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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> New Bike Break-in and Recommendations? /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1253631344 Message started by adj_jaker on 09/22/09 at 07:55:43 |
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Title: New Bike Break-in and Recommendations? Post by adj_jaker on 09/22/09 at 07:55:43 Hey Everyone, I just bought a new S40 and loving it! This is my first new ride. Just wondering if there is anything I should know about these bikes or recommendations for them. Thanks! - Jaker ;) |
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Title: Re: New Bike Break-in and Recommendations? Post by Skid Mark on 09/22/09 at 09:40:40 Congrats on the new purchase. Follow the mfg breakin in the book so you don't screw up the warranty. I did and have had no issues to date. As far as reccommendations......... you just need to read the forums here. There's lots of reccommendations. It just depends what you want to do with your new steed. ;D |
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Title: Re: New Bike Break-in and Recommendations? Post by Stimpy on 09/22/09 at 11:32:53 Congrats! Now DROP THAT OIL, now; don't wait 600 miles for your first oil change, in a new bike it is widely recommended (by everyone except the dealership, I wonder why) that you change your oil once, maybe twice, before that 1st service; the 1st time before hitting 50 miles and the second about 200 miles after that, this will almost guaranty a looong healthy life for your engine and the time and $ investment is negligible. Do it your self, it's easy, you'll need a 17mm wrench, an oil pan and some oil (drain it HOT), done; this should not void your warranty at all, just don't tell them nothing ;) and leave your oil filter be for now. * Also get a magnetic oil plug, works wonders on a new bike http://www.magneticdrainplug.com/ ** In a hurry? well these guys have a fast break in method that has been proven by many of us to work well, I did it myself and engine is perfect after 3k miles, again, congratulations & good luck, RP. http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm ...just my 2 cents, C'ya |
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Title: Re: New Bike Break-in and Recommendations? Post by bill67 on 09/22/09 at 12:25:49 You do need it hit it some to seat the rings.just don't overheat it,Change the oil at the normal 600 miles. |
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Title: Re: New Bike Break-in and Recommendations? Post by Routy on 09/22/09 at 12:51:44 Quote: The best method is to alternate between short bursts of hard acceleration and deceleration. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- I'm just wondering what has changed. I have a long history of many automotive engine overhauls and shortblocks, in dealerships and repair shops, and not much has changed in 40 yrs,.... if anything. But cars did used to have breakin oil in them that would get drained early. Now days, no such thing. I had quite a few new bike in past years, and we always broke them in (if there really is such a thing) by riding the hell outta them. But having said that, I did "stick" a piston in a new 305 super hawk once ! :-[ Kinda scary at best ::) |
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Title: Re: New Bike Break-in and Recommendations? Post by mornhm on 09/22/09 at 13:04:59 I think the thought process on an "early" oil change is to clean out the debris from manufacturing, such as metal chips. That said, I've always followed the manufacturer's recommendations for engine break in along with what I thought was common sense - don't sit at one rpm for any period of time, don't get up into the upper rpm ranges until thing have time to be seated in. Currently I'm over 30K on my liter engine in my Connie, and it runs better now that it did right after break-in (or when new). |
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Title: Re: New Bike Break-in and Recommendations? Post by Buster on 04/07/12 at 05:18:26 Old thread - just checking to see if opinions have changed. 2 questions: I'm at 200 miles. Do I need to change oil, or what till 500-600 miles? I've followed the max mph-per-gear rule and have done so mainly through city traffic with very little highway time...would it be safe to go on a 150 highway run, with very few stops during the trip? Thanks. |
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Title: Re: New Bike Break-in and Recommendations? Post by Routy on 04/07/12 at 06:11:02 Simple,.....keep doin what you're doin,.....no matter what you're doin. While following the MFG recommendations (they aren't stupid) nothin you do in going to make it or break it. Just ride ! If the weather was HOT, I could caution against any long term WOT. |
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Title: Re: New Bike Break-in and Recommendations? Post by Gyrobob on 04/07/12 at 06:57:02 What do the manufacturers do when they first start an engine on a new vehicle? |
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Title: Re: New Bike Break-in and Recommendations? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/07/12 at 07:56:44 Ever seen how they break in a brand new rebuild on a AA fueler? A little C&P Now here comes something you might not have expected. If we use that 8441 average RPM number we can calculate that the crankshaft in this engine only rotated 823 times in the 5.85 seconds between the starting line and the finish line. Can you imagine spinning a shaft only 823 times & winching a dragster down a track a quarter of a mile? That would be a pretty tough job, cranking that winch,,now, do it in less than 6 seconds,, HP=Work/Time,, thems some POnies, Dad! |
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Title: Re: New Bike Break-in and Recommendations? Post by Buster on 04/07/12 at 08:04:09 Okay, I assume that I'll be fine. Thanks for the replies. BTW, do I need a drain plug washer when I change the oil? Mine has the 14mm wrench size hex bolt/plug (with magnet) - what size washer fits, if I need it? |
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Title: Re: New Bike Break-in and Recommendations? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/07/12 at 08:07:07 Its not a bad idea to have a spare washer hangin around for the day when your old one decides its gonna leak. But I dont change mine, Ive got a couple, Ive got a couple of O rings, for the filter & cover, but I dont change them, cuz they aint a leakin! |
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Title: Re: New Bike Break-in and Recommendations? Post by Buster on 04/07/12 at 08:40:55 445B5D5A4740714171495B571C2E0 wrote:
That's why I asked about the size...because, if the 2011's are supposed to have one, mine isn't there. Remember, mine is the S40 delivered with a dead battery/missing owners manual/missing tool kit. And I still don't have the tool kit. |
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Title: Re: New Bike Break-in and Recommendations? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/07/12 at 09:41:55 YOu need one, for sure, just haul the plug to the autoparts store & ask for a washer, specifically for oil pan applications,, You sure got a bad deal, man,, that bites,, seems like the dealership would have treated you better, |
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Title: Re: New Bike Break-in and Recommendations? Post by LANCER on 04/07/12 at 15:59:26 I use a copper washer; seals just fine have not worn it out yet |
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Title: Re: New Bike Break-in and Recommendations? Post by Buster on 04/08/12 at 03:44:17 Parts store had an Altrom brand washer. Supposed to be OEM style. http://partimages.genpt.com/largeimages/988601.jpg Surprised how clean drain plug magnet was at only 200 miles on motor. I figured there would be lots of metal on the plug, but almost no metal is what I found. Guess the Lucas break-in additive really works? ;) |
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Title: Re: New Bike Break-in and Recommendations? Post by Routy on 04/08/12 at 15:59:15 0F213839220F22292423284D0 wrote:
Don't misunderstand the purpose of a magnetic drain plug. They are used to collect any metal that may have been floating around inside the engine from day one. If the plug would ever collect any obvious metal that actually wore off of the engine parts during brake in....or any other time, I'm afraid you (your engine) could be in serious trouble, and would likely live a very short life. Not that the plug couldn't pickup chips off a tranny gear and the tranny still survive. I myself don't find them necessary because they don't pick up non ferros metal, which is the most likely to be floating around,.....but which is the least harmful too. |
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Title: Re: New Bike Break-in and Recommendations? Post by MMRanch on 04/08/12 at 23:19:58 I put a small round magnet inside the spring pushing on the oil filter. It allways has "particles" on it when I change it. Congradulations on the NEW bike. These bikes are the simple-est and funnest things on two wheels. :) |
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Title: Re: New Bike Break-in and Recommendations? Post by Buster on 04/09/12 at 03:10:51 534153414C5F505D561E0 wrote:
I wondered about a filter magnet since my factory drain plug magnet is so small, but a small magnet is better than no magnet at all. I think they're a good thing. I've seen GM trucks with OEM installed drain plug magnets and after 200,000 miles you can still wipe a tiny smear of "metal" off the plug when draining the oil. Can't be metal that was left in there when engine was first built. Not that it's going to double the life of the engine, but I figure any metal that the filter misses and the magnet collects is metal that won't be floating around and contaminating the oil for a few thousand miles until drained out. Suzuki decided to put a magnet in the drain plug, for some reason. And I agree with you about these being fun bikes. Going to ride mine 150-200 miles tomorrow...that should let me know if I need to invest in a Corbin seat or not. |
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Title: Re: New Bike Break-in and Recommendations? Post by Routy on 04/09/12 at 05:51:29 Forgetting that this is motorcycle engines and not automotive, there will be more metal in the oil because of the wet clutch. But we are still talking smears, not obvious particles. If anyone finds particles,......please tell me where they are comming from, other than from an engine that is disintigrating. :o |
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Title: Re: New Bike Break-in and Recommendations? Post by Buster on 04/09/12 at 14:56:17 242B312A36302321292730420 wrote:
Agreed. Normal wear metal that just puts a tiny bit of goo on a magnet is the good kind of wear - a 1/4" chunk of cam lobe wouldn't be good. Still don't want it running around loose, whatever it looks like - Doesn't make much sense to have metal contamination, if you can avoid it. About like saying I'm only going to change oil filter 1/3 as often as needed...because I haven't yet seen concrete proof that a little bit of extra dirt makes these engines die an early death. And besides all that, my magnetic plug came factory installed...I'm not about to throw it away for no good reason. ::) |
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Title: Re: New Bike Break-in and Recommendations? Post by Starlifter on 04/09/12 at 15:02:41 Be careful with the tires the first 100 miles or so. There is some kind of slick stuff on them to help them pop out of the mold when being manufactured. |
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Title: Re: New Bike Break-in and Recommendations? Post by Gyrobob on 04/10/12 at 11:28:12 Can anyone show me a study that verifies bearded magnets make engines last longer? |
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Title: Re: New Bike Break-in and Recommendations? Post by verslagen1 on 04/10/12 at 12:11:04 023C372A272A27450 wrote:
If that's your position... why run a filter at all? Studies have shown that particles of a certain size (no, I don't remember the size, but I'm thinking 15µ) exceed the boundary layer (something like 10µ) of oil imparting damage to engine parts. Common filter will only take out 20 to 40µ particles. So given all the crap flowing thru your oil, why would you complain about a one time buy vs. a maintenance buy that will extend the life of at least the filter? Bysides sucking out all ferris metal particles of all sizes? |
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Title: Re: New Bike Break-in and Recommendations? Post by Gyrobob on 04/10/12 at 19:08:09 243720213E3335373C63520 wrote:
If that's your position... why run a filter at all? Studies have shown that particles of a certain size (no, I don't remember the size, but I'm thinking 15µ) exceed the boundary layer (something like 10µ) of oil imparting damage to engine parts. Common filter will only take out 20 to 40µ particles. So given all the crap flowing thru your oil, why would you complain about a one time buy vs. a maintenance buy that will extend the life of at least the filter? Bysides sucking out all ferris metal particles of all sizes?[/quote] Jeezzz. No complaints! No opinions. All I did was ask a simple question. Are there any studies that show any improvement from using a magnet? |
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Title: Re: New Bike Break-in and Recommendations? Post by Oldfeller on 04/10/12 at 19:30:51 I am a magnet proponent, but to answer the question you asked ... No, there are no studies in a bike engine that say filtering all the minute particles out of the oil make a bike engine last any longer than a bike engine is expected to last. Such studies would be rebuild to rebuild type studies and nobody does that on bikes. But really now, how long is a bike expected to last? 10-20,000 miles? Bikes really generally don't last very long before their owners kill them by neglect. Savage owners expect their engines to last a lot longer than other small bike owners do and we tend to do some things to make that come to pass. There ARE studies on the big diesel engines in big trucks, locomotives & ships and such that show that fine particulate removal is very helpful keeping engine oil clean and useable much longer than normal -- and they do track ferrous contaminations, aluminum skirt contaminations, bearing metal contaminations, etc. etc. as their goal on these engines is to go as far as possible between major rebuilds. If the oil lasts longer, the engine lasts longer -- that is the expectation these guys run under as they can test and examine the oil fairly easily and frequently to predict the wear levels inside the engine. BUT, reality says the only plain bearing that we have in the Savage that would demonstratively benefit from better filtration is the aluminum cam bearings in the head. We kill the cam bearings by oil starvation and low idle speeds, so those bearings never live long enough to get eat up with them little ferrous bits. We do have piston skirts though, just like the big diesel engines do. And we do wear them out and get a case of the slaps at 30-40,000 miles. Could better filtration help here? Mebbe. You can save some money on filter changes with a supermagnet on your oil filter as you can run the filter for 2 years. Big deal -- that's really small potatoes compared to the cost of keeping the bike running with tires and insurance and gas and all. So, why do it? Just because we want to -- same reason as all the rest of the mods we do. ;) |
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Title: Re: New Bike Break-in and Recommendations? Post by Boule’tard on 04/10/12 at 19:41:13 Well if ya want to, I suppose we can split the thread into Schmagnet War II. I don't need a study to tell me that particles abrading against engine parts of like hardness (or lesser hardness.. aluminum) causes them to wear out sooner by at least some small amount. We acknowledge that the benefit of running schmagnets might well be trivial and less than the statistical error inherent to a scientific study. As a gyrocopter pilot, you run engines a certain number of hours and rebuild them before they are in danger of failing, right? How's about running one cycle with schmagnets and one without, and tell US how little benefit there is. Weigh the parts before and after 1000 hours flight time (or whatever the life is), stick one of Oldfeller's donut magnets on the oil filter and tell us the difference. Frankly I was surprised when I read that consumer reports article where they did just that.. ran oil for 3000 and 6000 miles, weighed the pistons, rings, etc. before and after... and found little difference. Maybe you can do the same to debunk the schmagnets. |
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Title: Re: New Bike Break-in and Recommendations? Post by Oldfeller on 04/10/12 at 19:43:32 Do auto manufacturers use smagnets? Yep, in transmissions. Not in engines -- go figure. |
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Title: Re: New Bike Break-in and Recommendations? Post by Boule’tard on 04/10/12 at 19:49:07 Husqvarna uses a magnetized drain plug.. stock.. for their engine/transmission oil. |
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Title: Re: New Bike Break-in and Recommendations? Post by verslagen1 on 04/10/12 at 20:53:15 5F52485158495C4F593D0 wrote:
6k miles? betcha they didn't even find .001" wear. that'll amount to a couple of feathers. :o |
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Title: Re: New Bike Break-in and Recommendations? Post by Boule’tard on 04/10/12 at 21:03:34 594A5D5C434E484A411E2F0 wrote:
I forget the details. It may have been some multiple of 6,000 miles that was a significant part of the life of the engine. A little Google-Fu turns up http://www.triumphspitfire.com/Oiltest.html 60,000 miles. |
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Title: Re: New Bike Break-in and Recommendations? Post by Buster on 04/11/12 at 01:37:44 587B7371727B7B7265170 wrote:
Very few do, I assume. Limited amount of GM models I've seen were factory installed. Wonder what year the Savage/S40 started using a factory installed magnetic plug? |
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Title: Re: New Bike Break-in and Recommendations? Post by Routy on 04/11/12 at 07:19:21 7C5F5755565F5F5641330 wrote:
I have overhauled many a (automotive) manual trannys and rear ends that had pcs of teeth laying in the bottom. Unlike engines, I see a reason for a mag plug in all gear boxes. If I can about face a little,.....considering that the Savage engine is a gear box that is subject to abuse , I can't say that there is not reason to run a mag plug. |
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Title: Re: New Bike Break-in and Recommendations? Post by Gyrobob on 04/11/12 at 13:10:12 The only problems I can see with using a schmagnet: 1. You have to use money to get one. 2. There have been isolated incidents of the magnet coming off inside the cranckcase. Aside from those pretty small problems, I would think most folks would be all aglow inside pondering how the metallic clouds in the oil are all wandering over to the schmagnet and sticking to it,.. creating a ferritic beard to be wiped off at the next oil change,... patting themselves on the back about all the danger they spared their trusty steed. |
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