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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Anyone tried a lightweight battery? /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1257006008 Message started by Boule’tard on 10/31/09 at 09:20:08 |
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Title: Anyone tried a lightweight battery? Post by Boule’tard on 10/31/09 at 09:20:08 Hi guys, Well as my battery winds down and looks like it won't make it through the winter, I'm thinking about another cool mod :D The idea is to maybe squeeze one of these TurnTech (http://turntechbattery.com/TurnTech%20Battery/Welcome.html) batteries under the swingarm, where the charcoal can is mounted on CA models. The 5 Ah battery looks like it would fit.. dang, it's not much bigger than a tape measure. The specs say it will turn "up to 650cc" engines, and I think the cranking amperage is 240. Y'all think it will work? It is a somewhat expensive gamble at $160 + shipping, so I will probably find some reviews and see how they do on large displacement XRs, KTMs and whatnot. All naysaying and cheerleading welcome, especially if backed by facts and direct experience. 8-) |
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Title: Re: Anyone tried a lightweight battery? Post by bill67 on 10/31/09 at 10:26:05 I don't know anything about them but looks like a good idea,I think I will try it when I need a battery. |
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Title: Re: Anyone tried a lightweight battery? Post by BurnPgh on 10/31/09 at 11:12:47 no experience with them, but I'll end up doing the same thing if all goes well with yours. That'll finally allow me to get both the battery box and air box out of sight without having to carry saddlebags. Got my fingers crossed for you. |
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Title: Re: Anyone tried a lightweight battery? Post by Charon on 10/31/09 at 12:01:40 I'd have to say cosmetics must be pretty important for a person to be willing to pay three times as much for a battery with a third the amp-hour capacity of the stock battery. |
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Title: Re: Anyone tried a lightweight battery? Post by drharveys on 10/31/09 at 12:08:26 I checked out the thread on ThumperTalk -- this sounds like a promising product. Keep us posted! |
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Title: Re: Anyone tried a lightweight battery? Post by Boule’tard on 10/31/09 at 12:55:08 4D666F7C61600E0 wrote:
Yeah, that and light weight, as the title of the thread would imply. Anyway, after some preliminary measurements, it looks like I'll have about 3"W x 5"L x 4"H height to work with. That means I'm not stuck getting the TurnTech, e-batt or any micro-battery. There may be several batteries that will fit (probably longitudinally) any of which will give a significant saving in weight. I will make a wooden block of the max. size I can fit in there to see what I can get away with. I would like to go with a sealed battery if possible, perhaps a Yuasa AGM, and that's going to cost more regardless of size. The little platform that the battery will sit on isn't exactly level, so I don't want a cheap battery like the stock one that requires level mounting to keep the plates covered with electrolyte. Amp-hours are nothing and the CCA rating is everything. This bike will not be used for ad-hoc lighting at a mignight basketball game. I want the battery to start the bike within 2 seconds then for the charging system to take over. |
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Title: Re: Anyone tried a lightweight battery? Post by bill67 on 10/31/09 at 13:26:29 Some 30 years ago I read in a motorcycle magazine that someday they would have a motorcycle battery the size of a credit card,I guess that day is still to come. |
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Title: Re: Anyone tried a lightweight battery? Post by verslagen1 on 10/31/09 at 14:07:59 $200 for the 5ah The tape rule shown is one of biggest available, so don't be decived into thinking it's not much bigger than a watch battery. Why are they so carefull to tell you nothing? CCA is a standard measurement. 18 sec. pulses to start a 50cc scooter is nothing. And whose to know if they just hooked up a starter with no load on it. Do your homework my friend. This is the battery I'd want for track days, not day to day commuting. |
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Title: Re: Anyone tried a lightweight battery? Post by Boule’tard on 10/31/09 at 15:34:00 776473726D6066646F30010 wrote:
Aye sir, will research thoroughly. The 5Ah battery is 4 5/8" L x 2 3/4" wide x 3 1/2" high. It will definitely fit onto the spot where I'm thinking of mounting it, but will look for others that will fit and cost less... |
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Title: Re: Anyone tried a lightweight battery? Post by T Mack 1 - FSO on 10/31/09 at 18:27:30 5 AH..... That amp - hours. Pretty sure you will need at least 30 or 40 Amp's in seconds to crank the engine, maybe more. Also called cranking amps or cold cranking amps like Verslagen said (CCA). Car batteries are 600 to 1000 cranking amps. Next problem, the internal connections won't handle the quick current drain. I had some 12 AH batteries that were about 6"x6"x5". Tried to use one to jump start my riding lawn mower (12 hp Briggs). Well, the engine didn't turn over and then I noticed the connector was at a funny angle. Touched it and it fell off, with the innards melted. |
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Title: Re: Anyone tried a lightweight battery? Post by Charon on 10/31/09 at 19:03:44 I can only report my own experience. I put a DC-capable clamp ammeter on the battery lead of my '07 S40, and briefly saw an 83 amp current when I started the engine. The observation was brief, probably for more reasons than one. The time was brief, because the engine started about the third time through compression. The sample and display time of the (digital) meter probably influenced it. The maximum current is drawn only when the engine comes up onto compression. I saw 83 amps - the actual current may have been briefly higher. If someone has better instrumentation than I do, I sure would like to see the results. By the way, I rechecked while I had the meter connected, because I was interested mostly in the charge current. I shut off the bike, observed the meter, and restarted. The second start showed 70 amps, again briefly. This could have been because the engine had already turned, so turned more easily the second time. It also started more quickly. And the current surge could have caught the meter during a different part of the meter's sample and hold cycle. In any case, the start current is substantial, if short-time. |
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Title: Re: Anyone tried a lightweight battery? Post by Boule’tard on 10/31/09 at 21:58:28 Charon, thanks very much for the amperage numbers. I think those digital ammeters do miss the true peak because they have to chop the sample rate at some value, but it shouldn't be off by much if the cranking amperage wasn't too sharp a spike. That's pretty encouraging actually.. just 83 amps. Turntech claims 240 "CA" and not CCA. Why not Cold Cranking Amps? They admit that the battery has to warm up some before it will provide 240 amps. Fortunately the battery self-warms as you put loads (starting attempts) on it. So unlike lead-acid batteries that do their best crank first, these are supposed to improve as they warm up.. hopefully at least to the 190 amps the BigCrank provides. I still want a good ol' AGM if I can get one to fit.. still looking. |
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Title: Re: Anyone tried a lightweight battery? Post by dasch on 11/01/09 at 01:50:15 I run with a 7Ah gel battery, but not this small. Very sceptical about this one, though. |
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Title: Re: Anyone tried a lightweight battery? Post by Boule’tard on 11/01/09 at 11:53:13 Update- I made a little 4 1/2" L x 3" W x 4 1/8" H mock-up and it fits in there pretty easy. A Yuasa YTZ7S would also fit. The genuine Yuasa item runs about $90 and cheap knock-offs can be had for as little as $40. If I go with this battery I'll spring for the official Yuasa item, because I'll really be pushing the limit, CCA-wise. Plus, all the Yuasa batteries I've bought over the years have been nothing short of stupendous in performance and longevity (like 7~8 years, but I would be happy with 5 years from an undersized battery). Advantages: 6 to 7 Ah, depending on who you ask, vs. 5 Ah for the TurnTech Much cheaper than the TurnTech Manufacturer lists COLD Cranking amps vs. "optimal" if the temperature, humidity and phase of the moon is just right. Proven AGM technology, never failed me Disadvantages: Heavier than the TurnTech Slightly bulkier, may take more finagling to get it mounted Lower ultimate amperage, only 130 vs. 240. The Big-Crank provides 190. The Yuasa's 130 amps should work if Charon's numbers are right. Annoying question: "Which battery is best?" :D |
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Title: Re: Anyone tried a lightweight battery? Post by Boule’tard on 11/02/09 at 07:18:37 So the cheapest one available is Yuasa's re-tagged "Motocross" YTZ7S (http://www.batterystuff.com/batteries/motorcycle/YTZ7S.html) from batterystuff.com. Just 84 bux shipped :D I went ahead and ordered it. I'll take some photos of the install. If it goes badly or doesn't even turn the engine over, I'll post an "Oops, DO NOT TRY" here. Luckily I have a couple of smaller displacement thumpers this battery will easily work in. If it goes well with the Savage I'll post a how-to in the tech section. |
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Title: Re: Anyone tried a lightweight battery? Post by dasch on 11/02/09 at 08:57:04 When you receive - charge it for few hrs first, and jump with cables on first start. Just an advice. Mine is 7Ah, it spins OK. |
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Title: Re: Anyone tried a lightweight battery? Post by fsmidt on 11/02/09 at 12:13:42 they`re called LiFePo batteries check these site`s http://www.batteryspace.com/128vlifepo4batterypacks.aspx http://yuntong.manufacturer.globalsources.com/si/6008801163687/pdtl/Lithium-polymer/1005935014/LiFePO4-Batteries.htm#ProductCertification http://www.tradeindia.com/selloffer/1690645/Lifepo4-12V-12AH.html never tried them but i`m very interrested this one is my favorite http://www.batteryspace.com/customizelifepo4battery128v10ah128wh50aratewopcb.aspx |
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Title: Re: Anyone tried a lightweight battery? Post by Boule’tard on 11/02/09 at 13:32:26 4257494D4050240 wrote:
That one discharges at only 50 amps and the others in that price range have similar output.. you'd have to spend $330 and wire two of them in parallel to get 100 amps which may start the Savage. Thanks for the links though, I had not seen those. Dasch, you bet. All my batteries get a nice 3 or 4 hour charge at 2A on the Schumacher before they ever see a load. |
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Title: Re: Anyone tried a lightweight battery? Post by fsmidt on 11/02/09 at 13:43:20 hmmm 300 bucks :( OK next :) |
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Title: Re: Anyone tried a lightweight battery? Post by Boule’tard on 11/06/09 at 21:37:03 I got the battery. Look how small it is :D Says "MADE IN JAPAN" at the bottom, too. http://i38.tinypic.com/zo6qur.jpg It is thee perfect size to fit on that little shelf. I thought I'd have to raise the swingarm temporarily. But nope, it just barely slips in there with some finagling. I'll try to make time tomorrow to install it, but have to take care of some things on the domestic front. Hmm, install diswasher.. play with motorcycle.. :-/ |
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Title: Re: Anyone tried a lightweight battery? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/06/09 at 22:11:24 Yukkk, dishwasher. Installation includes floor, & plenty of it. Getting under the sink & working with those little connections that dont want to line up till you can see them real good, which means you'll need to install your third arm to hold the light while the other 2 hands mess with the connections. You gonna NEED some motorcycle time when youre done with that mess. Really, a dishwasher swap isnt too bad of a deal, except for the getting to the stuff you have to get to. As long as you are still young & flexible enough for the getting up & down. Pretty cool looking little battery. Pretty cool you already got your rebate on it, too.. |
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Title: Re: Anyone tried a lightweight battery? Post by dasch on 11/07/09 at 01:51:57 Boule' , my battery is pretty similar, but it doesn't fit on the canister bracket :( I had to fabricate a box to fit it under seat. Anyhow, you should consider some kind of cover, at least something to cover the top with posts, to protect from water and mud. 1 Volt drop on battery post with small battery will leave you flappin' somewhere in the rain :o |
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Title: Re: Anyone tried a lightweight battery? Post by Boule’tard on 11/07/09 at 12:23:56 Dasch, I plan to fabricate brackets to keep the battery on the shelf, but per your advice I should probably also make some sort of cover. I'll at least get some terminal boots, since the battery will be in a wet and splashy zone. Justin, yes the diswasher install is going to suck. I have to take out a drawer, shelf and cabinet door & floor, cut the opening big enough to accomodate the dishwasher, then dig power out of one wall and hot water out of another. On the bright side, I'm going to try my hand at soldering joints (you know, with the flux and propane torch). I haven't started yet though, since I'm still on babysitting duty and my daughter's being a high-maintenance little mess maker.. who absconded with the install guide ::) |
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Title: Re: Anyone tried a lightweight battery? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/07/09 at 23:07:37 Its not going next to the sink? If it is, theres the Hot H2O. My cabinet section was the same width as the D/W. Made it pretty sweet. I hope yours is quiet. Ours was a danged maintenance nightmare. Someday, I hope to have another one. Been here 4 years w/o one. Not enough room to add one, till I remodel the kitchen. I had to hack a section out of the upper edge of the cabinet that held the drawers to get it in. Nows the time to get tools. Every new challenge requires different tools. OR, you could always cough up the $$$ for someone else to install it...Naaah, you can buy tools & still save $$$.. Good luck. Be careful with the lektricity. |
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Title: Re: Anyone tried a lightweight battery? Post by Boule’tard on 11/07/09 at 23:48:18 Thanks, I'll be sure to be careful when I finally get a chance to do it. Sure, the washer is going near a sink, but my house is from the stone age. The pipes come straight out of the wall to the fixture. No handy flex-hose or shutoff valves under the sink or other 70's technology for me, oh no! I hope the washer is quiet, because choices are limited when you can't fit a full 24" model anywhere. We do at least HAVE hot water.. boy, I can hardly stand the luxury. ::) I've butted up against so many challenges already, where I thought the tool to fix the thing would be cheaper than hiring someone to fix it... I now have every tool known to mankind. :D |
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Title: Re: Anyone tried a lightweight battery? Post by mpescatori on 11/10/09 at 06:27:22 How about this one ? http://topx.it/allegati/589_B.jpg 1150 Amps cold crank, 75 Amps continuous, and it's ONLY 60 lbs !!! :D :D :D Sorry, folks, just couldn't resist... :) |
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Title: Re: Anyone tried a lightweight battery? Post by Trippah on 11/10/09 at 09:51:09 if you're thinking about moving within the next 5 years, you should check the local code; the fact the local stores sell plastic, for example, doesn't mean it'll pass the code. here in NE ,back in the day, we had to copper tube them in place, what a pain. Now it'so much easier. If you haven't soldered before, practice a bit. Try to plan the conncetions so you can do most of the soldering "standing up., not lying down. (I have hadsome siged hair) ;) Have fun. |
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Title: Re: Anyone tried a lightweight battery? Post by Boule’tard on 11/10/09 at 09:52:58 263B2E38282A3F2439224B0 wrote:
Awesome!! Screw the oil companies, I'm going to get that battery and just ride around on the starter motor! Hmm.. 60 lbs.. I will have to get mikestrikes to send me a trike conversion rig. Hope he takes Payal :D Edit: Trippah, I think the install will be up to code. The only plastic will be the drain line, under fairly low pressure from the DW pump. |
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Title: Re: Anyone tried a lightweight battery? Post by bill67 on 11/10/09 at 10:19:07 In Wisconsin you can use plastic for hot and cold water,In Illinois just for cold. |
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Title: Re: Anyone tried a lightweight battery? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/10/09 at 15:58:55 707B7E7E2425120 wrote:
Doooo Whut? Why? |
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Title: Re: Anyone tried a lightweight battery? Post by bill67 on 11/10/09 at 16:32:42 Bouletard was talking about hooking up a dishwasher,So were talking plumbing |
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Title: Re: Anyone tried a lightweight battery? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/10/09 at 17:18:41 But why cant plastic do the hot, too? It does here in Tx. CPVC for hot, PVC for cold. |
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Title: Re: Anyone tried a lightweight battery? Post by Truckinduc on 11/10/09 at 18:16:05 Mine used to be mounted there, but I gave up after 3 batteries fried. |
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Title: Re: Anyone tried a lightweight battery? Post by Truckinduc on 11/10/09 at 18:16:18 http://i28.tinypic.com/2cwrkw2.jpg |
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Title: Re: Anyone tried a lightweight battery? Post by Routy on 11/10/09 at 18:27:24 67787E7964635262526A78743F0D0 wrote:
Where you guys been ? Everything is done in pex tubing now,...hot cold all the same, except for the color. Copper is history. |
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Title: Re: Anyone tried a lightweight battery? Post by bill67 on 11/10/09 at 18:44:52 Different states have difference codes.In Wisconsin you can't use and unvented heater in your garage,but in Illinois you can use it in every room but a bedroom.Just showing how codes are different . I live on the state line of wi and il. |
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Title: Re: Anyone tried a lightweight battery? Post by Boule’tard on 11/10/09 at 20:24:12 183E392F27252228392F4C0 wrote:
Holy F*CK! The same Truckinduc that posted this build (http://www.supermotojunkie.com/showthread.php?t=71888) on supermotojunkies and the VTR streetfighter (http://www.customfighters.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15986) and you're building another one out of a Savage?!! (http://www.customfighters.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26316) I will be watching that thread, to say the least. Pay attention folks. This dude is an artist and real builder of bikes straight out of scrap metal. Way more talented than any of those OCC clowns. So my battery will fry, dammit. Did your batteries have 130 cranking amps, and how long did they last? This yuasa is supposed to be really good for its size. Maybe I should mount it half-ass where the battery box was before welding on the shelf brackets? I've also heard of Yuasa "snap failure" but thought they fixed it. |
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Title: Re: Anyone tried a lightweight battery? Post by Truckinduc on 11/10/09 at 20:36:05 Well Thank you for the warm welcome. Dont take it as me saying your battery will fry. As long as the Yusa is a gel battery, it should be fine mounted to the swinger. Mine were frying not because of the mounting, but because of the quality of the battery itself. It was an Xtreme brand AGM battery. The brand they sell at the Batterys plus stores. I got 20 miles out of the first batt, 300 out of the second one, and 4 out of the third. I was fed up with them at that point. Went back to a wet lead acid and never had another problem. 3000 miles later still no problem. My savage is getting Sportbike wheels and suspension, as well as a turbo. Its gonna be a sport bike in disguise |
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Title: Re: Anyone tried a lightweight battery? Post by dasch on 11/11/09 at 03:40:02 Truckinduc, this is a piece of idea!! Kudos! I was measuring for similar thing, than I ran out of free time... Please post more of this project. |
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Title: Re: Anyone tried a lightweight battery? Post by Truckinduc on 11/11/09 at 13:28:56 http://i37.tinypic.com/spg174.jpg Like this? |
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Title: Re: Anyone tried a lightweight battery? Post by Boule’tard on 11/11/09 at 21:10:43 Monoshock swingarm, 40+mm forks, rear disc, cast wheels.. exhaust literally over the top.. drool drool, etc. This can't NOT turn out badass. Needs a lighter weight battery though :D Did you tuck in the footpegs to deal with the stock bike's lack of ground clearance? Will the suspension raise the bike much? Hope your knee's doing allright. It is pretty inspiring to see this kind of work being done by someone as they hop around on crutches. |
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Title: Re: Anyone tried a lightweight battery? Post by RidgeRunner13 on 11/11/09 at 21:29:24 Does the Savage engine have enough oil pressure for the bearings in a turbo to survive? I love the idea, but have concerns about feeding that turbo bearing, especially at idle.It's possible you will have to figure out an auxillary oil pump & reservoir seperate for the turbo. With a timer you could continue to circulate oil to the bearings after shutdown. Hmmmmm. 8-) |
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Title: Re: Anyone tried a lightweight battery? Post by verslagen1 on 11/11/09 at 21:38:42 The pressure out of the oil pump is pretty low. I'd tap the case and run an aux. pump. |
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Title: Re: Anyone tried a lightweight battery? Post by RidgeRunner13 on 11/11/09 at 21:50:05 With what I know about turbo bearings, I think you would be better off with a seperate oil supply just for the turbo. Too many possibilities of damage from contaminants in the oil in the motorcycle crankcase. 8-) |
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Title: Re: Anyone tried a lightweight battery? Post by Truckinduc on 11/14/09 at 20:18:01 Why do you say that? Just because of the clutch fibers in the oil? Lots of bikes run turbos these days circulating the engine oil. Given it might be necessary to change the oil more frequently. |
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Title: Re: Anyone tried a lightweight battery? Post by RidgeRunner13 on 11/14/09 at 21:33:19 Oil pressure on these engines is 7-10 psi at 3000 rpm. I don't know of any turbos that like oil pressure that low, even if contaminants aren't a problem. Any kind of hiccup at that low pressure & who knows what will happen. I think I would want to fabricate a system with an electric pump capable of about 30 psi. A seperate resevoir of maybe 16oz. along with a small cooler & a timer to maintain oil flow for 30-60 seconds after shutdown would insure the turbo a longer life. 8-) Of course if you know of a turbo meant to operate at that low oli pressure then-----never mind..... ::) |
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Title: Re: Anyone tried a lightweight battery? Post by Truckinduc on 11/15/09 at 00:06:30 Well I was trying to find a figure on the oil pressure. and your right that is horribly low. Id like nothing less than 20 psi while spooling. Hmm I wonder How ceramic ball bearing turbos respond to low oil pressure. |
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