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Message started by kennycreed on 10/23/09 at 04:37:45

Title: oil
Post by kennycreed on 10/23/09 at 04:37:45

Hi all, I have been running my two Ls's on 15-40 oil no problem except that I change the oil every three to four hundred miles and it's costing me a bomb. I have the chance of buying a five gallon drum of 20-50 oil at half price, would the 20-50 be ok in the Ls??? ,,,cheers,,kenny

Title: Re: oil
Post by Routy on 10/23/09 at 05:08:12

What brand of oil ???
Just kidding !!! Don't even mention the brand !

Except in really cold weather, I wouldn't give it a 2nd thought, just do it.

Title: Re: oil
Post by Ebikerman on 10/23/09 at 06:34:15

KennyCreed, Why are you changing your oil so often? If everybody adopted your method, our environment could be negatively affected. I once read a report that included that more frequent oil changes than necessary was harmful to an engine. I am not sure why or that I agree either. However, in my opinion you are waisting your money and time changing oil so often unless you use an inferrior oil and dont trust it for longer periods. I don't understand. Modern oil will hold it's viscosity for about 800 miles. You could go at least that far, don't you think? ....Dan

Title: Re: oil
Post by Oldfeller on 10/23/09 at 07:10:42

Ah, the first rational question that starts the chain of questions that starts the neverending infamous oil war ...

Remember, he's from Scotland and does not have the necessarily the same name brand names that we have in America and also kindly remember that his oil is spec'd to DIN or some other standard, not necessarily SAE or JASO.

In short, as far as oil goes it is a different language.

Title: Re: oil
Post by Texas-1-lunger on 10/23/09 at 07:13:48

;D Aint that the truth.

Title: Re: oil
Post by kennycreed on 10/23/09 at 07:17:05

I use the cheapest oil I can find and change it before it starts going black, the reason is just my way of thinking because I am away at sea for three weeks at a time and the bikes are sitting idle for that time, building condensation and other kind of crud inside the engine, and when I come home they get a good thrashing, so I know the oil is ok, also when I have enough used oil saved up I spray it underneath my van and car to keep the rust away which living beside the sea is an on going battle,,cheers,,kenny

Title: Re: oil
Post by Texas-1-lunger on 10/23/09 at 07:21:08

I use 50 w its fine bud. ;)

Title: Re: oil
Post by Oldfeller on 10/23/09 at 07:26:35

The only issue you may have with 20w50 is somewhat sluggish circulation on very cold mornings. Just go gently for the first little bit until your engine warms up a bit and your half price 20w50 should do OK even on a cold morning. At your "change it when it gets black" rate you shouldn't have issues with additives wearing out, etc.

Suzuki stops recommending 20w50 oil around -10 degrees F, so you should be good for most temperatures for most days you'd be riding anyway.

Title: Re: oil
Post by Texas-1-lunger on 10/23/09 at 07:29:29

X2 on the warm up, I noticed on on clod mornings I get some cluth slippage if I peel back on the vrooom handle, just take it easy til it warms.

Title: Re: oil
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/23/09 at 07:50:57

You could get some cans of rubberized undercoating & seal the underside. OIling the underside of the car seems a bit counterproductive. That oil is going somewhere..like, maybe a street? Where is it going from there? aNYONE ELSE DO THIS? If lots of people spray undersides of cars, then dont the streets get oiled up? Thats just not sound ecology. Your oil lasts longer than that, the $$$ youll spend over the life of the bike, making sure the engine doesnt have a problem, would have paid for an engine, not to mention the time you spent.

Title: Re: oil
Post by Oldfeller on 10/23/09 at 08:01:58

You know, most folks who had clutch slippage issues a couple of years back did seem to use 20w50 oil (various brands). I wonder if the constant slippage when first starting up cold did something to their plates that caused the slipping to gradually increase over time?

Just a thought -- irrelevant anyway. We know a lot more about clutches than we did back then and I bet we can fix most "slipping clutches" without taking them apart with an oil change and a rod change, even if lightly contaminated with energy star crap from an inappropriate oil.

Wow, just think of all the springs and plates that got put into bikes back then unnecessarily --- heck, I even bought a set of plates back then expecting the "slippy monster" to come sneak up on me unexpectedly.

Well, OK -- eventually I will use them. But I really do want all the old plates taken out of all the Savages out there as they are really only "just broken in good" when you thought they are worn out.

Change your rods, boys and girls, change your rods.

Title: Re: oil
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/23/09 at 08:13:07

OF, Im not tracking there. I cant picture how the rod would keep the clutch from working/ fully engaging. I mean, seems to me that as long as I have slack in the lever, theres no "Throwout" action going on & the full pressure of the springs is being felt by the plates. Im trapped in my thinking that the rods are there to adjust where in the arc it travels the "paddle" on the arm starts picking up pressure from that rod. I know youve been in & out of these more than I, tho, so can you splain it (REaders Digest level of complexity if possible) so I can get it?

Title: Re: oil
Post by jabman on 10/23/09 at 13:53:04

I'm in England and I use 10-40. In Scotland at this time of year I would use a 5-40 oil. From what other people say a 20-50 is OK for a hotter climate

Title: Re: oil
Post by Gort on 10/23/09 at 14:23:51

3F302A312D2B383A323C2B590 wrote:

What brand of oil ???
Just kidding !!! Don't even mention the brand !

Except in really cold weather, I wouldn't give it a 2nd thought, just do it.

PLEASE! NOT AGAIN!!

Title: Re: oil
Post by Oldfeller on 10/24/09 at 03:27:46

Don't worry Gort, this is an English / Scottish thread and we don't even know the brand names should they mention any and for sure we don't know what the "legal" formulations are in that area should they mention any familiar brand names.

I think they are safe from the dreaded oil war.

Title: Re: oil
Post by Oldfeller on 10/24/09 at 03:32:08

Justin, you got the clutch rod's function just fine.

Point is that in the old days people didn't change the rods, they considered the clutch pack "worn out" and replaced all the friction plates completely unnecessarily every time they ran out of pivot travel.

A $3 rod is a lot cheaper than a $40 clutch pack.

Title: Re: oil
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/24/09 at 08:49:07

They considered the clutch pack "worn out" and replaced all the friction plates completely unnecessarily every time they ran out of pivot travel.

I did not know that. I know that as the clutch on a car wears, the toe play in the pedal goes away, so the clutch has to be adjusted looser.

Title: Re: oil
Post by jabman on 10/24/09 at 10:44:38

we have api sae and jaso specs here as well in England. some brands have different names here though

Title: Re: oil
Post by Oldfeller on 10/25/09 at 04:46:04

Sure you do .... remember all the endless bitching about that the "worn out" clutch plates people took out of the bike all measured well within the Clymer/Suzuki service specs?

Duh, they were still useable plates -- nobody had tripped over the clutch rod length thing or the fact that Suzuki sold clutch rods in 1mm longer increments for this very reason.

Our bikes have a limited adjustment range on the clutch adjustment and on the rear brake adjustment that require you to DO SOMETHING so as to be able use up the rest of the friction material.

Title: Re: oil
Post by Routy on 10/25/09 at 05:42:14

I've been following this, wondering what was the difference.....and knowing that there must be a difference in length tween the old and new rods. Thanks for clarifying that.
But why do I have to assume it is a pushrod, and if so, wouldn't we be looking for a shorter rod as the plates wear rather than longer ?

Title: Re: oil
Post by Oldfeller on 10/25/09 at 07:00:52

As the plates wear the whole stack gets shorter. As the stack gets shorter the bearing plate on top of the stack (and the rod) moves away from the static cover. As the distance increases the rod must get longer.

But I would be perfectly content to have it ass-backwards if that is the case. But I don't think so, which is why I keep an engine on my desk next to my computer so I can go look at confusing stuff like this before typing -- saves me from embarrassing myself any more than is necessary. But I do reserve the right to be occasionally wrong (because on this one I might be).

Also, your rod wears a bit on the end that sticks out as it rubs against the powdered metal pusher while the engine is turning and the clutch is held in.

Title: Re: oil
Post by Routy on 10/25/09 at 09:01:16

Thanks OF.
I'm still not quite clear on it, in that if the "push" rod must be longer, than we are talking about too much free play rather than not enough, and which would cause the clutch to not fully disengage.
Sorry,....just trying to learn more about the various parts on these bike,.....for when/if the "time comes" :)

Title: Re: oil
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/25/09 at 09:05:45

4C6F6765666F6F6671030 wrote:

Id have to have one opened up & hold the parts in my hand to get it. Well, to have a CHance at getting it. It took me quite a while to understand, not accept but realize exactly WHY the car clutch did what it does, as I adjusted them out( car, truck, ehh,, big pressure plate & a throw out, sameeey Sameeey)

AHAAA! Eureeka, I think it just flashed "Up there"..So, as the plates get thinner, the Stop for the rod moves to the center of the bike?

Title: Re: oil
Post by Phelonius on 10/25/09 at 11:15:35

I have noticed that the length of my clutch cable has nearly exhausted the adjustment length of both the lower and handlebar adjustments.
Since I have recently had this engine apart, and inspected the clutch plates for wear, only 1,500 miles back, I know that the problem is merely that the cable is a bit too long.
I shall simply go to my lathe and make a spacer that will fit between the cable jacket end and the lower adjuster to take up enough slack to bring the adjusters to a more normal position.
Photo after I have made it.

Phelonius

Title: Re: oil
Post by Oldfeller on 10/25/09 at 11:39:59

Phelonious, where does your side case mounted lever sit in the total span of actuation as marked on the main case by the two marks?

Folks have theorized that the clutch lever can break the little powdered metal eccentric portion when it starts binding against the case or jacking at the end of the rod at an extreme angle.

You are likely dealing with the same rod situation we are talking about -- but you can discover that on your own by your own methods.

Title: Re: oil
Post by Texas-1-lunger on 10/25/09 at 17:20:43

NOt trying to start up another Oil Debate but I just want to know if anyone has used Castrol 4t 20 w50 motorcycle oil? Reason I ask is I just changed mine to that from Rotela b/c I got a good deal on 2 quarts and I was just wondering if there was anyone that had bad luck with it. I'm taking a 400 mile trip in a few weeks and dont want a burn engine b/c of crappy oil.

Title: Re: oil
Post by bill67 on 10/25/09 at 19:13:05

There is no crappy oil.

Title: Re: oil
Post by Oldfeller on 10/25/09 at 19:29:55

There are no crappy motorcycle oils. Some car oils with energy stars on the bottle might get called that with some good justification, but no motorcycle rated oil is going to hurt your engine for a couple of crankcase loads.

Title: Re: oil
Post by Texas-1-lunger on 10/25/09 at 19:35:34

Good deal! I'll roll with it and see how well it does.