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Message started by LazyLemming on 12/03/09 at 01:13:51

Title: Cold Weather Battery Issues
Post by LazyLemming on 12/03/09 at 01:13:51

Hey folks.

I've begun to find that when my 98' savage has been sitting after a cold night (About 45F), it refuses to start in the morning. It'll crank until the battery runs dry but will not start. If I jump it off of my truck battery, it starts instantly, and will start up flawlessly on it's own until it's sat in the cold for a few hours. On warmer mornings, or in the afternoon when it's warmer I have no starting issues at all.

This all tells me that my battery simply isn't cranking enough amps to the starter. My questions are, am I correct in my assumption I just need more juice out of the battery? Is this a normal problem for the stock Savage battery and I should thus get a larger amp aftermarket battery? Or is it just my bike, and probably a battery going bad? Oh, and any particular replacement battery recommended?

Thanks folks.

Title: Re: Cold Weather Battery Issues
Post by Routy on 12/03/09 at 04:42:52

The stock battery should start it on a 30 degree morning, only if the battery is in good condition,...meaning that after 48 hrs of no activity, it has a standing voltage of at least 12.5, and 12.6-7 would be preferred.
Also if you could check to see what the voltage is holding under starting load, could tell you a lot too. I'm not sure what it should hold, but seems like 10.5 is a common loaded voltage for most starting batteries.

After 48 hrs, my battery stands at 12.36, and it gives me trouble starting on colder mornings also. I will replace it in the spring.

If possible, keeping a maintainer/float charger on it should help.

Title: Re: Cold Weather Battery Issues
Post by bill67 on 12/03/09 at 05:44:18

Be sure the battery has water in it and charge it on a regular charger at 2 amps over night.

Title: Re: Cold Weather Battery Issues
Post by LazyLemming on 12/03/09 at 08:09:08

797277772D2C1B0 wrote:

Be sure the battery has water in it and charge it on a regular charger at 2 amps over night.

I've tried that one, to no avail.

Letting her sit for 48 hours is kind of hard for me at the moment, as she's my only source of transport currently. But I'll check the voltage in the morning, since overnight is usually long enough to give me the issue. It's an old battery, she was garaged for years before I got her, so it probably does need replacing. Any particular recommendations for a replacement?

Title: Re: Cold Weather Battery Issues
Post by babyhog on 12/03/09 at 10:01:59

I bought a Big Crank not long ago, and its pretty popular here.

http://www.bigcrank.com/suzuki-l650-savage-all-battery/ETX-15L.html

Comes to you ready to install, no filling, no charging needed...

Others will chime in with other options too.

Title: Re: Cold Weather Battery Issues
Post by bill67 on 12/03/09 at 10:09:21

Are the plus and minus the right way on that battery.

Title: Re: Cold Weather Battery Issues
Post by babyhog on 12/03/09 at 11:33:58

7A7174742E2F180 wrote:

Are the plus and minus the right way on that battery.

Mine? Yes sir!

Title: Re: Cold Weather Battery Issues
Post by bill67 on 12/03/09 at 11:50:25

Thank you thats what I will buy when I need one.

Title: Re: Cold Weather Battery Issues
Post by babyhog on 12/03/09 at 12:33:24

303B3E3E6465520 wrote:

Thank you thats what I will buy when I need one.

So far, so good with it. I'm gonna try to start her tonight. It hasn't been started in a week or so and I don't have it on a tender yet. Startin to get quite chilly here! Brrr

**This is the sealed, maintenance-free, AGM battery, which (I think its justin who pointed out) also means you can't maintain it... you can't add water to it. But it was as inexpensive as anything else I found, and I prefer maintenance-free... Plus, I love the name!

Title: Re: Cold Weather Battery Issues
Post by Routy on 12/03/09 at 13:38:39

The only reason AGMs haven't completely taken over the market is their still expensive in most cases, about double price when it comes to RV/Marine deep cycle. $59 not bad I guess, but a stock replacement can be found for $29-39 I believe. But the AGMs are known to last more than twice as long too.

Title: Re: Cold Weather Battery Issues
Post by LazyLemming on 12/04/09 at 07:50:31

My battery read 12.46v, which dropped to 11.6 when I turned the key to on. Would not start this morning.

Gonna order a replacement battery come payday, hopefully that solves the issue.

Title: Re: Cold Weather Battery Issues
Post by Charon on 12/04/09 at 08:03:57

Cold weather does a few things, most of them bad, as far as starting engines. One, the engine is harder to turn because the oil is "thicker," so more power is required. Two, the battery is a chemical system, and chemistry is "slower" in cold weather so the battery's output power is lower. And three, gasoline does not vaporize as easily in cold weather. The combination is why weak batteries usually make themselves obvious come the first cold spell.

Title: Re: Cold Weather Battery Issues
Post by Routy on 12/04/09 at 18:59:08

That seems like an abnormal voltage drop from just the headlight. I can about imagine the drop when you hit the starter. And its probably not cranking very fast either. Weak batteries sure will show up in the colder weather. I was going to check mine under a cranking load today, but I got sidetracked :o

517C67645178707074737A1D0 wrote:

My battery read 12.46v, which dropped to 11.6 when I turned the key to on. Would not start this morning.

Gonna order a replacement battery come payday, hopefully that solves the issue.

Title: Re: Cold Weather Battery Issues
Post by John_D on 12/04/09 at 19:17:30

I'm not much on electrical mumbo-jumbo, so someone correct me if I'm wrong. I believe someone on here once mentioned that if you're battery's starting to go, you may well have enough power to turn it over fine, but not enough to actually spark it off. I can only imagine that the cold weather makes this even worse.

Irrelevant sidenote: I'm actually sitting here at work doing this; automated testing machines requiring little supervision rock! :D ;D

Title: Re: Cold Weather Battery Issues
Post by Routy on 12/05/09 at 06:47:20

Only if its battery ignition, but I don't think these bikes are, in fact I don't think much of any non automotive is batt fired ignition anymore. So if its cranking fine, a weak battery shouldn't lessen spark,....but correct me if I'm wrong.

2631303A31373F6366656466540 wrote:

Title: Re: Cold Weather Battery Issues
Post by verslagen1 on 12/05/09 at 07:55:59

When it's dam cold, the wt. of your oil will be it's minimum spec. 5, 10 or 15 for the 3 oils I've used.
Crank fired? batt fired? The savage doesn't have a magnito, it has a generator. And until it has sufficient rpm it's running off the battery.
The ignition is voltage sensitive, if you run the battery down or have a bad cell, it will crank but not fire.

Title: Re: Cold Weather Battery Issues
Post by Charon on 12/05/09 at 08:28:03

With few exceptions, if the motorcycle has any sort of electronic ignition, the ignition is powered by the battery. Once the engine starts and comes up to speed, the alternator/generator will raise the system voltage to above battery level so as to charge the battery. I'm not too sure, but I suspect if the battery voltage is low enough so as not to fire the ignition, push starting probably won't work either. If the battery is marginal, that is its output is sufficient to fire the ignition but drops too low under starter load, a push start might work.

Title: Re: Cold Weather Battery Issues
Post by ero4444 on 12/05/09 at 08:31:27

>> So if its cranking fine, a weak battery shouldn't lessen spark

I posted about my starting issues a while back, where the crank rate sounded fine, and choke/no-choke didn't help, but push-start did work and it ran fine. So the only cause I could see is low battery performance.

After I installed the Big Crank AGM battery, then I have had NO problems with starting and crank rate sounds the same. That is how the issue resolved for me.

Title: Re: Cold Weather Battery Issues
Post by Routy on 12/05/09 at 09:03:13

Title: Re: Cold Weather Battery Issues
Post by verslagen1 on 12/05/09 at 09:33:57

39362C372B2D3E3C343A2D5F0 wrote:

Thanks,...and good to know.

There are many engines,.....like most all utility/garden equipment engines are electronic mag fired ignitions that will run w/o a battery, and the only way to shut them off is grounding the magnito.

[quote author=564552534C4147454E11200 link=1259831632/15#15 date=1260028559]When it's dam cold, the wt. of your oil will be it's minimum spec. 5, 10 or 15 for the 3 oils I've used.
Crank fired? batt fired? The savage doesn't have a magnito, it has a generator. And until it has sufficient rpm it's running off the battery.
The ignition is voltage sensitive, if you run the battery down or have a bad cell, it will crank but not fire.

[/quote]
next time you're poking around your lawn mower... don't call me.

Title: Re: Cold Weather Battery Issues
Post by photojoe on 01/16/10 at 11:04:32

I went down to start my bike for the first time since a couple of weeks before the blizzard a month ago. It's been sitting for probably 6 weeks in freezing temps and blizzard.

I went down with portable jump pack in hand, thinking that there was no way this bike was going to start. Took 2-3 tries (about 15 cranks) and low and behold, she fired up with the Big Crank I bought in 2008. Yeah, get the big crank or another maintenance free battery. So much convenience for a few dollars more.

Title: Re: Cold Weather Battery Issues
Post by Oldfeller on 01/17/10 at 04:02:04

Consider yourself possibly reconsidered.

Assume a very marginal battery (just barely holding a charge).

With decomp solenoid actuated you have a drain on voltage. With starter motor engaged you have some sluggish engine spin, with another big drain on battery voltage/amperage. If volts drop to the nine volt range your black box won't fire the spark right and she won't start. Of course your cranking action stops pretty quick like too, but that goes along with the this "marginal battery" territory.

This is not unique to the Savage -- almost any black box equipped bike that has a starter motor and no kick starter will show this syndrome if the battery is just barely there.

============

Battery float chargers are a good thing -- go get you one. Harbor Freight will sell you one for less than $5 (on sale most times).

Remember, a float charger is intended to maintain the full good charge on a freshly charged battery, not bring one back up from a totally discharged state. Float charges sometimes lack the ass to bring totally flat plates back up to a full charge state all by themselves -- this is known to be true about the little Harbor Freight unit.

People have killed batteries with float chargers when they forget this one little trick -- always start out with a fully charged battery !!

Title: Re: Cold Weather Battery Issues
Post by Skid Mark on 01/17/10 at 13:40:10

Its been a couple months thru some -30c weather. Its -3c today. Went out and fired the Wee Beastie up. It took 6 or 7 hits till it fired. Then 5 minutes of holding the idle high with the throttle to keep it running. One it was warmed up ran like a charm till I shut it down. I'll be trying to do this more often to keep the oil circulated and the battery charged. Also I put the petcock off of the run setting. This ensures the carb is getting a good initial flow of gas as it would be bone dry from sitting so long. I'm going back out to the garage now to ensure I put the petcock back to the run setting. Very satisfing to see the bike is running well. :)