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Message started by Ebikerman on 09/21/09 at 18:26:20

Title: Down Shifting Problem on S40.
Post by Ebikerman on 09/21/09 at 18:26:20

Sometimes after engine is well warmed up, it becomes hard to downshift certain gears. Maybe only one. It is like the spring that lifts the shifter back up so you can down shift again is too weak. At times I can press harder and it will go down. I can always release the clutch a little and the down shift is immediate. Last, but also works is to stop in high gear, then roll backwards with clutch disingaged as you down shift. That works beautifully. Several bikes I have owned have done this including a Harley Sportster. This S40 seems to be the worst. It does not do this when the engine is not yet warmed up. It gets worse when the oil thins. I use Mobile 1 synthetic 20W-50 V-Twin oil. Anyone have any ideas as what to do? Thanks, Dan

Title: Re: Down Shifting Problem on S40.
Post by JustPassinThru on 09/21/09 at 19:43:44

Not this exactly. But I've found, when the machine warms up, the shifter often goes dead on downshifts.

You step on it, and it doesn't shift. Can't shift up or down. Letting out the clutch a little gives a >snap!< and the lower gear pops in. Often the next gear down does the same...that's a 5-4 and 4-3 shift.

By the same token, I frequently don't get that satisfying snick! in upshifts, although the gear goes in. Sometimes if I hold the shift lever up, it will snick when power starts to apply; sometimes not.

This is the third metric bike I had that was this way; the other two were Yamahas. The first one was used; and I wrote it off to wear. The second one was new to me, and I passed it off as my damage from sloppy shifting.

Third time, on a nearly-new Suzuki...something's gotta be up with the basic rachet design.... >:(

Title: Re: Down Shifting Problem on S40.
Post by SavageDude on 09/21/09 at 19:44:29

How new is your bike? I brought mine when it's was spanking new; so I had the same problem of downshifting. As more mileage racking up, she is smooth as silk now or maybe I know how to please her ;D

Title: Re: Down Shifting Problem on S40.
Post by voldigicam on 09/21/09 at 20:02:58

Mine is still notchy as all getout at 12,000 miles. Reminds me of my BMW car - took almost 100,000 miles to get the trans broken in.

1 - 2 and 2 -1 are touchy. 2 - 3 and 3 - 4 get lots of use and are easy either direction. 4 - 5 varies from no feel effortless to fail to go in. 5 - 4 is fine.

Switching to synthetic oil greatly improved the shifting.

I've not had a metric bike trans apart, so I don't have the visualization as precise as I would like.

Title: Re: Down Shifting Problem on S40.
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/21/09 at 21:41:18

Give it a little gas & step down, or jusr roll off the throttle & step down, either way, itll shift.
2nd to 1st? use tha clutch

Title: Re: Down Shifting Problem on S40.
Post by 12Bravo on 09/22/09 at 06:32:57

Mine does the same thing at times too. It also sometimes wont go into first from neutral. I let the clutch out and then pull it back in and then my bike shifts just fine. As far as shifting from 4th to 5th, I think that most of our bikes have that issue. Sometimes it shifts fine, other times it doesn't feel like it shifts but does. Switching to synthetic oil does seem to help.

Title: Re: Down Shifting Problem on S40.
Post by JustPassinThru on 09/22/09 at 18:12:57

40726572747657667776130 wrote:

How new is your bike? I brought mine when it's was spanking new; so I had the same problem of downshifting. As more mileage racking up, she is smooth as silk now or maybe I know how to please her ;D

Who, me?

It had 1300-odd miles on the clock when I bought it; four years old. It had been female-owned and apparently neglected...the muffler was drilled or hammered out with a punch; it had been mostly kept outdoors in the sun. (Faded kill switch and speedo needle; and dry rot on the tires.)

But it shifted smooth on a test ride; and it STILL shifts smooth...cold.

Gonna change the oil soon; it'll get Mobil 1 V-twin; hopefully it will get better or at least not worse.

Title: Re: Down Shifting Problem on S40.
Post by Ebikerman on 09/23/09 at 14:40:57

The bike is an '06 with 4000+ miles. I bought it used. Except for the shifting, it runs and looks about new. It has synthetic Mobile 1 V-Twin 20W-50 oil in it. (fresh change) Thanks everyone for all ihe information. Hope there is more coming....Dan

Title: Re: Down Shifting Problem on S40.
Post by Ebikerman on 09/23/09 at 18:59:44

Might add that my motorcycle mechanic indy tried to explain some of this shifting problem to me. He said that there is a shift drum with flats and a star like wheel, both of which can be polished to make shifting easier. He said that some part rests on the flats, I suppose for each gear. This part is sometimes hard to move off the flat. I asked if this polishing would make it jump out of gear and he said no. He said some of the racer's do this process to their race bikes....Dan

Title: Re: Down Shifting Problem on S40.
Post by verslagen1 on 09/23/09 at 20:47:32

I must say... you guys must ride in silk socks.
You really feel all that crap?
I just apply a little pressure in the direction I want to go, clutch it or not, twist the grip and she's in like flinn.
I think you're trying to be too touchy/feely.
Mannup, shiftit, wheelie optional.

Title: Re: Down Shifting Problem on S40.
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/23/09 at 20:57:51

No kidding.Pull away from a stop & see how fast you can get to 25 MPH, see how quick you can get into 2nd, when 40 is about to run under the needle, put some pressure on the shifter, slam the throttle shut & try to make your toes touch your knee. Gas it. Repeat till you run out of gears.

Title: Re: Down Shifting Problem on S40.
Post by Ebikerman on 09/24/09 at 10:10:24

Justin, why would I want to do that? That sounds like a maniac's method. I intend to enjoy riding my bike, not drag racing at every start. Upshifts are OK. It is down shifting that concerns me. Thanks for your input anyway....Dan

Title: Re: Down Shifting Problem on S40.
Post by Ebikerman on 09/24/09 at 10:23:17

verslagen1, people are different. Some ride rougher than others. I am not a rough rider and do not shift without the clutch. I am not a sissy foot shifter either and probably most of the others are not as well. Shifting without the clutch is asking for trouble. I am a long time rider, off and on since 1950 and find the Suzuki 650 one of the most difficult downshifters I have owned in all these years. Your input and interest in the problem some of us have described in this thread is appreciated even though you have claimed us to be too sensitive....Dan

Title: Re: Down Shifting Problem on S40.
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/24/09 at 10:25:58

42454E4C42554A4649270 wrote:

Because once you can do that, youll be able to do it the soft & easy way. You can shift up & down w/o the clutch, sitting straight up, totally relaxed & into neutral, rolling up to a stop & never touch the clutch.
Eliminates cable wear, eliminates clutch wear, & gives a sense of accomplishment.

Title: Re: Down Shifting Problem on S40.
Post by Ebikerman on 09/24/09 at 10:41:20

Keep it up and you will run into trouble. The parts you mention as saving are relatively cheap. The dogs on the gears are not and you are most likely rounding them off a little at a time until you reach the point that your bike will not stay in gear. Then the price of a complete engine teardown and gear replacement will be facing you. If you are very skilled and careful, you might syncronize each shift and avoid the costly repair mentioned. Otherwise, your nifty quick shift method is slowly putting your trans in danger. Why do you think Suzuki gave us a clutch, just to put it into first gear? Note how small the trans is on the Suziki 650. Could not be much beef in there. Best of luck...Dan

Title: Re: Down Shifting Problem on S40.
Post by verslagen1 on 09/24/09 at 12:06:32

Don't get me wrong EB, my style matches the moment. Clutchless shifting is more or less limited to getting to freeway speeds from a dead stop. But I enjoy a good rumble pop shift as well as the next guy. And don't have the nack for downshifting. But being able to do it, got me home one night when my clutch went out. And does save your clutch hand when riding in traffic.

Title: Re: Down Shifting Problem on S40.
Post by Ebikerman on 09/24/09 at 19:00:15

I had to shift without the clutch in my Chevy Love when it's clutch went out many years ago. Helps to know how.

Title: Re: Down Shifting Problem on S40.
Post by voldigicam on 09/24/09 at 20:14:39

My maternal grandfather started out on bikes before WWII. Moved through souping up Allisons and other aircraft power plants, then into race cars. He could drive.

His shifting technique in a car was the most gentle I've seen. He'd just whisper from gear to gear. While this sounds slow, he was also more than quick enough for quite spirited work. I'm sure he was just as gentle and precise on motorbikes.

That's how I tend to shift - with as little force and as careful matching as possible. It works. I have a BMW with about 300,000 miles on the original clutch, and a Ford Ranger that got a clutch just because it was out at 175,000 miles - with 80% of the disk live left.

I can shift a car without a clutch. I just don't.

On Suzi, I find that the the trans is pretty light, things spin up and down pretty easy. So a quick shift is cleaner.

I understand the polishing of touching clutch components. That makes sense. I can feel the stick sometimes. I found the change to synthetic oil greatly helped the shifting.

Title: Re: Down Shifting Problem on S40.
Post by Ebikerman on 09/25/09 at 05:51:22

I had a brother that could speed shift unlike anything I had ever seen back in the 60's. It was amazing how fast he could go from one gear to another. Now, he used the clutch is why his super fast syncronization was so unbelieveable. For me, I enjoy shifting, even using the clutch on all my bikes. I feel I would be missing part of the biking experience if I just syncronized and kicked it up or down. Might as well have an automatic, almost. Thats just me....Dan