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General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> I'm getting upset w/ poor low-throttle running
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Message started by voldigicam on 10/25/09 at 12:42:30

Title: I'm getting upset w/ poor low-throttle running
Post by voldigicam on 10/25/09 at 12:42:30

Pulled the plug - slightly brown, really doesn't look too lean, and performance at altitude suggested rich on the pilot. I had a thin spacer. So I put the white spacer back in - figured that would lean things just a tad. No better running.

Feels like a fuel starvation issue, but remains with the petcock on prime.

An intermittent slightly irregular hesitation. Not the lean hunting thing, just a uugghhh ugh uggh OK OK uugghhh slowing. Really doesn't feel like anything I've experienced before. Annoying as all getout.

Once I hit 1/4 throttle the beast perks right up and goes great!!! I rode the Volusia yesterday and forgot how nimble and quick the Savage is.

Dyna exhaust, 52.5 pilot with holes, 152.5 main, white spacer (but 1/3 of white spacer does the same thing). Fuel flow through the filter looks fine.

Any ideas? Any expert in the Knoxville area? I'm getting frustrated with this.

Title: Re: I'm getting upset w/ poor low-throttle running
Post by Texas-1-lunger on 10/25/09 at 13:17:02

Have you checked the vacum lines on the carb ?

Title: Re: I'm getting upset w/ poor low-throttle running
Post by Yonuh Adisi on 10/25/09 at 14:54:21

Try a 52.5 without holes.

Title: Re: I'm getting upset w/ poor low-throttle running
Post by thumperclone on 10/25/09 at 15:02:14

dirty air cleaner?

Title: Re: I'm getting upset w/ poor low-throttle running
Post by voldigicam on 10/25/09 at 17:28:53

Air filter is new.

Vacuum line is new, and it does the same on prime, so that's not it.

I'll pop the 52.5 w/o holes in. It's just trouble to easily get to - battery box is in the way, so I end up having to pop the battery box out to reach the screws for the float chamber.

Title: Re: I'm getting upset w/ poor low-throttle running
Post by BurnPgh on 10/25/09 at 17:34:50

no no no. Loosen the clamps on either end of the carb, remove the carb top, slide, needle, etc and just flip the carb (more or less) upside down. There ya go.

Title: Re: I'm getting upset w/ poor low-throttle running
Post by Texas-1-lunger on 10/25/09 at 17:43:59

Yeah woah dont tear things up. just loosen it up and twist it around till you can access what you want to get to.

Title: Re: I'm getting upset w/ poor low-throttle running
Post by voldigicam on 10/25/09 at 18:15:46

Maybe it will turn. I'll give that a whirl. I'm tired of messing with it - now I've got the Volusia to go through, too. Probably get by with one tank-off pass because it runs well. Do the valve adjust, change coolant, replace spark plugs all at once.

Title: Re: I'm getting upset w/ poor low-throttle running
Post by bill67 on 10/25/09 at 19:09:43

You don't have to take anything off just take off the fuel the bowl.

Title: Re: I'm getting upset w/ poor low-throttle running
Post by BurnPgh on 10/25/09 at 19:38:28

what he' saying though is that he cant get the fuel bowl off from underneath with the battery box there. Too tight a space to work in. I can't do it either, thats why I just flip the carb. Plus its kind of hard to get the jets in and out without really being able to see what you're doing and while balancing the jets on the end of a screwdriver. Plus if you're switching main jets you gotta worry about that brass ring dropping down into the abyss behind the starter.

Title: Re: I'm getting upset w/ poor low-throttle running
Post by bill67 on 10/25/09 at 19:44:35

You just pull the fuel bowl away from the battery box and it comes right off.It tight but it works.

Title: Re: I'm getting upset w/ poor low-throttle running
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/25/09 at 19:45:12

Sweep the floor first, then put a towel over the engine, like a dish towel, no napp.

Title: Re: I'm getting upset w/ poor low-throttle running
Post by voldigicam on 10/25/09 at 20:17:54

Doesn't matter how hard I pull, it won't come clear of the battery box sufficiently. I expect different bikes are a little different. This is an S40. Might be different from earlier models, who knows. I'm over it, so I'll try wedging it out again. Before I ended up needing too many hands.

Title: Re: I'm getting upset w/ poor low-throttle running
Post by verslagen1 on 10/25/09 at 20:34:07

Voldi, can't there to show, sorry.
Wiggle the carb left and right, up and down just to loosen it a bit.
Now I forget axactly, but lift turn pull or vise versa.

Also if you're just changing the jets, you can just drop the bowl.
Get yourself a compact mirror when your wife ain't lookin', a 3" diameter is good.
Havin' a hard time getting the screws loose? use a pair of vice grips on the heads.
use a stubby straight blade on those jets and your fingers to start them.

And if you need just abit more room, take off the battery cover top.

Title: Re: I'm getting upset w/ poor low-throttle running
Post by Serowbot on 10/25/09 at 23:04:32

Sounds like an air leak... if not the vac line... perhaps the intake manifold?...
Try spraying a mist of wd-40 around it, and listen for a change...
also, check the needle slide,... is it moving freely, and is the rubber diaphragm intact and correctly seated?...

Title: Re: I'm getting upset w/ poor low-throttle running
Post by LANCER on 10/26/09 at 02:13:03

You've tried all the normal stuff but the symptom persists...makes me think you have a tiny bit of grit in the pilot system passages some where. You said that once you get beyond 1/4 throttle it goes away; that's because you now bring in the needle/jet midrange circuit to supply more of the fuel and the slight blockage in the pilot system is no longer a major issue.
As suggested above, if you loosen the clamps on both sides of the carb and just rotate it so the carb is horizontal, then remove the bowl cover and take out jets and the carb top/slide assembly as well if possible, then with compressed air or at least carb cleaner can, blow out the pilot circuit passages. If you have time and can get access then do main circuit and needle jet as well...might as well as long as you are between dance tunes, eh ? :D

Title: Re: I'm getting upset w/ poor low-throttle running
Post by voldigicam on 10/26/09 at 08:16:03

Blew out all the circuits. Checked for vacuum leaks. Checked float level. Put original 52 pilot in, no holes. Still have the problem.

Idles fine, weakens and bucks a little just off idle, worst at about 1/8 throttle maybe. Right at 1/4 or a little less starts to improve, perfect at a bit over 1/4 and above.

I think I'll put the 55 back in, maybe it's lean and just a weird feel. If that doesn't do it, then I'll pull the carb and soak it.

Title: Re: I'm getting upset w/ poor low-throttle running
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/26/09 at 08:21:26

Grab the shaft the throttle cable is working & shake it.

Title: Re: I'm getting upset w/ poor low-throttle running
Post by seviersavage on 10/26/09 at 08:30:53

I agree with putting in the 55 pilot, That's where I ended up before I traded carbs, You could try a vm if you really want to wake it up.
Seviersavage

Title: Re: I'm getting upset w/ poor low-throttle running
Post by voldigicam on 10/26/09 at 08:40:03

203F393E23241525152D3F33784A0 wrote:

Grab the shaft the throttle cable is working & shake it.

What does that do? It turns freely.

Title: Re: I'm getting upset w/ poor low-throttle running
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/28/09 at 07:49:56

See if its loose in the bushing. If it wiggles around too easy, it can leak. Then youd be sucking air there. NOW, I need to go look at the carb & see just how its built, OR someone else can say if this thing is totally a hare brained idea. Still, doesnt hurt to check, I havent seen anyone say anything about a bushing wearing out. On the carbs Ive seen it happen to, they were OLD, cars with loads of miles.. just a thot , tho.

Title: Re: I'm getting upset w/ poor low-throttle running
Post by voldigicam on 10/28/09 at 12:03:09

OK. 55 is in. No shake in the throttle shaft. It's not that old a bike really. The carb is clean clean inside. So it's a bit odd.

Now on accel or decel I have a nice lean notch from just off idle to somewhere right around 1/4 throttle. I can tell it's lean by running in that throttle position (a nice setting for my country road riding) and popping out the enrichment knob one click - the running settles in nicely with a little extra kick of fuel drained in.

My understanding is that this would be the pilot range.

So. I have the white spacer in. Does that impact the pilot range? If so, I can pull it out. Otherwise, I'll pull the carb, tear it down, and run a guitar string through all the passages I can reach, blow them out, make sure they're running clean.

If that doesn't work, I'll buy some jeweler's reamers (actually, I'll get my dad to bring his this weekend) and make myself a 56, 57, 59 or wherever it ends up!

On the other hand, the bike runs great over 1/4 throttle - very strong. 65 mph on the highway, just purrs along.

Title: Re: I'm getting upset w/ poor low-throttle running
Post by bill67 on 10/28/09 at 12:11:49

Try some Seaform in it the slide could be sticking.

Title: Re: I'm getting upset w/ poor low-throttle running
Post by voldigicam on 10/28/09 at 13:28:11

Slide should be fine - moves very freely, just cleaned. And I routinely run seafoam. Possibly one of the reasons the carb is always sparkly. If it was crudded up this would make more sense!! But it's spotless inside.

Title: Re: I'm getting upset w/ poor low-throttle running
Post by mornhm on 10/30/09 at 05:48:42

I almost hate to jump in, but with all you've said, it really sounds like you have an obstruction in one of the passages. Maybe some seafoam would clean it out - "varnish" can be very tenacious, but a good cleaning of the carb, making absotively, posilutely sure that the passages are clean sounds like possibly the only solution.

Title: Re: I'm getting upset w/ poor low-throttle running
Post by skrapiron -FSO on 10/30/09 at 07:05:03

Have you checked your valve clearance? If they are too tight, they may be leaving the valves partially open, leading to a lean mixture and incomplete combustion....

Title: Re: I'm getting upset w/ poor low-throttle running
Post by voldigicam on 10/30/09 at 13:03:29

Valves are perfect. Carb has been out and blown out. But I ran for 1500 miles w/o a fuel filter, so I could have picked up a piece of junk.

Think I'll pull, blow out all passages thoroughly, put in equivalant of 1/2 white spacer, and see how that does.

Thanks all.

Title: Re: I'm getting upset w/ poor low-throttle running
Post by skrapiron -FSO on 10/30/09 at 14:34:03

Have you tried it WITHOUT the filter since??? You could be sucking air through the filter..... Try a straight piece of fuel line and see if it improves...

Title: Re: I'm getting upset w/ poor low-throttle running
Post by LANCER on 10/30/09 at 14:57:02

3B222129242A242E2C204D0 wrote:

Don't just blow the passageways with air, use the wire to run through each of the holes to know for sure that they are clear. The little brass tube that sticks down into the bowl is easy to clog. It has a hole on the very end and two ... one on each side ... on each side of the tube.

Did you pull the little cover on the right side ? The one with the 3 screws ? The passageways inside are connected to the pilot system and the choke system and to the brass tube that is in the bowl. Some of the carbs have a tiny jet inside the 3-screw cover, down inside one of the holes. Did you pull it out and clean it and the passage below it ?

Title: Re: I'm getting upset w/ poor low-throttle running
Post by Routy on 10/30/09 at 16:51:09

Why do I almost hate to chime in also, but I must.

I agree to clean all passages in the carb, because after all that has been done, it is not just a metering adjustment or jet size problem.

And just for info for those that don't know, (I'm sure the mechs here already know) if an engine is idling good, there is no intake manifold, or vacumn leak, nor are the valves too tight. At idle is the first place these problems will show up. Even a vacumn leak from a worn throttle shaft will show first at idle.

Also, if an engine runs good at WOT, there is no problem w/ the air and fuel delivery system, which includes the air filter, the fuel filter, the main jet, and the main gas line from the tank to the carb.

Title: Re: I'm getting upset w/ poor low-throttle running
Post by voldigicam on 10/30/09 at 19:23:51

Has to be in the pilot circuit or I'd see it elsewhere. I'm just riding the Volusia until I have time to tear into the Savage. I'll tear the carb completely down and probe all the passages. I just blew them out before.

I do get gas just fine etc. Or the problem wouldn't just be with the pilot circuit.

Nice bike, I miss it.