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Message started by BuckHMCC on 11/16/09 at 16:52:19

Title: New old bike - Advice on rebuilding clutch
Post by BuckHMCC on 11/16/09 at 16:52:19

Hello, I am new to this forum. I recently purchased a 1996 Savage as a beginner bike for my adult daughter.

Maintenance history is mostly unknown or suspect. After putting 300 miles on it in the past week it now has 11,800 miles.

I've done a front brake bleed and caliper cleaning, automatic decompressor adjustment, valve adjustment, oil change (Mobil 1 4T full synthetic motorcycle specific oil 10W40), and drive belt adjustment (too tight). A new oil and air filter are on the way. I've checked the tightness of the fasteners (the ones not requiring head or case removal). The tires have a lot of tread and are not cracked or rotted, but are old (10 years!) so they're on the list.

An issue that was not apparent to me on the necessarily brief test ride (no plates) is that the clutch is slipping under hard acceleration in gears 3, 4, and 5. I've downloaded the (free!) Clymer's service manual (1984-05) and studied the clutch section (chapter 5). The only part that is giving me pause is removing and reinstalling the clutch nut. Clymers call for a special tool (Honda clutch center holder tool, 07923-4280000). I understand the tool is expensive and I am hoping for an alternative or the possibility of renting the tool from someone here.

I looked on this forum for postings about clutch replacement, but did not find anything useful (the valve adjusting and automatic decompressor posts were wonderful! Thank you!) May I ask for your wisdom on the topic?

Title: Re: New old bike - Advice on rebuilding clutch
Post by bill67 on 11/16/09 at 17:10:18

Was it slipping before you changed the oil.

Title: Re: New old bike - Advice on rebuilding clutch
Post by verslagen1 on 11/16/09 at 17:29:17

Clutch tools not required. You may have to jiggle it abit but not hard to do. Just check operation when you get the cover on. a few bolts around the clutch should be enough.

But 1st, check that you have enough free play on the lever 1/8" minimum, more is better. And check with the bars turned to either side too in case the cable binds.

Next before you pop off the cover, check the lever position. There are 2 marks on the case behind the lever. read up on it and check operation.

Title: Re: New old bike - Advice on rebuilding clutch
Post by mjbgman on 11/16/09 at 19:47:12

272C29297372450 wrote:

Was it slipping before you changed the oil.

Curious, why did you ask that? :-?

Title: Re: New old bike - Advice on rebuilding clutch
Post by serenity3743 on 11/17/09 at 05:12:32

The clutches on these things seldom fail or wear out, which is why you didn't find much info about them. The wrong oil can cause this "wet clutch" to slip; that's what Bill67 was getting at. In addition to checking the free play at the clutch lever, and the reference marks on the case, there is one more variable you can try: The small push rod inside the case comes in three different lengths to accommodate for wear. Good luck!

Title: Re: New old bike - Advice on rebuilding clutch
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/17/09 at 06:49:10

54425542494E535E14101314270 wrote:

The 2 marks are there to show where the "paddle" that actuates the clutch comes into contact with the rod. As long as there is slack in the lever, the clutch pack springs are fully loading the clutch. That only impacts how hard the lever is to pull. Keeping the paddle at the best angle for mechanical efficiency is important because IF the wrong rod is in there, the paddle may break off, but wont make it slip.

Title: Re: New old bike - Advice on rebuilding clutch
Post by BuckHMCC on 11/17/09 at 07:14:05

Yes, it was slipping in the same manner before I changed the oil to Mobil 1 4T full synthetic oil. The previous owner said her maintenance was done by a boy friend who maintains their Suzuki V-twins. She said the oil was changed this past spring (no more than 1000 miles on the oil). I suspect the boy friend used the right (non-energy conserving) oil, but perhaps some other previous owner did not.

The drained oil was dirty and perhaps contaminated with clutch material. It was not as clean looking as the oil is when I change it on my Bandit 1200 after 4000 miles.

The clutch cable has about 1/4" free play at its lever. The clutch cable is not binding at any positioning of the handlebars.

The centerline of the clutch actuation lever on the right crankcase cover is centered between the two mark lines cast on the case. Most of the adjustment available on the mount just above the actuation arm has been taken up.

It seems I should try a longer length push rod acting on the clutch basket. Ron Ayers (www.ronayers.com OEM microfiched) shows three push rods for this model
22-1 23111-24B00-445 ROD,CLUTCH PUSH
22-2 23111-24B00-455 ROD,CLUTCH PUSH
22-3 23111-24B00-465 ROD,CLUTCH PUSH

So I'll remove the right crankcase cover and see if I can go to a longer (right?) push rod length. This will also allow me to inspect the cam chain tensioner plunger length (which should be < 18 mm, right?).

Title: Re: New old bike - Advice on rebuilding clutch
Post by verslagen1 on 11/17/09 at 08:10:42

You got a good grasp on the info. I think we'll keep you.

Title: Re: New old bike - Advice on rebuilding clutch
Post by franch on 11/17/09 at 09:05:36

wow, i never knew about the 3 different rod lengths !
while you are in there you may want to add washers behind the springs. it acts like a "stiffer" spring. look in our tech section.

Title: Re: New old bike - Advice on rebuilding clutch
Post by Charon on 11/17/09 at 09:22:43

Nobody wants to hear it, but the Clymer manual is not "free." It is copyrighted, and if it is on this site - or any other - it is pirated.

Title: Re: New old bike - Advice on rebuilding clutch
Post by BuckHMCC on 11/18/09 at 14:42:12

I did not find the Clymer's service manual download on this site, but here: http://www.myacrobatpdf.com/2122/suzuki-ls-650-savage-86-a-04---service-manual-clymerpdf---the-.html This was the first result returned when i googled 'Clymer's suzuki savage service manual'.

In my ignorance I presumed that this manual for the 86-04 models was out of print and was offered to this myacrobatpdf.com site by Clymer's as a public service. This may not be true. I submitted a query to the myacrobatpdf.com people asking about the legality of this download and have received no reply.

I did find that Amazon is offering a 86-07 models manual. I ordered one of these, but it is backordered and will not be available until after Dec. 25. At any rate, my conscience is now clear.

As for the my clutch problem, on further thought I doubt that the slipping is due to the push rod length. I can see how a longer push rod might correct incomplete disengagement of the clutch, but I don't see how it would affect slipping when the cable has free play when the clutch is engaged.

I think it's the clutch springs that have gone weak after 13 years or the plates are contaminated by energy-conserving oil/warped by an previous owner unskilled with a clutch/otherwise screwed up.

I'll start by measuring the springs and seeing if they're within the service limits.

If not, I'll install new springs and give that a go.

If that doesn't work, I'll drain the Mobil 1 full syn and try a good dino diesel oil like Rotella 15W40 which has a long track record in wet clutches. Diesel oils are high in detergency and may clean up the plates.

If that doesn't work, then I'll go to the clutch plates.

I see that EBC offers springs that are 10% stiffer than OEMs. Anyone have any experience with these?

Title: Re: New old bike - Advice on rebuilding clutch
Post by T Mack 1 - FSO on 11/18/09 at 18:36:56

Before you rip it apart, adjust the clutch to start to grab when the lever is at 3/4" to 1" away from the hand grip. If you have it so it starts to grab any farther out, the clutch will slip, most noticible in top gear when you jump on it.

First adjust at the fine adjustment at the hand control. It that is not enough, then adjust the coarse at the tranny.

I noticed that the range of clutch action on this bike is pretty big. Starts to grab early and full clamped almost all the way out.