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Message started by BurnPgh on 10/01/09 at 21:52:33

Title: reassembly
Post by BurnPgh on 10/01/09 at 21:52:33

Got my engine back in the frame but man...i just gotta vent...why doesn't anything go back together as easily as it comes apart.

Title: Re: reassembly
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/01/09 at 22:27:56

ONly thing I know of that is hard to get apart & easy to put back together is a pair of magnets.

Sometimes when we take something apart, if enough care is taken, its possible to consider just HOW we will go about getting it back in there, but usually, we just get stuff apart as well as we can & just hope it goes back. Ive pulled starters out of cars that I was almost certain I would have to pull an exhaust or bend it, but finally, it comes out. Getting the new one in? Every bit as hard,,Its just the way it, man..Aint it FUN!!??
You won, tho,Right?

Title: Re: reassembly
Post by BurnPgh on 10/02/09 at 20:47:14

No. Its all back together and wont start...and im about to set it on fire and kill myself. Seriously.

Title: Re: reassembly
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/02/09 at 21:12:59

Well IF yer gonna kill yerself, dont set it on fire, okay? Probably isnt really too far out of whack & theres no good reason to ruin a good bike on yer way out.
So, what all did you do in there? What have you checked? How does it sound? If you messed with the cam chain & it sounds funny, you may have it out of time.

Title: Re: reassembly
Post by Boule’tard on 10/02/09 at 21:39:24

Yeah what he said. Also, no cheap-ass $2500 bike is worth getting too upset about. You could set fire to it and just start over with another one, losing a few week's pay.

But we know you won't do that, because the same characteristics that had you pulling the whole engine out for rebuild in the first place, will have you fixing the problem in way less time than you've already spent. ;) I think it's called the previous investment trap.

Title: Re: reassembly
Post by BurnPgh on 10/02/09 at 21:49:19

I wont set it aflame yet. If you've read my lastest post on the forum upgrades section though you can pretty well geuss that my bike is basically my only hobby and joy aside from a girl who's been no good for me so far(thats a whole other story). Been without riding for 3 weeks doing all this work. Finally getting it all back together and having no go on ignition just makes me so depressed i could vomit on myself involuntarily. Anyway...knee-jerk reaction.

Im not getting any spark at all. Thats the only issue I've found so far. Hopefully the only one. It puzzles me though that either a plug or coil could go bad just having not been used for 3 weeks. Checked all the wiring. Nothing is loose pinched crossed or burned out. I'll get a new plug tomorrow before work. If that isnt it...ugh...it would be my kind of luck.

Title: Re: reassembly
Post by Boule’tard on 10/02/09 at 22:17:59

There you go. If you had the generator/pickup coil apart, something may have gotten out of whack there. Resistance across the pickup coil (easy to check by the orange and green wires under left side cover) should be around 220 ohms. I doubt it's the spark plug, but I bet you'll have it going withing 2 days, crisp autumn air and girly-troubles blowing away in the wind. 8-)

Title: Re: reassembly
Post by Phelonius on 10/03/09 at 15:13:02

It's not always like that. Sometimes yo can cheat.
Read my thread on silly noid. By the time I had frustrated myself enough gettigthe thing out of the parts bike, I figured how to cheat when working on the good one.

Pheloniu

Title: Re: reassembly
Post by T Mack 1 - FSO on 10/03/09 at 18:19:06

No spark, had the engine out.... check ALL the connectors to make sure they are fully seated. And, check the kill switch is in the on/run position. (trust me on this one ::) , very common issue). Aaaaaa.... is the engine ground wire is hooked up ....yes?

Getting the engine back in is a pain, even more so when you buy the bike with the engine in pieces like I did. No clue how it came apart.... like a puzzle putting it back together.

Title: Re: reassembly
Post by Phelonius on 10/03/09 at 18:42:14

It's all a process of elimination. Go through the systems one at a time to eliminate the ones that work. What ever is left is at fault.
I do not know if you have had experience with savage before but there are several safeties that are designed to not let the engine run when they are activated.
If you have a volt- ohmmeter it is easier.
When the key is on, does the headlight light up? If so then the key switch apparantly works. When you press the start button, does the headlight go out? It should because a power saving circuit temporarily shuts the light off to shunt all power to the starter and spark and compression release.
Next check the kickstand shut off switch. Trace the two wires back to the connecter where they enter the wire loom. (hint, it is under the seat and on my bike green in color for the connecters. Pull the connecters apart and at the upstream end temporarily put a small jumper wire between the two contacts. Try to start. If no spark, check the same sort of circuit on the clutch at the handlebar.
You said no spark. Does the engine actually turn over? If so does it turn over briskly or laborously?
Just check each system one at a time untill you finally corner the gremlyn and evict it.
The basic needs are to have compression, fuel mix,spark at the exact time it s needed. lack of any one of these is enough to prevent starting.
If you have spark but no ignition, the sequence of valve timong and spark timing may be wrong meaning that the cam is timed wrong.
Commonly this means 180 or 360 degrees out of time due to misunderstanding the timing marks upon assembly.

Phelonius

Title: Re: reassembly
Post by T Mack 1 - FSO on 10/03/09 at 18:47:26

Phelonius ,
Do you remember what year they added the Head-light off at start power saving circuit?? My 2001 didn't have it. The 2001 also did not have 4-way flashers that the newer bikes do.... wonder if they are added at the same time :-?

T. Mack

Title: Re: reassembly
Post by BurnPgh on 10/03/09 at 21:46:35

It cranks just fine.Sounds great doing it. It just never gets past that. All the lights work. Horn works. All safety's work except the kickstand which i disabled when installing ed ls controls. I bought a new plug to see but left it at work in my jacket. I did have the generator cover open but only to change a leaky gasket. What coudl I have screwed up? My timing on the cam is perfect i assure you. I assembled, checked, wasnt quite perfectly on so i did it again. Im spot on.

Title: Re: reassembly
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/03/09 at 22:02:13

Cam timing, valves. Maybe pop the valve cover on the exhaust, bring it to TDC & see if you have any slack in the valves.

If I had an engine that just wouldnt fire, but had spark, Id spray some WD40 in the intake,

Title: Re: reassembly
Post by BurnPgh on 10/03/09 at 22:18:21

67787E7964635262526A78743F0D0 wrote:

Timing is dead on. Im certain of it. Lobes down, marks aligned, piston at TDC. I set the valve lash before I put the engine back in and even set them a little loose in case. .005 rather than .003/4 and i turned the engine over several times by hand to be CERTAIN i was at TDCC. I was Hoping to do all this work real quick, break in the new rings, and head south by halloween. Im getting less hopeful on that count

Title: Re: reassembly
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/04/09 at 06:50:09

If I had an engine that just wouldnt fire, but had spark, Id spray some WD40 in the intake,
Get it past the slide, hold it open & squirt some "On up in yonna", If it bucks, snorts or does anything different, its a good thing. Dont use a lot & get the plug all wet..

Title: Re: reassembly
Post by Boule’tard on 10/04/09 at 07:52:09

Since there's no spark, you can still test for spark without a plug by just sticking a piece of solid wire (or maybe even coat hanger) into the plug boot and see if that either shocks you ;D or will spark when the end is near the engine.

The shop manual specifies some kind of threadlocking procedure when assembling the generator/pickup (let me know if you need a *cough* excerpt from the manual) but I'd check resistance across that and the coil first. Hopefully you can find the problem without too much effort.

Title: Re: reassembly
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/04/09 at 08:14:32

5C4345425F5869596951434F04360 wrote:

DUUUH,, Sorry, I missed the "No Spark"

Title: Re: reassembly
Post by BurnPgh on 10/04/09 at 11:10:31

From what I gather the thread locking is for if the generator is actually disassembled but it wasnt. The cover came off, new gasket, cover went back on. I'll re-read the manual again but I still cant see where I've gone wrong. I'll go to work and get that new plug I bought and see and work my way back, but really, if its anything but a loose connection , some strange misassembly on my part or bad plug I can't fix it before it time to go. My buddy has a waste veggie oil diesel bus and he's leaving the same time i planned to. I'd rather save my money and go with him right now than have to buy a new coil or whatever else might be a costly issue.

Title: Re: reassembly
Post by verslagen1 on 10/04/09 at 11:24:08

I'm thinking it's just an assembly problem.
check all the little black boxes
their wire colors should nearly match the harness colors although not always every color exactly.

Title: Re: reassembly
Post by T Mack 1 - FSO on 10/04/09 at 19:02:57

Using old plug? Hmmmmmm.... :-?

Jog my memory here. Did you have the engine apart , Jug off? If so, what did you use for assembly lube?

My thought pattern is maybe something coated the plug, shorting it. Maybe you have HV but not spark across the gap becuase a chemicl is shorting the ceramic. (remember, simple stuff first.....)

Try pulling the plug slightly away from the ground source (engine??) and see if it sparks across the air gap. NOTE, make sure you are isolated from the metal of the bike or you might light up your life .... :o

Title: Re: reassembly
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/04/09 at 19:06:10

Cleaning a plug with a wire brush or even gas can wreck it. If theres any doubt, Get a new one. Even new ones Can be bad,

Title: Re: reassembly
Post by BurnPgh on 10/04/09 at 20:15:19

had NOTHING to do with any of the work i've done. One of the pins on the connector to the CDI box was slightly corroded. Cleaned it fired her up and went for a quick spin around the block. Stimpy was right. Those new rings get the jug hot real real fast

Title: Re: reassembly
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/04/09 at 20:31:41

Now arent you glad you didnt waste any gas burning that thing????

Way to go Man!

Title: Re: reassembly
Post by Boule’tard on 10/04/09 at 21:43:10

Yep.. 2 days to fixed.. or less :D

Congratulations dude!!

Title: Re: reassembly
Post by BurnPgh on 10/08/09 at 12:39:32

okay so....whenever i start the bike up i get a fair amount of white(oil) smoke until it warms up. When I say fair...i mean a lot. BUT, onc eit warmed up it stops, and it only does it the first start up of the day. Each day the smoke also gets less and less to begin with but it's still quite a bit. I read on the Rebel forum that this is normla for new rings and as they break in it will smoke less until it stops all together. Kind of looking for reassurance.

On the up side...compression is DEFINATELY better. More torque, better accel.

Title: Re: reassembly
Post by BurnPgh on 10/10/09 at 22:20:18

nobody?

Title: Re: reassembly
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/11/09 at 00:06:26

I got no ideas, man, glad you got it going, but smoking on startup after all you did? I have no idea,,sorry.

Title: Re: reassembly
Post by BurnPgh on 10/11/09 at 00:12:25

First fresh startup it smoked for about a minute. Second time it smoked for about 30 seconds. Third time for 10-15 seconds. Im only mildly worried, but...

Title: Re: reassembly
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/11/09 at 08:05:34

Well, sounds like iits gettin better,keep at it, man,, keep at it.OR, take it all apart & see Why its doin that.

Title: Re: reassembly
Post by T Mack 1 - FSO on 10/11/09 at 14:03:32

How many miles do you have on the rebuild?? I recall break-in for ring is 500.

I hope you did NOT use synthetic oil ....

Title: Re: reassembly
Post by BurnPgh on 10/11/09 at 18:25:07

dino juice. Only a bit over 100mi so far. Im no longer worried about it. Started it today and it still smoked but barely and only for a few seconds. Its definately getting less and less so...

Title: Re: reassembly
Post by T Mack 1 - FSO on 10/11/09 at 18:39:23

Sounds like it's just breaking in.

Mine did it too. Can't remember how long though.... sorry.