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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Rusty tank... /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1254440479 Message started by Serowbot on 10/01/09 at 16:41:19 |
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Title: Rusty tank... Post by Serowbot on 10/01/09 at 16:41:19 My buddy bought a V-Star with 12 miles on it, sitting for two years... Tank is so rusted, we couldn't get the cap off... So, now the cap's off... and the tank is full off rust. Carbs cleaned, lines and petcock replaced,... But that rusty tank.... Any ideas?... :-? |
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Title: Re: Rusty tank... Post by kennycreed on 10/01/09 at 16:53:58 Aye, Take the tank off the bike and take pet tap off block the hole and put a couple of handfuls of gravel (small stones) into it and add two or three pints of water, put hand over filler hole and shake it like hell, you could put some music on to keep in time to, then pour it all out the filler hole, do this a few times and your tank will be spotless |
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Title: Re: Rusty tank... Post by rigidchop on 10/01/09 at 17:23:24 that may work, but if it looks pretty bad i'll bet not. go to your local wal mart or equivelent. buy some WORKS toilet bowl cleaner. one bottle should do it. if not, they only cost about a dollar. youll need to plug the petcock hole. i usually throw a few screws in the tank first, shake it around really well, then with a long magnetic screwdriver, take them back out. now for the fun stuff. pour in a bottle of the works, then fill the rest with water. let it set. i have let them set over night with no ill effects. the next day, pour the mixture out (according to EPA regulations ;) ) then rinse the heck out of it with water, i have done it about ten times. i would recommend sealing the tank with por 15 expensive, but worth it. disclaimer, the works is ACID so be careful. by doing this, you take full responsibility of your actions. WEAR RUBBER GLOVES!!!! now back to our regularly scheduled programing 8-) |
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Title: Re: Rusty tank... Post by srinath on 10/01/09 at 17:30:44 I dont like nuts or gravel or anything, usually some of that crap gets stuck in there wihtout a way to remove. I in fact clogged my fuel valve on my coffee colored tank 2-3 years ago with a BB put in in a POR15 prep stage. Of course savage tank does drain a lot better than some tanks do. I also hate coating tanks that dont drain 100% and you cant access much of it cos the frame tunnel is right under the filler cap. The worst offenders seem to be honda, shadow 600 and a CB400F tank were the worst IMHO. The way I would do it - muriatic acid full strength and just about 1-2 pints needed to get the rust out. 2-10 mins sloshing will do for most tanks, Drain and toss it in the sewer not storm drain. It is a component of toilet bowl cleaner, so toilets and sewers are OK with it. Ground will turn acidic and nothign grows there for 2-3 years, drain = lakes and streams = bad. Baking soda will neutralise it in any location as long as its not run off into somewhere. Follow with super hot water and slosh and dry, and baking soda can be added in addition to hot water. Dry it. Then put a little acetone in it and slosh it and get it dry with a new clean towel etc. Then put 1/4-1/2 a pint of that kreem stuff in it and slosh. as it gets thicker from evaporation, slosh it less till it just needs to be dried. I sometimes do POR15, but in a tank that dont drain 100% POR15 is a lot harder to get right. My virago 1100 is one such tank, I really prefer kreem when it dont drain 100%. I could do it but I rely on warm weather, so if I catch a cold and rainy spread it will sit till I get a 70 degree dry weekend. Anyway, $100 is I were to do it and shipping. I have over 50 tanks I have kreemed/POR15'ed. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: Rusty tank... Post by Gort on 10/01/09 at 17:34:51 Bill Hirsch products has been the leader in the automotive restoration industry for many years. They sell a kit to remove the rust and seal any gas tank. I've used the gas tank kit in a number of vehicles, and it works perfectly. Its well worth the $30.00. http://www.hirschauto.com/prodinfo.asp?number=CRK-01 |
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Title: Re: Rusty tank... Post by JohnBoy on 10/01/09 at 18:48:28 There was a post a while back where someone added a cup or two of pennies to the tank and padded it up good with a quilt. Then they put it in the clothes dryer for about 30minutes. The copper cut out the rust without cutting the harder steel, and it cleaned the pennies as well. I guess you could count the pennies to make sure you got them all back. You will still have to seal the inside of the tank or the rust will just come back. I did it one time with fiberglass resin...worked like a charm! |
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Title: Re: Rusty tank... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/01/09 at 18:53:52 & If you dont want to spend the $$$ on a kit, $12.00 for a quart of Ospho will kill the rust left in the tank after the shaking & rinsing. Phospric acid turns iron oxide into iron phosphate, doesnt cover it up, kills it..& youll have nearly all of it left over, it only takes getting it wet. |
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Title: Re: Rusty tank... Post by T Mack 1 - FSO on 10/01/09 at 19:09:55 Rustol. Mix with water (5:1 or 10:1) put in tank for 8 to 12 hours. Shaking periodically. Works wonderfully. Got it at the local Honda Dealer. http://www.sudco.com/rustol.html |
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Title: Re: Rusty tank... Post by Serowbot on 10/01/09 at 19:14:56 Thanks for all the ideas guys,... I'll print'em out and pass them on... Serowbot ;) |
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Title: Re: Rusty tank... Post by srinath on 10/02/09 at 06:16:25 Phosphoric acid turns rust into phosphate yes, but it also leaves blisters of that and it gives off a lot of powdery phosphate crap. It will take a lot of washing etc etc and phosphate slowly turns back into rust. Gasoline has enough crap in it like Oxygen and methanol that it will rust very well. I'd phosphate a frame any day, in fact POR15's acid is a close relative of phosphate and I have a frame I just did in that, I like it a lot when its out in the open, but not a gastank. Pennies, this or that, no idea, but muriatic acid eats rust very very fast and steel over 1000 times slower. And that is if you use it full strength. Once it eats the rust, it may be too dilute to have any effect on the steel. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: Rusty tank... Post by T Mack 1 - FSO on 10/02/09 at 09:44:34 46475C5B54415D350 wrote:
Srinath, Just looked at the Rustol MSDS. It says ita a Aminopoly Carboxylic Acid derivative. Do you know anything about that chemical? TMack 1 |
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Title: Re: Rusty tank... Post by Serowbot on 10/02/09 at 10:54:42 27263D3A35203C540 wrote:
Muriatic acid is the stuff people use in swimming pools right?.... Can I buy that stuff at a pool supply place?... Also, how harmful is it to paint?... |
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Title: Re: Rusty tank... Post by Gort on 10/02/09 at 10:59:19 Phosphoric acid attacks nonferrous metals such as brass, bronze, copper, etc. Any brazing will start to dissolve when submersed in phosphoric acid. I know, because I watched it happen overnight on a rusted steel item that had been repaired with braze. Phosphoric acid will change the temper of the surface of iron or steel, which is why you don't use it to remove rust from springs. I'd think real carefully about submersing a bike frame in it because the temper of the welds as well as frame temper will be affected by Phosphoric acid. Also, it is really bad for your lungs, and will burn your skin: http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/englishhtml/P3973.htm I stopped using Phosphoric acid because of a product that was introduced some years ago and works just as well, though not as fast. I use "Evapo Rust" instead and although it takes 3X longer to do the job, it always removes rust completely when an object is submersed in it. I Prefer it because it's easier to ship through the mail or UPS, it doesn't attack non-ferrous metals, and it doesn't burn your skin or eat holes in your clothes. The fumes don't burn you eyes. Its a fairly safe product to handle. http://www.evaporust.com/evaporust.html You still need to quickly seal the tank after you remove the rust because it will immediately start to rust again as soon as moisture in the air or water in your gas, hits it. Thats why the $30.00 Bill Hirsch kit is is convenient. Everything you need is right there and it works perfectly. |
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Title: Re: Rusty tank... Post by Gort on 10/02/09 at 11:01:04 392F38253D28253E4A0 wrote:
Muriatic acid is the stuff people use in swimming pools right?.... Can I buy that stuff at a pool supply place?...[/quote] Thats nasty stuff, Serowbot. I've used it to clean pools and driveways, and you have to be real careful and really protect your skin, eyes and lungs. http://www.brown.edu/Departments/Visual_Art/documents/Muriaticacid.pdf |
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Title: Re: Rusty tank... Post by srinath on 10/02/09 at 11:16:34 Muriatic acid does give out chlorine. However it eats rust so fast, and gets diluted in the process - you toss in a pint in a 3-5 gal tank, seal all holes with duct tape and 2-5 mins of shaking and you're done. Dump it on your driveway (away from all metal objects) and toss baking soda on it and water from a hose and you're done. The thing is available 2 gal for 10 bucks @ home depot. Phosphoric acid is a lot less toxic but it is messier at the end. And hard to finish the job in a closed in space. I dunno about any others. Oh, POR15's acid is a close cousin of Phosphoric acid. I agree on the quick sealing of the tank after muriatic acid, but that time is in the order os 10-20 mins not in the order of seconds. If your tank will drain dry, or drian 90% dry and you have good access like a savage tank 20 mins is plenty of time. Sealing against acetone has to be done with inner tube and petcock and a rubber stopper on the mouth, you have to keep it plugged up good. Muriatic acid in the time you would slosh it will not get out in any quantity to hurt paint. Sealing wiht duct tape should keep it 99% inside. Few little runs etc should be wiped and be OK. Honestly I have had far worse than muriatic acid. If you're afraid of it full strength, dilute it 2-10 times. But then you have to seal it tight because it will need more quantity and more time. Inner tube inside petcock works for that as does rubber plug @ cap. Muriatic acid's strength is its biggest strength, forgive the pun. Its very very quick acting. I'll happily do it for you - POR15 or Kreem, but in a way it depends on the tank design as to what is best. BTW take it from me - and I have the virago tank to prove it, if you are powdercoating it after wards, you need to do POR15. Not Kreem. It cant stand 450 degrees. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: Rusty tank... Post by tcreeley on 10/02/09 at 19:20:36 I tried the rust kit from JC Whitney but I never bothered with the poly coating. I mixed up the acid with water- use muriatic acid from harware- masonry section- cleaning bricks. It eats the rust clean and leaves a shiny metal surface behind. My tank sat 19 years unused and rusted. The only thing is that once the rust is off, the metal is unprotected. Fill it with gas right away when dry, after you rinsed all of the acid out with water. Hot sun helps. About a day to eat the rust. Have the tank and pretcock off the bike. You'll have to make up your own plug for the petcock hole. I used some old innertube cut like a gasket and the filter off the petcock and screwed it back on. I tried the gravel bit and gave up after two minutes. Besides that fine sediment can do a job in you motor. Pennies are big for the corners. If the rust goes all of the way through you'll have seal your tank with a polymer to stop the leaks. I think your could also use battery acid- -sulfuric acid. I've used that to strip steel of rust when I am forging and want to varnish it. Good luck TC |
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Title: Re: Rusty tank... Post by tcreeley on 10/02/09 at 19:27:08 about acid- I've mixed it up in one of those plastic white pails- does great, stores well and the pails usually have a cover (laundry soap bucket) Glass is best, but plastic pail is nice to use to clean up small parts too. If you get it on your skin just rinse with water. Don't inhale it and watch the eyes. -otherwise fine- like putting acid in a battery- just be sensible. |
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Title: Re: Rusty tank... Post by rigidchop on 10/03/09 at 18:39:29 just for the sake of throwing it out there, the works is muratic acid. 8-) |
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Title: Re: Rusty tank... Post by Charon on 10/04/09 at 07:50:15 Also for the sake of clarity, muriatic acid is hydrochloric acid by another name. When I tried to clean rust out of an old motorcycle tank, I used some hardware type nuts I had on hand. I felt the relatively sharp corners on the nuts would help break the rust, and the nuts would not break apart as gravel might. You could also use a length of chain (not drive chain, but the sort of chain used with a padlock to secure something). |
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Title: Re: Rusty tank... Post by RadRacer on 10/04/09 at 12:58:26 Ive found BB's or ball bearings and old gas to work best to knock out the rust but make sure to recoat it so wont rust again available at local parts store |
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Title: Re: Rusty tank... Post by srinath on 10/05/09 at 08:22:36 BB's are hard to get out. Chain I have done, but it can get stuck on bikes that have the inside lines, like my virago or GS tanks. My favorite for a tank is muriatic acid, least fuss and inspite of the word acid, the safest IMHO, cos its very fast and involves the least physical movement of a heavy tank and its disposal is relatively tension free as well. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: Rusty tank... Post by matt_savage on 10/06/09 at 15:02:52 Best method I found on the internet was to fill the tank with something that will break the rust apart (sand,rocks,bb's,nuts and bolts), then cover both fill and petcock hole with lots of tape so nothing will come out. Then wrap the heck out of the tank in thick blankets and such and tape them so they wont come undone (just acts as a cushion around the tank). Then put it in the dryer on the setting with no heat for an hour or so and let your homemade sandblaster go to work!--just dont let the wife catch you ;) Then pull it out, unwrap the blankets and open up the fill hole and dump out the media you filled the tank with. Out will come all the rust and the inside of the tank will be left clean metal. I used this method and then I used Bill Hirsch's products for cleaning and coating the inside of rusty tanks and mine to this day (over a year later) looks brand new and works like a charm!! P.S. The stock petcock will probably be useless since the screen will be caked and covered in rust particles. If you are doing this on a Savage I would recommend converting the petcock to the Yamaha Raptor petcock and never look back. HTH -Matt |
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Title: Re: Rusty tank... Post by Serowbot on 10/06/09 at 15:34:47 I love the idea of sticking the tank in the dryer... The ingenuity of it!.... But no way is a V-star tank gonna' fit in there... it's huge!... I'm gonna' file that one away for the future though... ;) It's been mentioned a couple times here,.. never would have thought of it myself... |
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