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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Tool /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1255379069 Message started by Oldnewguy on 10/12/09 at 13:24:28 |
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Title: Tool Post by Oldnewguy on 10/12/09 at 13:24:28 Try this 39 cent tool to remove the valve timing inspection cover. Available almost anywhere. Square electrical box cover. You can use 2 hands if you don't have to take a pic. http://p1.bikepics.com/pics/2009%5c10%5c12%5cbikepics-1803154-150.jpg |
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Title: Re: Tool Post by FreeSpirit on 10/12/09 at 13:39:08 You can also use that to put under your kickstand to keep it from sinking if needed. So you could just buy 2 of them,for 2 different purposes ;) |
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Title: Re: Tool Post by bill67 on 10/12/09 at 13:43:50 Free you only need one,You don't take off that cover every day |
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Title: Re: Tool Post by FreeSpirit on 10/12/09 at 13:45:57 bill...I'm thinking might as well have 2 in case you bent one or ......forgot and rode off and left the kickstand one behind. Just a girls thinking,you know we think ahead ;) |
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Title: Re: Tool Post by Oldnewguy on 10/12/09 at 13:47:17 You actually don't have to buy one, just borrow from your electric service when you need it! |
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Title: Re: Tool Post by bill67 on 10/12/09 at 13:47:29 Might as well get a dozen there cheap. :) |
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Title: Re: Tool Post by Oldnewguy on 10/12/09 at 13:49:50 One for each day of the week and 5 extra? |
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Title: Re: Tool Post by FreeSpirit on 10/12/09 at 13:50:19 I was thinking that also but figured anyone could think of that on there own ;) |
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Title: Re: Tool Post by bill67 on 10/12/09 at 13:55:20 See 3 heads are better on 1,We got that problem figured out pretty quick. |
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Title: Re: Tool Post by FreeSpirit on 10/12/09 at 13:57:17 Yeah...or I'm wondering why I thought I ever needed a man :-/ ;) Oh sorry my sense of humor is going a bit wild today ;D ;) Really, part of me was joking :D I guess I might need a guy for the more difficult stuff,huh ;) |
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Title: Re: Tool Post by verslagen1 on 10/12/09 at 14:18:09 I have a few of these laying around... http://verslagen.savageriders.com/ValveAdj/DSCN0487.JPG Free, fits tight in the slot, plenty of leverage. That's why you need a man, the right tool for the job. |
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Title: Re: Tool Post by FreeSpirit on 10/12/09 at 14:29:38 Yes,but....there are all different kinds of tools. Just have to know which one to use. That's all! Plus all I need to know is how to adjust the valves,or check them....then I'll be doing pretty good ;) |
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Title: Re: Tool Post by Routy on 10/12/09 at 18:25:44 Adjust valves ?? These bikes don't have hydraulic lifters?,.....oh, I guess it would have to be hydraulic rockers ?? Wouldn't that be nice ! |
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Title: Re: Tool Post by FreeSpirit on 10/12/09 at 19:24:43 And I dont know why the link went away to adjust the valves :-/ |
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Title: Re: Tool Post by verslagen1 on 10/12/09 at 19:48:30 As far as I can tell, we have a disgruntled ex member. |
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Title: Re: Tool Post by Paladin. on 10/13/09 at 10:17:57 I don't like using excessive effort, so I cut off a 3/4" piece of 3/4" x 1/16" bar stock to use in the air impact wrench: http://paladin.savageriders.com/images/impact2.jpg |
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Title: Re: Tool Post by Stimpy on 10/13/09 at 10:37:48 "air impact drill" :'( sniff sniff that is EXACTLY what I need ... I have not been able to open that cover in 4 years!! |
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Title: Re: Tool Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/13/09 at 10:55:37 IDK if the Ryobi 18V. impact will handle it, but I suspect it would. Its just a 1/4" impact, but it sure jams lag screws in & I know they are hard to screw in. Its been a real labor saver. I got a kit with that & a drill & I was able to get the little circular saw with it. I cant remember if it was "Buy the drill/impact kit & get a #20.00 bargain on one more",, been a while, but Christmas is coming up & there will be bargains out there. Im very pleased with the Ryobi, but a hard look at all brands is important. They are always jockeying for market share & make improvements to attract customers to their brand. You can also pick up a 12 volt 1/2" impact. Those are handy to have in the car & good enough for a few things in the shop. I would want that "Tool" shaped to fit the radius & spread the pressure more evenly in that fragile little cap. Even a little portable compressor will run an impact long enough to bust an axle loose. Pawn shops have used stuff for a lot cheaper. I really dont like an impact that doesnt have a "Feather" trigger. Like Chicago Pneumatic, its either all the way on or all the way off. Ingersoll Rand 1/2 impacts have a trigger that allows it to chug along easy if thats what you need to do. Look at the tire shops. Nearly all the impacts in those shops are Ingersolls. |
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Title: Re: Tool Post by Oldnewguy on 10/13/09 at 12:36:39 Take that cover I showed and put a vise grip at 9 and 3 o'clock. I'll bet it loosens the cover! |
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Title: Re: Tool Post by bill67 on 10/13/09 at 12:44:24 Oldnewguy I think your way is the easiest and the quickest way.It would be done while the other guys are looking for their tools. |
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Title: Re: Tool Post by serenity3743 on 10/13/09 at 13:20:08 And the cap doesn't need much torque, so when you put it back on you don't have to "impact" it. |
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Title: Re: Tool Post by Oldnewguy on 10/13/09 at 13:22:28 I just can't see running the compressor and an air wrench for such a simple task. |
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Title: Re: Tool Post by Paladin. on 10/13/09 at 17:21:12 7D6A7B6A6A782E1A0 wrote:
Actually the compressor was brought out for the phillips head screws holding the bracket for the decompression thing. I tried brute force, but the heads were starting to distort without the screws budging. So I rigged up a whacker: http://paladin.savageriders.com/images/impact1.jpg An electric impact screwdriver would do the job, but I don't have one of them. |
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Title: Re: Tool Post by prsavage on 10/13/09 at 17:34:19 With a set up like that I would end up with a phillips drill. At least the screw head would look like it had been attacked with a drill. ;D |
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Title: Re: Tool Post by FreeSpirit on 10/13/09 at 19:54:07 362532332C2127252E71400 wrote:
So....ummm,someone else can put it back up ;) |
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Title: Re: Tool Post by Oldnewguy on 10/14/09 at 03:32:18 Bet it's in the clymers with pics, cuz I've seen it. |
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Title: Re: Tool Post by sakara on 10/14/09 at 07:29:44 For FreeSpirit: (someone sent this to me a while ago in an email; I'm just copying and pasting) Valve Adjustment This is meant as a walkthrough for us shade tree mechanics who don't really know what we're doing. As a DISCLAIMER, though, I must say that you take any responsibility for mistakes you make following this guide, even if the guide is wrong in some way. I am not a professional mechanic or even particularly experienced wrencher. First time I adjusted my valves, I did them 180 degrees out of phase (i.e. the engine was at TDC on the exhaust stroke). Got it right on the next try. Understanding what you are going to do We have an one overhead camshaft, with two lobes, one for intake and one for exhaust. The lobes push on the rockers. Each rocker has two rocker arms, which means we have four valves. The end of each rocker arm is threaded to accept a screw. As the cam turns, it pushes the rocker arms up and down. The screws push on the end of the valve stems. The screws are secured with nuts above the rocker arms. I call these nuts "locking nuts." In the following diagram, the rocker arms are the bird foot looking things, more or less labeled "10" and "7." The valve stems are labeled "31" and "30." The adjustment screws are "11" and "8," and the locking nuts are "12" and "9." It is between the end of the adjustment screw and valve stem that you will be measuring the clearance. picture: http://ls650.info/ValveAdjustment?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=Rockers_LABELS.jpg/img] So first step: Make a nice clean area in your garage and get out the tools you will need. Tools Long Philips head screw driver #1 or #2 flat head screw driver 10 mm wrench 10 mm offset wrench (you may be able to get by w/o this) 12 mm wrench or socket (w/ ratchet) 14 mm wrench or socket (w/ ratchet) small pliers, I like needle nosed 17 or 18 mm (I'll check soon) spark plug socket, ratchet w/ extension... usually 3/8", but 1/4" works with a 3/8" adapter very small feeler gauges that go down to at least 0.003", and up to at least 0.006" in 0.001" increments. I got mine at Checker Auto for $4. These are also called thickness or tappet gauges. They look like this: [img]http://ls650.info/ValveAdjustment?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=Gauge.jpg/img] 17 mm offset wrench (you can get away w/o this one too, but it helps a lot) A tool to remove the timing inspection plug; I made this with an angle grinder and a piece of angle iron I found in my garage: [img]http://ls650.info/ValveAdjustment?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=TOOL_Plug.jpg/img] Getting Started Before you start, the engine must be cold. Let it cool down overnight. Now time to take off the stuff that will be in the way of the actual valve adjustment procedure, but before we get started, round up a bucket or a box to put all the bolts, parts... you take off the bike in so that you can find them later. Remove the rider's seat. There is one bolts on each side under the seat. The 12 or 14 mm wrench should work (mine ain't stock so I don't know). Set the fuel petc0ck to "RUN" or "RES." Use the pliers to disconnect the hose/corbin clamps that hold the two tubes from the carb to the petc0ck. Remove these two hoses from the petc0ck. They can stay attached to the carb. A little fuel will come out of the larger hose, but that's okay, no more will come out of the tank. Some folks will catch it in a bucket and let it evaporate. It evaporates faster on the floor. Unbolt the bottom of the tank where the front of the seat attached. I think these are 10 or 12 mm, maybe 14. Remove the tank. You must disconnect the electrical connector and the speedo drive cable. Remove both cylinder head covers. I got rid of mine, so I used a pic of someone else's bike. I think these are 12 mm bolts. Unplug the spark plug cap (see below for pic) and use the spark plug socket to remove the spark plug. Also, move the black box that sits near the front of the gas tank, but under it, and move it out of the way (straight back). NOTE: When reinstalling the spark plug, be careful not to crossthread it or overtighten it... Barely wrench tight and then 1/8 to 1/4 turn only. Now we are more or less ready to get into the real part of the valve adjust. NOTE1: The Factory Service Manual says that once TDC is set (see below) and on the compression stroke, the decompression valve cable free play should be set to 3-5 mm. Basically, once TDC on Comp. stroke is found, pull on the cable and measure. If out of spec, loosen the lock nuts and adjust, retighten the lock nuts. Remeasure, proceed. NOTE2: Some of the pictures below are of the intake (rear) valves, and some are of exhaust (front) valves. Just whichever ones came out better. The idea is the same, though. If any experts have comments, or find mistakes, please post them or PM me. I really don't want people screwing up their engines! -V Setting TDC on the COMPRESSION STROKE Use the tool to remove the timing inspection plug. You may want to use a rag on the end of the tool to help prevent cosmetic damage. [img]http://ls650.info/ValveAdjustment?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=TIMING_INSPECTION_PLUG.jpg Remove both valve inspection covers with a 10 mm wrench. Put the covers somewhere clean and safe. I strongly recommend throwing away these bolts and replacing them with new ones. the stock ones are very soft and easy to snap. See pics. They are M6 with a 1.0 pitch. Your local hardware store should have them. Just take one in and match it. http://ls650.info/ValveAdjustment?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=INSPECTION_COVER.jpg http://ls650.info/ValveAdjustment?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=Bolts.jpg Now we must set the cam position properly. This is probably the trickiest or second trickiest part. Put the bike in neutral. As Dan recommends, stuff the long CLEAN Philips head screw driver in the spark plug hole. While doing the rest of this be careful not to let the screw driver bind against the side of the spark plug hole as the piston comes up. http://ls650.info/ValveAdjustment?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=SparkplugHole.jpg http://ls650.info/ValveAdjustment?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=SparkplugScrewdriver.jpg The trick here is to find Top Dead Center (TDC) on the compression stroke. This is a 4-stroke engine, so the piston goes up and down twice, and the flywheel turns 2 whole rotations (720 degrees) for every 1 time the cam goes around. Take the 17 mm offset wrench and turn the flywheel COUNTER CLOCKWISE WHILE LOOKING AT THE LEFT HAND SIDE OF THE BIKE. The Clymer manual has this wrong! It says to go clock wise! NO! You want to turn the flywheel in the same direction the wheels turn while going forward. http://ls650.info/ValveAdjustment?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=Timing_marks.jpg Turn the flywheel around several times while watching the rocker arms and the screw driver go up and down to get a feel for what's going on. You will be at TDC on the compression stroke when: both sets of rocker arms should be up (edited from: "both rocker arms are down" ...), the lobes on the cam will be down, but you can't see this the piston is at max height, or as Dan says, the piston just starts to go back down. Use the screw driver in the spark plug hole to determine this. There should be a little play in the rocker arms now. Check that the timing marks on the flywheel and the crank case more or less line up. Don't be afraid to keep turning the flywheel counter clockwise until you get the hang of it and are confident that you are at TDC on the COMPRESSION STROKE. NOTE: Now is the time to adjust the decompression cable free play as discussed above. If you do not have a 17mm offset wrench or are too cheap to buy one, there are 2 other methods: You can use a 17 mm deepwall socket w/ a 3/8" drive, but this is tricky. Due to inertia, the ratchet tends to let the flywheel spin past where you want it to be. That's the way ratchets work; they are free to spin in one direction. Put the bike in 5th (4th on pre , uh '95? models) gear and push it forward... while watching the rocker arms and screw driver. Or jack up the rear wheel and spin it so that the wheel turns in the forward direction. Just go buy a 17 mm offset wrench. Now we can actually measure the valve clearance and adjust it if necessary. Clearance Measurement Procedure Take your feeler gauge out. The specs call for a clearance of 0.003" to 0.005", NOT mm, for both intake and exhaust. In mm, it's 0.08 mm to 0.13 mm. On my feeler gauge, the top number is in inches, and the bottom is in mm. Only the bottom number is labeled. If you are not sure which is which, inches are bigger than mm. An exact conversion is: 1 inch = 25.4 mm. http://ls650.info/ValveAdjustment?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=GAUGEIN.jpg Make sure the gauges are clean and free of dirt. Oil is okay (they should come oily). Also, the " notation 0.005" means inches and is very common. Put the smallest gauge between the bottom of the adjustment screw (e.g. part number "11") and the end of the valve stem (e.g. part number "31"). If it fits, that's okay. Keep moving up in sizes until they won't fit. See a) through c) for the various cases. As for actually getting the gauges between the adjustment screw and the valve stem, it can be tricky. What I recommend: 1st, make sure there is plenty of light. If you are on the left side of the bike, measure the clearance on the right side while holding the rocker arm up with your other hand (remember there should be little play). Even if the gauge will fit, it may be tricky to get it in there. Practice sliding it in and out until you are sure you are measuring the right thing! I had the most success pushing the gauge straight in, but you can get them in from the side. If the 0.005" fits, but not the 0.006", the clearance is to spec. Go to step 6) of "ADJUSTING THE CLEARANCE." However, you may want to tighten them up just a little. Your call. If the 0.003" won't fit, your valves are too tight. Go to "ADJUSTING THE CLEARANCE." If the 0.005" fits, try the next size up. If the next size up and so forth fits, the clearance is too loose. Go to "ADJUSTING THE CLEARANCE." Adjusting The Clearance If your valve stem - rocker arm adjustment screw clearance is out of spec, it's time to adjust the clearance. Now the 10 mm offset wrench comes in very handy. You can also use a 10 mm socket w/ a wratchet (1/4" drive is easiest), but you can't hold the screw in place while you tighten the locking nut later w/ the wratchet. You may be able to get a regular 10 mm wrench in there, but not easily and you may mess up the nuts. Loosen the locking nut(s) with the 10 mm offset wrench. This means turning the nut counter clockwise as you look down on it. This will bring the nuts "up," towards where the gas tank would normally be. If you are still not sure, point the thumb on your RIGHT HAND up, and your fingers will point in the direction you should turn the wrench. Don't go crazy, sure and steady doesn't strip the nut or bend the adjustment screw. I DO NOT RECOMEND REMVOING THE NUTS. If they fall into the engine... well, God help you. http://ls650.info/ValveAdjustment?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=WRENCH.jpg With a flat head screw driver, loosen (same direction as immediately above) the adjustment screw. http://ls650.info/ValveAdjustment?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=screwdriver.jpg |
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Title: Re: Tool Post by sakara on 10/14/09 at 07:30:28 Insert the CLEAN feeler gauge of your choice between the adjustment screw and the end of the valve stem as before. I used the 0.004". With the gauge still in there, tightend the adjustment screw. You should be able to remove the feeler gauge with a small amount of effort, i.e. there should be a little pressure on the guage, but not a lot. Finger tighten the lockinging nut. Put the 10 mm offset wrench back on the the locking nut, and put the screw driver into the adjustment screw. Hold the screw in place and tighten the nut. http://ls650.info/ValveAdjustment?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=TIGHTENING.jpg Recheck the clearance. If it is out of spec, go back to step 1). You must do this for all 4 valves. If you are successful, you are nearly done, but I STRONGLY RECOMMEND TURNING THE FLYWHEEL SEVERAL TIMES, RESET IT TO TDC ON THE COMPRESSIONS STROKE, AND RECHECKING THE CLEARANCES ON ALL FOUR VALVES. If the clearance is good, bolt everything back up. When reinstalling the valve inspection covers, I strongly recommend throwing away the stock bolts and replacing them with new ones. If you have a torque wrench, you can get at the exhaust (front) bolts fairly easily, but not the rear ones (well, with a 3/8" drive, anyway). I recommend 12.5 ft-lbs. I found mine were tightened between 10 and 15 ft-lbs when removing them with a torque wrench. If you do not have a torque wrench that fits, use your 10 mm wrench. Tighten them firmly, but again, don't go crazy. Finger tight and then a bit more than wrench firm, maybe 1/8 to 1/4 turn. Turns out 6-8 ft-lbs is the proper torque. When I went to reinstall them at 15 ft-lbs, I broke one. If you have not replaced the valve inspection cover bolts, they will likely break. If you hear a "click" nosie while tighening them, you have broken the bolt. It may still be in one piece. Remove it immediately. If it is compeltley sheared in two, you MAY be lucky and be able to get it out with a pair of needle nose pliers or vice-grips. Otherwise you will find out how to use a screw extractor kit... if you can get a drill on there. When reinstalling the timing inspection pulg, make sure it is not cross threaded. Also, move the engine past TDC for easy starting (my bike did not like starting right there... just got a loud clanking sound). Once the covers are back on, you should still have some gas in the carb. Start the bike up and listen. You should hear SOME valve noise, but not a lot. IF YOU HEAR LOTS OF VALVE NOISE, YOU PROBABLY ADJUSTED THE VALVES AT TDC ON THE EXHAUST STROKE. START OVER. This loud noise will be really obvoius. You've never heard it before on your bike. Do not ride it. Let the engine cool overnight, go get drunk, and start over tomorrow. |
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Title: Re: Tool Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/14/09 at 07:53:52 The only thing I saw that made my stomach feel bad was a real, no kidding, metal screwdriver poked in the spark plug hole. I use a straw or wood dowel. Blow the dirt from around the spark plug before removing it. I didnt once & spent over an hour fishing stuff out, but the road I live on is not a normally surfaced road,its called oil sand. KInda looks like asphalt, but its not. |
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Title: Re: Tool Post by FreeSpirit on 10/14/09 at 14:39:27 Thank you Sakara! 8-) Very cool, since the pictures in my Clymers manual are soooo dark! You are priceless :) |
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Title: Re: Tool Post by kk lewi on 10/14/09 at 17:10:04 6F16765A58500A3B0 wrote:
Added to keep both in the same place when I need to do this. ;) |
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Title: Re: Tool Post by matt on 10/14/09 at 18:13:34 thats what i ended up doing when i couldnt find the gap |
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Title: Re: Tool Post by kk lewi on 10/14/09 at 22:56:50 415245445B5650525906370 wrote:
TDC? Toe-Deelee-Closed? :D there are marks on the crank and case? that are that close in inches?? WOW! [/quote] Oh boy newb's (time to have fun) TDC (you ask that like you know where the TPC is) Top Dead Center or when the piston reaches the very top of it's stroke, stroke is half a rotation. TPC, Timing Port Cover, the little round thing by your left ankle when your foot is on the peg. It has a slot in it for turning with a really big screwdriver. TPCR, timing port cover remover, a really big screwdriver. Recommended substitute, front disk brake pad.[/quote] More for later info. :) |
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Title: Re: Tool Post by stratman on 10/15/09 at 03:18:08 thanks sakara for posting this. The information and instructions you guys give are unbelievably detailed. Without this kind of help i wouldn't even attempt this. stratman |
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