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Message started by nbatter on 09/23/09 at 14:22:29

Title: shifting speeds
Post by nbatter on 09/23/09 at 14:22:29

alright, so this is really stupid but...

ive taken the MSF course and have been driving my savage around the neighborhood. i really want her to be my primary transportation as long as the weather stays warm, but im still not fully confident driving on busier streets on traffic.

the only major issue for me is that i never drove an automatic transmission on a car, so i dont have a natural feel for when to shift. i know it varies a lot by circumstance, but i have a 2003 Savage -- at what speeds should I be changing gears?

also, the MSF course said its fine to hold the clutch down for neutral. i thought riding the clutch was bad?

thanks!

Title: Re: shifting speeds
Post by FreeSpirit on 09/23/09 at 14:39:29

nbatter,did you get the Suzuki manual with your bike?

Title: Re: shifting speeds
Post by Skid Mark on 09/23/09 at 14:45:36

Riding the clutch is keeping your hand on the lever and partially engaging it while in gear. This causes unnecessary wear and you will be repalcing the clutch too soon.

I shift when the engine revs tell me to. There are reccommended speeds to shift, but these are only guidelines and I've never looked em up.. The situation at the time will dictate when to shift. Your best bet is to ride with someone experienced. I beleive this is something you will pickup better by doing, rather than reading.

Its not a stupid question. When I got my 1st bike 100yrs ago, I rode with my older bro to learn some basics. I was shifting way too soon ( afraid to hurt the bike ) and fouling the plug. He set me straight real quick on that and many other things.

Title: Re: shifting speeds
Post by babyhog on 09/23/09 at 14:54:49

With you being a man, this may not be the best suggestion, but maybe...... if you could ride b!tch with someone else, they could tell you when they shift and give you a feel for the correct time to shift. Every bike is different as far as what actual speed is the right time to shift. Yours being an '03, if any modifications were done, the book speeds could be off. Does yours have a tach? If it does, someone might be able to give you an rpm recommendation. Mine doesn't have one....

~

Title: Re: shifting speeds
Post by Routy on 09/23/09 at 15:00:53

Yeah, it kinda come natural to us riders. But if you ever feel the engine "chugging" (for lack of a better word) when letting out the clutch...while cranking the throttle, you shifted too quick,.....or at too low a speed. You should never feel the engine lugging or chugging ;)

On the other end, it perdy easy to hear or sense the engine winding up, and when its time to shift. And its not that critical either.

Title: Re: shifting speeds
Post by FreeSpirit on 09/23/09 at 15:05:39

Yes,you will learn as you practice/ride,by listening to the engine,but the manual is helpful to give a general idea,when youre first learning. :)

To be honest,I cant remember now what the manual says.

But I found it very helpful as a new rider to get and read the manual ,which has more info than just that in it about the bike.

I'm just trying to see things from a new rider standpoint.Other things we've learned with experience.

Edit:And Routy is right.....sorry Routy,I posted this before I read yours :)

Title: Re: shifting speeds
Post by Pabst 2006 on 09/23/09 at 18:38:35

Study the road speeds the engine will redline at (look at the data below), maybe pick a gear like 2nd or 3rd (2nd gear redlines at 55MPH and 3rd gear redlines at 75MPH), and accelerate to within 5MPH of that speed while remaining in that gear. It's just a test - you'll hear how the engine sounds and that should be your guide to deciding on a nice middle point between lugging the engine (around 2000 RPM or so I think?) and redline (6500RPM) of when to upshift.

The engine (on 5-speed models) will redline as follows:
1st = 35MPH
2nd = 55MPH
3rd = 75MPH
4th = 95MPH
5th = 100MPH

In layman's terms, I upshift when the engine begins to sound like a really pissed off lawn tractor. Downshift when my knees on the sides of the gas tank feel those too-low-of-a-speed vibrations and know it's lugging.

Hope it helps!

-Pabst

Title: Re: shifting speeds
Post by boofer on 09/23/09 at 18:50:41

I grew up on tractors, lawn moweres, hay trucks, anything with an engine appealed to me from age 12. I have come to believe there are some things that can't be taught. Just ride the thing in a low traffic area and listen, listen, listen. My cousins and uncles just stuck me behind the wheel and said, "Go." Of course, lawyers were just for selling land in those days. (No offense to lawyers, just to those looking to sue anyone they can.) I takes a long time to become comfortable with a machine. I jump on my daughter's ATV, run it up in first and grab the brake thinking I need to clutch it. IT HAS NO CLUTCH! Just ride, ride, ride, and concentrate on the road 90%, the bike 10%. It'll come to you. Boofer

Title: Re: shifting speeds
Post by verslagen1 on 09/23/09 at 18:52:51

Holy cow, a nube asks when to shift and you tell 'em to red line it?

very simply... shift out of 1st at 10mph, 2nd at 20, 3 at 30, and 4 at 40.

of course you can go faster than that.

Title: Re: shifting speeds
Post by Pabst 2006 on 09/23/09 at 19:33:21

I guess when I was a new rider with a new bike I wondered where in the entire usable range I was doing my shifts. I didn't trust the numbers in the manual as it was often lugging when I did my upshifts at the speeds Suzuki recommended to upshift. Felt like it was doing more harm than good. My MSF course I took last fall always mentioned, "Stay in the powerband of your engine." (for example: in order to be able to safely accelerate away from problem situations in traffic) Hence knowing just where the heck the powerband existed for a specific gear. Maybe my approach isn't for everybody. I dunno.

-Pabst

Title: Re: shifting speeds
Post by SavageDude on 09/23/09 at 19:57:44

584B5C5D424F494B401F2E0 wrote:

Holy cow, a nube asks when to shift and you tell 'em to red line it?

very simply... shift out of 1st at 10mph, 2nd at 20, 3 at 30, and 4 at 40.

of course you can go faster than that.

I second that!

Title: Re: shifting speeds
Post by Dj12midnit on 09/23/09 at 21:08:33

I would recommend not spending a lot of time looking at the speedo while riding. Learn to feel it. use the vibrations.

Title: Re: shifting speeds
Post by youzguyz on 09/24/09 at 02:26:23

Just as a joke, not as a recommendation:

1st - Shift up when the bike stops accelerating.
2nd - shift up when the mirrors begin to buzz.
3rd - shift up when bugs stop bouncing off your face and begin to splatter.
4th - shift up when your mouth suddenly fills with air and begins to function as an air scoop.
5th - shift up when you forget there is no sixth gear.

Title: Re: shifting speeds
Post by John_D on 09/24/09 at 02:41:48

606C6F7A7A6B7C0E0 wrote:

Since everyone else commented on the first 1/2 of the post, I'll help beat the second 1/2 to death. ;D
I've always understood "riding the clutch" to mean driving/riding along with your foot/hand resting on the clutch, and the clutch partially disengaged. This is indeed hard on the clutch.
What they probably were referring to in the MSF class (at least they did in mine) is to just leave it in first gear and hold the clutch down when at stop signs or lights. If it's fully disengaged, this doesn't hurt the clutch, and it leaves you with the ability to quickly get out of the way if you suddenly see a car grill coming up too fast in the mirror! :o

Oh, and just noticed you put that you're from Nebraska. Which part, if you don't mind telling us? I grew up outside a dinky little town in western Nebraska.

Title: Re: shifting speeds
Post by EJID on 09/24/09 at 07:24:51

796F757A6775797A000 wrote:

Love the bug comment ;D & tried to shift up from 5th many times without any luck :-?

Title: Re: shifting speeds
Post by babyhog on 09/24/09 at 07:30:12

I try shifting up from 5th just hoping that a 6th has appeared magically!!

~

Title: Re: shifting speeds
Post by Angie on 09/24/09 at 07:35:49

My problem with listening to the engine is my bike is so quiet, if there's a good cross wind I cant hear it. From reading some of these posts, I have confirmed a suspicion I've had about myself- I shift up too early. Alot of shifting is practice, getting a feel for your bike and how it handles.

Now, as for down shifting. Here is a tip that I picked up the hard way (which is how I learn most things). When letting out the clutch when down shifting, let it out gradually. Because if you are going to fast for the gear you just shifted down to - your bike will slow down rather quickly. If you are not prepaired for that, it can freak you out. 8-)

Title: Re: shifting speeds
Post by cursal on 09/24/09 at 08:05:22

4F5C4B4A55585E5C5708390 wrote:

Holy cow, a nube asks when to shift and you tell 'em to red line it?

very simply... shift out of 1st at 10mph, 2nd at 20, 3 at 30, and 4 at 40.

of course you can go faster than that.

This is about right.
1st gear is there just to get you moving.
2nd is the puttering gear
3rd gear feels most comfortable for getting around town (I wouldn't try to get to 75mph :o )
4th if you need to get going
5th you should probably be on the freeway or long stretch of open road

On Freeway trips (or those that last for hours) I use earplugs so Feeling the bike has become more important than hearing the bike.

Put in some earplugs and head to a big open lot and practice feeling when the bike should shift. ;)

Title: Re: shifting speeds
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/24/09 at 08:52:33

3C333A34382D6F6A65645D0 wrote:

With the clutch lever held in, give the gas a blip, then the engine & trans will be synched & not load the rear tire.
Or, just put pressure on the shifter, not trying to bend it, just light pressure, & roll off the throttle, Itll fall into the lower gear.
Or, If you are running hot, gas it, step down & itll be in a lower gear.

Clutchless shifting between 1st & 2nd, up or down, is not easy. Ive done it & IF I am playing Hotrod & really pumped on adrenaline, I can do it, but its just not worth it to me. The chances of lurching & jerking the bike hard or only partially making the shift & it popping out are just too high. All the others are so easy they require no thought,
To get started & not worry about lurching the drive around, just play around, shifting up & down, between 4th & 5th. That way the engine RPM only changes a little while the RPM on the rear wheel changes a lot, so it wont skid so easy as if you dont synchronize the tranny & engine & wheel speeds in a lower gear.

Title: Re: shifting speeds
Post by Skid Mark on 09/24/09 at 09:06:31

Like Justin I give it a blip of throttle too when down shifting. Shifts a lot smoother doing this. I don't even think about it any more. It just happens.. This shifting issue is definately an engine feel thing, and that is only aquired with lots of practice. Over time it become 2nd nature.

On the bright side, I couldn't think of a more enjoyable think to do that practice riding a motorcycle.

On 2nd thought maybe 1 ::)

Title: Re: shifting speeds
Post by matt on 09/24/09 at 10:38:36

The supertrapp i have helps indicate when to shift. I can actually hear and feel it it v the stock muffler.

Man, an di thought i was the only one who tries to get to 6th every now and then

Title: Re: shifting speeds
Post by JohnBoy on 09/24/09 at 12:43:44

Dude, your over thinking this. You will figure this out in the first couple of rides. When you are at 40mph in first gear or 20mph in fifth you will know it is time to change gears. Ride your bike, have fun...we will see you out there!
JB

Title: Re: shifting speeds
Post by Oldnewguy on 09/24/09 at 13:05:43

If it feels good, you are probably in the right gear!

Title: Re: shifting speeds
Post by voldigicam on 09/24/09 at 18:06:08

Wet clutch. Different from dry clutch. Slip as required in first for low speed, or rounding a corner in second when you didn't get to first.

MSF likes that clutch held in. Makes me tired. If I'm stuck at a light I hit the kill switch. If it's a long one, I'll turn the key. Plenty of time to get going again on the yellow for the other direction.

Title: Re: shifting speeds
Post by nbatter on 09/24/09 at 18:23:47

thanks for all the feedback -- much appreciated.

i am riding her a couple hours each day, i just wanted to make sure im not killing my bike with my ignorance, but the replies are very assuring. thanks again!