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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> K & N /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1259351028 Message started by Oldnewguy on 11/27/09 at 11:43:47 |
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Title: K & N Post by Oldnewguy on 11/27/09 at 11:43:47 I know that this has been beat to death, but I can't find the info on the K&N air filter in the tech section or by using a search. A little help please! :-[ |
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Title: Re: K & N Post by Gort on 11/27/09 at 11:49:45 Here is a test of K&N as well as other air filters, using very sophisticated testing equipment under exacting conditions: http://duramax-diesel.com/spicer/index.htm |
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Title: Re: K & N Post by LostArtist on 11/27/09 at 11:53:20 okay, what does any of that mean??? |
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Title: Re: K & N Post by Gort on 11/27/09 at 11:56:15 You couldn't have read it that fast! Read it over carefully. Here is the original thread in which I posted that test: http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1245172228 |
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Title: Re: K & N Post by LostArtist on 11/27/09 at 12:10:17 okay, what does that mean for the suzuki savage/S40? is there a better filter for our bikes besides the stock one or the K&N one? |
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Title: Re: K & N Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/27/09 at 12:33:03 Yes, look closely at Old Fellers homebuilt & how he treats it before use. Id love to see his filter tested against all comers. |
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Title: Re: K & N Post by Gort on 11/27/09 at 12:41:10 The test link I posted shows that nothing filters air better than a 'paper' element filter, however this kind of filter is more restrictive. Your Savage in its factory STOCK configuration was designed to operate efficiently with its stock filter, while providing the best possible filtration. Many members who have changed to larger jets in their carburetor and less restrictive exhaust systems, have found the stock filter too restrictive and have opted for freer flowing, non paper units. I also have made these mods and bought a cotton mesh cone shaped filter which gets oiled and cleaned periodically. The problem is that some contaminants will pass through filters without being caught, and you won't be able to see them because they've been sucked into the combustion chamber. This is why sophisticated test equipment is required. I know my cone filter cannot filter air as well as a paper unit, but I don't care because I like the increase in intake noise. |
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Title: Re: K & N Post by Rocco on 11/27/09 at 12:49:04 all i know, is after the sporty muff, rejet and k&n.....she whoops up on alot of bigger bikes! it doesn't even feel like the same bike anymore honestly, go with the k&n. i've heard they are pretty much bulletproof....that'll match our engines =] |
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Title: Re: K & N Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/27/09 at 13:28:19 Or save the $$$, build your own. Besides, if you dont like it, you can run it when your K&N is drying. |
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Title: Re: K & N Post by pigthumper on 11/27/09 at 14:23:04 The savage I just bought has alot more pickup than the one I used to have. Don't know if it has been re jetted but has the cone K&N and a Screaming Eagle exhaust. To 65 mph this thing moves. |
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Title: Re: K & N Post by Oldnewguy on 11/27/09 at 14:25:47 You guys are still beating that horse to death. Gort I read that test last month on a similiar thread. I just need a part number for a '96 or some info to look it up. ;D |
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Title: Re: K & N Post by Gort on 11/27/09 at 14:51:00 Well then! Your first post didn't ask for that. Thought you were looking for info about the filter. Probably would be better if you started a new post asking for the cone style K&N air filter that some members found that would fit the Savage. The drop in replacement K&N for your Savage can be seen in the link at the bottom of this post. Also remember to use their filter oil. The warranty is void if you don't, because without it, airborne petroleum contaminants will adhere to the un-protected gauze and you won't be able to wash them out unless you use a solvent, which will ruin the filter's element. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/K-N-AIR-FILTER-SU-6595-SUZUKI-SAVAGE-BOULEVARD_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem3ca7443cefQQitemZ260504304879QQptZMotorcyclesQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories |
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Title: Re: K & N Post by Oldnewguy on 11/27/09 at 15:25:25 Hey Gort, Sorry if I upset you. My comment was supposed to be funny. Thanks for the suggestions. :) Oldnewguy |
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Title: Re: K & N Post by Gort on 11/27/09 at 16:37:39 7F687968687A2C180 wrote:
No not at all! I also was trying to be funny. Thats the problem with the Internet...you can't see the person's face or here their voice to know their attitude. And, I am ashamed to admit, I still haven't figured out how to use the smiley faces provided on this site, because I am mostly computer ignorant. |
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Title: Re: K & N Post by LANCER on 11/28/09 at 05:12:44 Link to "4Filters" web site http://www.4filters.com/KN-Round-Tapered_c_15-1.html The round cone shape models that fit a stock carb RC-1250 2.25 in (57 mm) 3.5 in (89 mm) 2 in (51 mm) 4 in (102 mm) Metal 0.625 in (16 mm) 0 degrees 0 in (0 mm) RC-1252 2.25 in (57 mm) 3.5 in (89 mm) 2 in (51 mm) 4 in (102 mm) Metal 0.625 in (16 mm) 0 degrees 0 in (0 mm) RC-1253 2.25 in (57 mm) 3.5 in (89 mm) 2 in (51 mm) 4 in (102 mm) Metal 0.625 in (16 mm) 0 degrees 0 in (0 mm) R-1260 2.25 in (57 mm) 3.5 in (89 mm) 2 in (51 mm) 4 in (102 mm) Rubber 0.625 in (16 mm) 0 degrees 0 in (0 mm) RU-3560 2.25 in (57 mm) 5.125 in (130 mm) 4.625 in (117 mm) 6 in (152 mm) Rubber 0.625 in (16 mm) 0 degrees 0 in (0 mm) Home > Misc K&N Products K&N RC-1250 Universal Chrome Filter "2-1/4""FLG, 3-1/2""B, 2""T, 4""H" http://www.4filters.com/assets/images/parts/kn/rc-1250-b.jpg Price Retail Price: $48.33 Your Savings: $13.77 Your Price: $34.56 Pretty good deal I think ! http://www.4filters.com/assets/images/parts/kn/r-1260-b.jpg K&N R-1260 Universal Rubber Filter "2-1/4""FLG, 3-1/2""B, 2""T, 4""H" Price: Retail Price: $41.76 Your Savings: $11.90 Your Price: $29.86 Even better price |
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Title: Re: K & N Post by mumbles on 11/28/09 at 06:42:14 Lancer, there's a $8.99 shipping on those filters unless the total price is over $75.00. This guy has them at the same price with free shipping... http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/K-N-UNIVERSAL-AIR-FILTER-RC-1250-TAPERED-CHROME_W0QQitemZ230400705076QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotorcycles_Parts_Accessories?hash=item35a4f3c234 |
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Title: Re: K & N Post by Oldnewguy on 11/28/09 at 07:32:33 Thanks Lancer. I'll get back to U. I still need to go over Gorts test results one more time. Gort, I think all you have to do for the smilies is put your cursor where you want one and then click on the one you want. They will not show up on a preview, only on the actual post. :) |
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Title: Re: K & N Post by Oldnewguy on 11/28/09 at 10:35:08 Thanks Lancer. That's what I was looking for. I assume that with these, you get rid of the air box, but do you just cap off the head breather pipe? Gort, I think that all you have to do for the smilys is set your cursor at the point that you want the thing and then clik on the one you want. The smiley will not appear on a preview. Only on a post. |
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Title: Re: K & N Post by Gort on 11/28/09 at 10:44:48 If I may respond to your question, you don't want to block off the breather tube. Its a puffer, and needs to vent. Some members position it higher than the cylinder head, some lower. Positioning it lower can cause it to drip oil after enough fumes accumulate in it, as mine does. But its a tiny drop from time to time and I don't care because it was so much easier for me to mount it where I did. I got the stainless mesh breather filter from AutoZone, cheap, and as you can see used a brass adapter to adapt the factory hose to the mouth of the breather. In the distance you can see my cone air filter on the carb. http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk80/tlukatch/OILBREATHER.jpg |
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Title: Re: K & N Post by Oldnewguy on 11/28/09 at 11:53:41 Gort, I read all of the exchange between you and Boule'tard back in June and also read the test report, sort of. Now my question. Is the K&N cone the way to go? I noticed that yours looks a little different. I am not even sure that OEM isn't the best. What's your take? :-/ PS. I also read Old Fella's thread on building the oil filter. |
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Title: Re: K & N Post by Gort on 11/28/09 at 13:12:01 Since the test link I provided, and others which were not as thorough, all say that K&N lets in more contaminants than a paper filter, its my opinion that the stock filter does a better job. Just because a filter looks like it caught dirt, doesn't mean it caught all the contaminants. 'Dirt' can pass through a filter and into your engine, because that type filter is unable to catch all the contaminant particles. You simply won't be able to determine how much got past the filter unless you have sophisticated test equipment. Having said that, now we come to the problem of a modified engine. From my and other members' experience with the Savage, a more freer flowing filter is needed if you install larger jets and a muffler with less back pressure. You won't get that with the stock paper filter configuration. So what do you do? K&N is freer flowing, as are its clones, and they all fit without you having to fabricate anything. I bought a cheap clone. Since the K&N is going to let more dirt in anyway, and since the clone also uses cotton gauze like the K&N, and since I use the correct filter oil on it and clean it regularly I suspect the difference may not be too much, if at all, between the clone and the K&N. So you have to decide what you want. For me with my use of the Savage as a form of amusement, I'm not really worried about it lasting 50,000 miles. I'll never put that many miles on it. So because I got tired of all the backfiring due to the lean burn emission design of the engine, I re-jetted and installed a Harley Dyna muffler, which then required a freer flowing air filter. If I get less engine life due to the filter allowing more dirt into the engine, I really don't care. It will last far longer than I will ever use it. But if I was relying on the bike as my only transportation and wanted to get maximum life from the engine, I would have left the stock filter on and not made the other mods. Some people make the mods because they want more power. I find the bike has enough power for me in its stock form. I've ridden much faster bikes and high speed automobiles, and done all the burn outs and breakneck accelerations, and driven 2 cars 150mph on the freeways, and for me, that thrill gets old. Its a matter of personal choice. Hope I answered your question. |
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Title: Re: K & N Post by Oldnewguy on 11/28/09 at 13:43:10 You did and I thank you. A lot to think about. |
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Title: Re: K & N Post by kevinphan on 12/07/09 at 17:42:57 Found a cheaper alternative to the other pods on the market: http://www.mikesxs.net/products-4.html?category_id=4.7 scroll about 3/4 of the way down and you'll reach the 57mm. XS Performance Pod Filter-only 16$ so not bad. |
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Title: Re: K & N Post by Oldnewguy on 12/08/09 at 03:33:30 That's a great site for other stuff also. Thanks! |
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Title: Re: K & N Post by Routy on 12/08/09 at 06:08:52 I never did play w/ air filters much, except when we use to race go carts, and then the difference tween any filter, and no filter was amazing. And in the 80s when chev had a 4 barrel Q-jet sucking 4 barrels of air thru a 1 1/4" snorkel air cleaner, it gave a big problem on WOT pulling 6% Donner pass w/ a heavy camper towing my boat to Tahoe. It would suck oil up from the valve cover, and sop the paper filter. But cutting the snorkle off fixed that. Thinking about it, this wasn't a filter restriction problem, so I don't know why I included it here :-/ What I don't understand is why we worry about these bikes, that might have a slight filter restriction (nothing proven that I see). Because if it really does have a restriction, it would only be occuring at WOT. So if its a little restricted at full throttle, what do we suppose the restriction is at less than 1/2 throttle (65mph?),....or even 3/4 throttle ? If you think there is any restriction at 1/2 throttle, what do you think would happen at WOT ? I would sure think it would be running very very rich even before changing to larger jets. I detect no signs of running rich at WOT. All this pertaining to us stockers, w/ maybe a lo sp carb mod, and/or muffler change,......not intended for any mod to the air intake system, such as cam and headwork, or those who just like to customize stuff anyway. |
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Title: Re: K & N Post by EJID on 12/08/09 at 07:15:05 67697A65627C646D620C0 wrote:
This does look like a great site for other items as well. Does anyone know if the electronic tach (part #03-0675) would work with our bikes? http://www.mikesxs.net/parts/img250/03-0675.jpg I checked the tach thread on the tech section of this forum (http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1221683647)and don't see a possible cross-reference. Anybody know more about this tach? |
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Title: Re: K & N Post by mumbles on 12/08/09 at 07:26:35 6E5D5B475A5D2F0 wrote:
Gort, since we're in the subject of freer flowing exhaust and air filter what carb jets did you get the best performance out of? |
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Title: Re: K & N Post by Gort on 12/08/09 at 08:40:47 Honestly its been so long that I don't remember the size anymore but get in touch with Lancer. He sells exactly what you need and can answer your question better than me. |
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Title: Re: K & N Post by Oldnewguy on 12/08/09 at 09:43:51 Ther is an excellent guide that Diamond Jim put together back on 06-05-09. I found it in the tech section. Its called "carb jetting - a progressive guide". I don't think that you can go wrong with this info although I have not tried it yet. I will be in a day or so. I just got my jet kit from Lancer today. :) |
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Title: Re: K & N Post by Boule’tard on 12/08/09 at 09:45:24 3D3228332F293A38303E295B0 wrote:
There is some degree of drag in all airboxes, filters and exhaust systems at all engine speeds. Aerodynamic drag is proven and easy to measure in a lab.. there is nothing left to prove, except that the drag is significant and detrimental to the performance of our bikes. You are right in thinking that the drag is most pronounced at WOT (and maximum RPM) and goes unnoticed at most common engine speeds, but the drag is not like a switch that kicks in at some point. There is some restriction at idle, more at 1/2 engine speed, and most at redline. It is less of a switch and more of a nonlinear "ramping up" of drag. The restriction does not increase 1:1 with RPM. It increases with the square of RPM.. if RPM (and the resulting intake/exhaust velocity) doubles, the drag caused by all the intake obstacles and exhaust bends, baffles, etc will quadruple. That's why we don't notice much restriction at the speeds we usually ride at.. you have to really wind the engine out to notice a gain in power from one of those pod filters, open pipes, ported head, stuff like that.. and even those measures have to be balanced by richer jetting or you'll lose power due to the mixture being too lean. Edit: Man, that mini-pod Gort has on the crankcase breather is slick.. I'm doing that too if I ever eliminate the airbox. |
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Title: Re: K & N Post by Oldnewguy on 12/08/09 at 09:52:50 Right now that Diamond Jim chart is hiding at the bottom of page 4 of the tech section. It is not listed in the Table of Contents. :) |
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Title: Re: K & N Post by mumbles on 12/08/09 at 17:03:17 392E3F2E2E3C6A5E0 wrote:
Thanks, here it is. http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1244217127 Gonna have to study it now. ;) |
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Title: Re: K & N Post by kevinphan on 12/15/09 at 11:27:35 Anybody wondering about that cheap alternative I posted up here are some pics of the pod, it's a tapered style pod. http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l113/kevin_phan/D70s/D70/Photoon2009-12-15at14213.jpg http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l113/kevin_phan/D70s/D70/Photoon2009-12-15at1421.jpg http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l113/kevin_phan/D70s/D70/Photoon2009-12-15at1422.jpg Don't know how well it works since I don't have my bike currently. :P |
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Title: Re: K & N Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/15/09 at 12:51:28 I see pics like this & wonder how many states this guy is wanted in. |
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