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General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> 12-1/2" Progressive + SuperTrapp is a no-go!
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Message started by Rockin_John on 11/11/09 at 14:34:57

Title: 12-1/2" Progressive + SuperTrapp is a no-go!
Post by Rockin_John on 11/11/09 at 14:34:57

The problem will be obvious to some folks:

http://catoosatrading.com/images/cycles/progressive_supertrap.jpg

But for those whom the picture doesn't explain it: the shock is too long, and the rear axle bolt will hit on the muffler constantly if I were to force installation of the taller shock!

So... Since we should all know by now that: You can't always have what you want...

It seems I have several options:

1. Cut a few inches out of my header and attempt to gas weld (braze) it back together into a length that will allow the shorter exhaust system to clear the longer shock. (Hot, sooty exhaust may come out on something /somewhere I don't want it).

2. Take the decent sounding short Dyna/Sporty muffler off my chopper and put it on the road bike. As the Supertrapp is just too long and ugly to put on the chopper: I'd then have and excuse to put the embarrassingly super LOUD turnout muffler on the Chopper. :D

But the Supertrapp has got to go on one of the three bikes; because though it is ugly, it is the coolest sounding, not obscene loud, muffler I've heard!

Decisions, decisions... Sometimes I hate having too many options! ::)

Title: Re: 12-1/2" Progressive + SuperTrapp is a no-go!
Post by Serowbot on 11/11/09 at 14:48:29

Too bad,....
My 12"s are close, but clear,....

http://p1.bikepics.com/pics/2008%5C08%5C15%5Cbikepics-1386346-full.jpg

Title: Re: 12-1/2" Progressive + SuperTrapp is a no-go!
Post by BurnPgh on 11/11/09 at 15:19:45

could have an angled section added so it clears.

Title: Re: 12-1/2" Progressive + SuperTrapp is a no-go!
Post by bill67 on 11/11/09 at 15:35:09

49747870727544517473751B0 wrote:

You got your axle bolt coming in from the wrong side, spinning around might help.

Title: Re: 12-1/2" Progressive + SuperTrapp is a no-go!
Post by buttgoat1 on 11/11/09 at 15:41:44

should be enough play in the system to shim out from the support bracket to get a little more clearance.

Title: Re: 12-1/2" Progressive + SuperTrapp is a no-
Post by Serowbot on 11/11/09 at 15:50:04

515A5F5F0504330 wrote:

You got your axle bolt coming in from the wrong side, spinning around might help.

Nice catch, Bill.... I never would have noticed that... ;)

Title: Re: 12-1/2" Progressive + SuperTrapp is a no-go!
Post by Rockin_John on 11/11/09 at 16:16:08

Nah.... there's more than an inch of interference (1-1/2" or more) so turning the axle bolt around (I'd already though of that) or just angling the muffler out isn't going to get it. I'd have to angle the muffler out to the side so far it would look kind of silly.

And my idea of taking a few inches out of the header probably isn't going to happen either; because there's only about 1-1/2" of straight pipe down there to remove, and I need it about 3"-4" I'd have to braze the inner and outer header pipes together before putting the manifold tip back on the header. It could get to be a big-ol-mess! :D

I'll figure something out... Or have something to sell soon. ;D

Title: Re: 12-1/2" Progressive + SuperTrapp is a no-go!
Post by Rockin_John on 11/11/09 at 16:46:56

May have found a solution: cut a couple of inches off of the little end of the SuperTrapp and have the muffler shop swag it back out to fit. Hate to go hacking on an expensive exhaust system, but it ain't gonna last forever anyways. And if it throws it out of tune, I can always add or subtract discs on the back of the megaphone.

I still may put the sick loud pipe on the chopper, just to annoy the soccer moms on cell phones. Pull up beside them; and their conversation is OVER! They should be driving instead of talking anyways!

Guns don't kill people: People driving and talking on cell phones do!

Title: Re: 12-1/2" Progressive + SuperTrapp is a no-go!
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/11/09 at 16:49:10

What kind of a problem would it create to limit the downward travel of the swingarm? Or the extension of the shocks? Sure, you'd lose some of that travel, but youd still have the spring rate/damping of the better shocks. Maybe raise the upper mount an inch & build the seat to accommodate & limit the swing arm or shock extension the rest of it?

Bill, nice spot..

HEY.. Heres the DEAL,, turn that axle around & either put an angle on the end of the header to point the TRapp out, or put a Z bend on the header, to "step it out" far enough to clear..

That would be easier, I think..

Title: Re: 12-1/2" Progressive + SuperTrapp is a no-go!
Post by Rockin_John on 11/11/09 at 17:16:27

Some combinations of the aforementioned ideas will almost certainly work. When I first had the idea of turning the axle around; it was from looking over at my 1987:

http://catoosatrading.com/images/cycles/1987_savage_axle.jpg

Notice the nice thin head on it? I thought about using that axle (put in the way it is in the 87) Then I realized that even if I cleared the axle nut; the muffler and swing-arm were going to probably hit.

Cut the SuperTrapp off a few inches, get the muffler shop to make me a slight step over pipe as short as possible and swag it out for the Savage's header. That will probably do it.

All I wanted was some good shocks an inch taller. How come everything which should be easy always has to gets so blasted complicated?

Title: Re: 12-1/2" Progressive + SuperTrapp is a no-go!
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/11/09 at 17:29:38

Can you make it so the "step" is a shallow angle? Or is it important? How do you decide such things? Dont want to cause a restriction, but only got so much room to play with,,

Title: Re: 12-1/2" Progressive + SuperTrapp is a no-go!
Post by Serowbot on 11/11/09 at 17:42:34

Limiting shock travel will destroy the rebound.... No good...

I was just about to ask how big of a mallet you have?... ;D

How much trimming can you do on the pipe/muffler joint?...

Title: Re: 12-1/2" Progressive + SuperTrapp is a no-go!
Post by Rockin_John on 11/11/09 at 18:18:10

4355425F47525F44300 wrote:

Limiting shock travel will destroy the rebound.... No good...

I was just about to ask how big of a mallet you have?... ;D

How much trimming can you do on the pipe/muffler joint?...

Tools? BIG hammer's? I got lots of tools, including hammers. I collect tools, including old farm hand tools. I've got tools people don't even know what they do... I inherited a barn full of them LOL! I have a two man buck-saw hanging in the barn; a scythe big enough to scare the grim reaper. :D

Seriously... there's about 2" that could be hacked off of the straight part of the SuperTrapp.

For now I just put the "road bike" back together with its stock shocks. I've got too many other projects going right now to keep fighting this. It's going to have to wait till later.

I have to put some sod down in my back yard before it becomes a mud pit again! The shocks can wait till the dead of winter, my garage is heated... kinda. ;)

Title: Re: 12-1/2" Progressive + SuperTrapp is a no-
Post by Serowbot on 11/11/09 at 22:46:38

RJ
Quote:

Seriously... there's about 2" that could be hacked off of the straight part of the SuperTrapp.

I'm just sayin'... get what you can there,... and whack the SuperTrapp with a rubber mallet to clear the rest... it would be on the inside where nobody would see...
;D

That's custom!.... :-?

Title: Re: 12-1/2" Progressive + SuperTrapp is a no-go!
Post by verslagen1 on 11/11/09 at 22:59:46

Can't really do that. That nut is about where the disks are. Whack it and the core will never come out.

Title: Re: 12-1/2" Progressive + SuperTrapp is a no-go!
Post by Serowbot on 11/11/09 at 23:02:34

Dangit!,.. Versy!,... I had a whole theory goin' there.... :-?

Title: Re: 12-1/2" Progressive + SuperTrapp is a no-go!
Post by verslagen1 on 11/11/09 at 23:12:22

cut 1 1/2" off header or trapp. you'll clear the nut.

been thinking about it too. even with 11" it's close.
and I have to lean on it to get the nut off w/o rubbing on the trapp.
yeah, I got the nut on the muff side.

Title: Re: 12-1/2" Progressive + SuperTrapp is a no-go!
Post by seviersavage on 11/12/09 at 03:05:37

man I just faced this exact problem. I was gonna trim the supertrapp and then weld. So I take the whole header and exhaust off put on the 12 1/2 inch shocks put the header back on loosely fit the supertrapp on and spin the header out slightly, angle the supertrapp a little and I've got an inch of clearance and no leaks. Plus it still bolts to the bracket correctly.

Point is I found enough wiggle room to make it work.
Sevier

Title: Re: 12-1/2" Progressive + SuperTrapp is a no-
Post by Rockin_John on 11/12/09 at 03:32:31

2221343F32342326383D3D38303C22510 wrote:

And it doesn't look weird? Crooked like a snake or anything?

Guess when I get back around to it, I'll have to try changing the axle bolt and just pushing things around before I get out the cutoff wheel and welding torch!

Thanks for the input of someone who's already traveled this road SeveirSavage! 8-)

Title: Re: 12-1/2" Progressive + SuperTrapp is a no-
Post by Rockin_John on 11/12/09 at 03:51:15

3C2F3839262B2D2F247B4A0 wrote:

Just checked the books, and... Every indication in the Real Suzuki Service manual shows the nut on the rider's right side and the axle bolt being installed from the left (pulley) side. Of course Clymer's shows it installed the other way around, and even tells you to push the axle bolt through from the right side. I think I'd prefer to stick with the way Suzuki builds them if possible. :-X

Title: Re: 12-1/2" Progressive + SuperTrapp is a no-go!
Post by bill67 on 11/12/09 at 03:57:12

Suzuki got mine wrong,I'll have to take it back to dealer and get it right.

Title: Re: 12-1/2" Progressive + SuperTrapp is a no-go!
Post by Rockin_John on 11/12/09 at 04:16:01

666D68683233040 wrote:

Suzuki got mine wrong,I'll have to take it back to dealer and get it right.

You reckon they'll do it for free, or charge you shop rate? ::)

Title: Re: 12-1/2" Progressive + SuperTrapp is a no-go!
Post by bill67 on 11/12/09 at 04:19:41

You know mines right the way it is,Did you get those air forks worked out like I told you.

Title: Re: 12-1/2" Progressive + SuperTrapp is a no-go!
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/12/09 at 08:43:54

As long as there is no clearance issue, I cant imagine it mattering from which side the clamping force is applied, since it is evenly shared on both sides.

Title: Re: 12-1/2" Progressive + SuperTrapp is a no-go!
Post by Serowbot on 11/12/09 at 08:54:36

Wish my axle had a drift hole like that,... the nut on that side is a POS!....

http://catoosatrading.com/images/cycles/1987_savage_axle.jpg

Title: Re: 12-1/2" Progressive + SuperTrapp is a no-go!
Post by Boule’tard on 11/12/09 at 11:43:02

392F38253D28253E4A0 wrote:

Too bad,....
My 12"s are close, but clear,....

Lucky! Mine wouldn't go past 11 3/4" before hitting both the axle nut and swingarm: http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1254399272/16#16

I could fit 11 1/2" shocks maximum, without changing the muffler.

Title: Re: 12-1/2" Progressive + SuperTrapp is a no-go!
Post by seviersavage on 11/12/09 at 12:20:51

Rockin J

I couldn't tell you just where I found all the wiggle room. After I got it back together and clamped down I stood back to look.
Looked fine to me, really no difference but I magically had clearance.

A little here a little there and shazam, It works.
Sevier

Title: Re: 12-1/2" Progressive + SuperTrapp is a no-
Post by Rockin_John on 11/22/09 at 21:24:31

Been sick for about a week, but I'm finally getting back around to posting some more on this project:

This is one reason why the axle bolt should go through from the LEFT side:
http://catoosatrading.com/images/cycles/parts/savage_shocks/P1010001.JPG
That is unless you LIKE pulling your exhaust to pull the rear wheel!!! Personally, I put it back the way the Suzuki service manual shows it, and the way two different shops put it back in on two different bikes when replacing the rear tire. I think there's a legit reason why it goes in from the left, and I think I know why. Anyone else care to venture a guess?

BTW, SevierSavage was right, if you loosen all the muffler and header mounting stuff up and wiggle it around some; you'd be surprised how much room you can make without cutting anything. I finally got it looking like it might be alright on the right side. BUT THEN... of course I ran into more problems... on the LEFT side:

http://catoosatrading.com/images/cycles/parts/savage_shocks/P1010007.JPG

I'm not sure even re-installing the 17 tooth front sprockt (which was too high geared for my liking) will make the chain clear the swing-arm; unless I also go up to a 45t or 47t on the rear to make more room (and get my gearing back down where it should be anyways.) Of course then I'd get to spend another $70 or so on another cheap o-ring chain; since this one is going to be too short if I do that.

I didn't really like how the 12" shock was jacking the rear up so high anyways.
http://catoosatrading.com/images/cycles/parts/savage_shocks/P1010004.JPG
Notice I said 12" and didn't add the 1/2"? That's because I've realized that none of these shocks I've been working with are the 11-1/2" and 12-1/2" I thought they were:

Here's one of the shocks I've been replacing:
http://catoosatrading.com/images/cycles/parts/savage_shocks/2/P1010001.JPG
About 11" center to center.

And the Progressive:
http://catoosatrading.com/images/cycles/parts/savage_shocks/2/P1010002.JPG
Closer to 12" than 12-1/2"

And look how short the one's on my "chopper" have been cut down:
http://catoosatrading.com/images/cycles/parts/savage_shocks/2/P1010003.JPG
I keep the short ones on the highest preload setting, and they almost never bottom out; and it doesn't ride bad either.

Looks like I may scrap the whole tall shock thing on the "road bike" and save them for a planned enduro/track bike version Savage. Notice I've got the old purple 87 kind of set up that direction in the pictures in my sigfile. I'll really need a chain conversion on whatever bike ends up being more rugged off-road use oriented anyways. And that bike should also be one of the 5-speeds, not a 4-speed.

Hmmm... I can see it coming now. the old low-mileage 87 ends up being the "road bike;" and the current "road bike" becomes the "track/enduro" bike with those tall shocks; some low gearing (big sprockets) with the chain drive, and some long travel fork tubes from a dirt bike. Gonna have to chop at least 5º of rake out of the frame at the steering head to make it handle decent.

Like I don't have enough projects going around here at the homestead as it is.

Hey... Anybody wanna give me about $5k for three good running Savages; and a half a garage full of spare parts: 3-4 good extra seats, both solo and double; 5-6 extra sets of handlebars; 3-4 spare exhaust systems; extra shocks and a 3.8 gallon GZ250 tank that shouldn't be too hard to fit to a Savage? All bikes combined only have about 32K miles on them.

Then I could just go buy me a Kawasaki Versys or a Bonniville Scrambler and just stop all this freakin' tinkering... :o

I started off kidding as I wrote that, but now it sounds like a pretty good idea! 8-)

Title: Re: 12-1/2" Progressive + SuperTrapp is a no-go!
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/23/09 at 01:52:34

Ill risk looking stupid,,not like Ive never done it around here.

How hard/ How goofy/ugly whatever, would raising the top shock mounts be? You'd still have your travel.