jpg Front side fuse panel http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4047/4333038605_6a9eb0c396.jpg Here are the two plates I made mounted to the frame. The plate underneath the seat is gonna hold the ignitor box. http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2722/4333777112_bca5c72936.jpg The ignitor box in position on the top plate. http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2770/4333770282_4797850f94.jpg Routing of the wires (in cloth sheath) towards the front of the bike. http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2736/4333771584_b403eab013.jpg The supply to the front of the bike goes to the spark plug (top sheath) and the starter button (bottom sheath) http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4072/4333772274_5d936f9d82.jpg Hooking it up to test the lights. The yellow/white wire hanging over the rail there comes from the starter button and is going to be plugged into the relay once I've got everything in place. http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2775/4333032187_112ff175da.jpg Battery is going to go in a box behind the engine and under the swingarm. The electric system here basically works. I'm getting power to the head and tail lights, starter button, ignitor box, and coil. My starter, ignitior box, and battery are working (tested them in Verslagen's savage) but I'm not getting enough juice through my starter. Likely a combination of the main cables being too small to carry the current and having too much resistance in the engine from not being properly lubed yet. |
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Title: Re: my bobber project Post by Bobbert on 02/17/10 at 18:40:08 It's up and running! http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4034/4357932743_92454eaf0d.jpg http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4051/4357961755_b27c834e63.jpg http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4034/4357962637_e96f713f67.jpg http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4057/4357938579_c25ab75b68.jpg |
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Title: Re: my bobber project Post by supernes550 on 02/19/10 at 16:29:08 looks good. we should set up a socal ls650 meet up when your bike is done. |
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Title: Re: my bobber project Post by verslagen1 on 02/19/10 at 20:34:08 y'all invited... http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1266219779 |
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Title: Re: my bobber project Post by Savage_Amusement on 10/03/10 at 08:15:21 Great progress on the bike, I lost this thread in time some how. |
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Title: Re: my bobber project Post by Bobbert on 12/19/10 at 19:06:36 Update 12/19/10 Bike Needed a major cleanup. The aluminum engine oxidized, the paint chipped, and the exhaust never got fixed. Got a new tank, getting new clutch/throttle cables, handgrips, footpegs, rear plate mount, fender mounts, rear tire. time lapse video of the work I've done: http://www.facebook.com/v/1524199142330 http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs355.ash2/63545_1523015512740_1155150064_31397505_5517588_n.jpg http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs1166.snc4/150890_1523798732320_1155150064_31399011_2276020_n.jpg |
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Title: Re: my bobber project Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/19/10 at 23:55:32 Time lapse? Seriously? Dude, that looks like me on a day when Im feelin kinda puny... Thats was cool, man. How many days are on that video? When I was a young teen, Johnny Carson had a new studio built. He had a time lapse done of it. Every day, there was this one guy, sat in the same place & read his paper at lunch.. Man, those guys are FAST.. |
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Title: Re: my bobber project Post by PerrydaSavage on 12/20/10 at 00:51:27 Your Bike is lookin' SWEET!! Enjoying the technical updates and lookin' forward to seein' finished product! Well done! 8-) |
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Title: Re: my bobber project Post by stinger on 12/20/10 at 03:17:29 yes, next time use aircraft stripper to remove the coating on the cases. takes just a couple of coats and almost all will come off. use a soft sanding pad to remove the rest and take out any blemishes. You can then polish the casing on a buffing wheel and make the casings look like chrome. Pretty simple and fast |
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Title: Re: my bobber project Post by Bobbert on 12/21/10 at 11:11:49 657A7C7B6661506050687A763D0F0 wrote:
I started the saturday before Thanksgiving. After I sped it up I cut out a lot of the footage. Total time would be running around an hour and a half and that's at 8x speed. I love watching those time lapse wide shots that make people look like ants. Gives you a funny perspective on people. 686F72757C7E691B0 wrote:
I made this mistake the first time in February. Thankfully this time I only had to get rid of the oxidization. There's still a ton of the clear coat and grime stuck in the fins which I would love to blast with aircraft stripper but I hear that it eats bare aluminum for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. I think I'm gonna attach my brass brush to a sawzall blade and go at the nooks and crannies. :D |
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Title: Re: my bobber project Post by sluggo on 12/21/10 at 23:37:43 i just had to add my bobber, took several hrs of work, many hours of just staring at thumper looking for my "david" cost? i made money on the deal selling the old parts. http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j257/dsluggo/IMG_3735.jpg |
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Title: Re: my bobber project Post by Bobbert on 12/22/10 at 11:16:28 68776E7C7C741B0 wrote:
I must admit that your bike was the original inspiration for my project. You proved it could be done and done well! Now I just have to 1-up you 8-) |
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