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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> OEM Air Cleaner /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1252762544 Message started by Routy on 09/12/09 at 06:35:44 |
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Title: OEM Air Cleaner Post by Routy on 09/12/09 at 06:35:44 Just what is it about the stock air filter that makes for the modifications I read about. I don't see anything that could/should be improved. Rich |
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Title: Re: OEM Air Cleaner Post by bill67 on 09/12/09 at 06:50:00 I don't see a reason either Stock works good. |
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Title: Re: OEM Air Cleaner Post by Serowbot on 09/12/09 at 07:41:45 Less restriction, better breathing.... better breathing, more power,... goes hand in hand with less restrictive muffler and carb rejet. |
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Title: Re: OEM Air Cleaner Post by Gort on 09/12/09 at 07:59:04 Less restriction also means more dirt gets into your engine. Read this: http://duramax-diesel.com/spicer/index.htm |
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Title: Re: OEM Air Cleaner Post by bill67 on 09/12/09 at 08:03:18 You can get more high end power but then you lose low end power,So if you drag at the strip then the high end power works. If you want to pull strong from 40 mph in high gear you only need the jetting. |
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Title: Re: OEM Air Cleaner Post by Boule’tard on 09/12/09 at 08:48:40 PM me if you want a perfectly good stock air filter for 5 bucks. And hey, per the owner's manual you can use it indefinitely by blowing it out with compressed air! :D Don't do that. PS. Far be it for me to contradict Gort ;D and there's a grain of truth to it, but the less restriction = more dirt is a crude rule of thumb that ignores the filter area and type. |
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Title: Re: OEM Air Cleaner Post by Gort on 09/12/09 at 10:37:13 Part of what air filters retain are petroleum contaminants as are found in industrial air pollution, exhaust from other tailpipes, etc. These oil based contaminants cannot be blown out of any filter with an air pressure hose. They must be removed with the appropriate chemistry, which is why you cannot re-use paper air filters, and which is why KN tells you to use a filter oil otherwise their filter will be ruined. As for less filter restriction= more dirt being a crude rule of thumb, that is an unsupported assumption. Here is yet another test showing that the more air that gets in, the more dirt also. http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/airfilter/airtest1.htm In addition, it is not possible to determine the effectiveness of an air filter's ability to retain dirt by just looking to see how much dirt it has captured. Their are far too many variables to consider, such as the environment in which you use it, contaminants that have passed through the filter without leaving stains on the filter, amount of time the filter has been used and so on. This is why filters are tested in labs using controlled conditions and very expensive equipment. Home testing is a guess, at best. |
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Title: Re: OEM Air Cleaner Post by Boule’tard on 09/12/09 at 19:52:46 4370766A7770020 wrote:
I didn't think of that, but it seems like another good reason not to reuse paper.. so bizarre that it's recommended in the owner's manual! I mean, even back in high school auto mechanics we were told DO NOT blow out and reuse a paper filter. But the rationale was different.. the airstream will destroy the uniformity of the paper fibers and give you clumps where no air passes and larger holes where dirt flies right through. Quote:
Yes but Bob forgot to correct for difference in filter area among the brands :P Imagine a small filter made out of that blue fiberglass stuff from a cheap air conditioner filter, you know the kind you can see through and almost put your pinky through. Now think of a much larger filter made of a really dense paper like an AC Delco car filter. The two filters could have the same restriction, that is, the same flow rate at a given pressure drop, but I guarantee you the larger and tighter filter is going to catch more dirt per cubic foot of air. I realize the area of different filters that can work on a Savage isn't going to vary by a huge amount, but wanted to make sure the point was understood. |
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Title: Re: OEM Air Cleaner Post by Oldfeller on 09/13/09 at 02:09:04 What causes you to think about it is the first time you need to replace it and they hit you up for approaching $50 to do so. That's $50 every couple of years ... ================== Is there anything wrong with the stock Suzuki filter? No, it is balanced with the rest of the Suzuki system, it is relatively restrictive and it does a good job of stopping dirt for a fair period of several years. Improving on it is a matter of opinion and trade off. Those who want more hp are going to want to rebalance the engine with less exhaust restriction and less intake restriction (with changes to carburetor to accomodate this increased air flow rebalance). A moderate rebalance for a new rider is to use the stock muffler and increase the air flow through the intake system, this can be accommodated without a rejet through white spacer mod and air screw tuning. I rode like this for years and was quite happy with it. Then I ground my muffler cover plate mounting bracket in half and knocked the welds on my muffler mount loose as a result of that, so I chose to replace the stock muffler with a Dyna and started on the chain of pure hp modifications. The bike is not easier to live with, it makes more noise but it does seem to get out of its own way faster. Mine isn't a virgin any more so I am continuing on down the hp path by slow degrees, taking my time and doing it slowly keeping my eyes open. The hp path is a fiddler's path -- some of the road bumps on the way are increased oil consumption and an eventual case of piston slap noise and various motor rebuilds, some of which are needed and some of which are hobby driven. Serenity ran a stockish motor for 56,000 miles with no real trouble with a stockish set up, so please let's not try to say the hp route is the "trouble free" route -- it isn't. On the other end of the spectrum is REX, who seems to be apart more than he is together. But that's his nature as an experimental test bed. Where you fall in that spectrum tends to change with time. I was a stocker type person, but as my stock bits broke I went cheap and handy on the replacement bits which has gradually put me on the hp path. |
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Title: Re: OEM Air Cleaner Post by dasch on 09/13/09 at 04:37:10 100% agree with oldfeller. You like it stock - by all means, keep it stock. I could add, altering a motorcycle (or anything else, per se) is almost never a matter of NEED. It's a matter of WANT. Challenge, imagination, competitive spirit, and all that crap. I started with "oh, I love this bike, but it's kinda too quiet for that big single". And it opened a can of worms :D |
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Title: Re: OEM Air Cleaner Post by 4carbcorvair on 09/13/09 at 06:28:40 393C2E3E355D0 wrote:
Same here. :-X |
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Title: Re: OEM Air Cleaner Post by Routy on 09/13/09 at 06:39:17 Thanks for the insite to the stock system. The reason I asked the question was because I don't notice any rich fuel condition under WOT, nor any stumble when backing off. I did drill the exhaust a little, which of course make it seem faster,....and if not faster, a little louder. It sounds better if nothing else,.....and I don't like the sound of a "woosie" bike, as my son calls them. The only "stock bike" problem that I can see/feel, is the lean fuel condition in the low speed (1/4 throttle) range, so I plan on doing the spacer...needle mod one of these days. Except for that, I think the bike runs perfect, sounds good, and under WOT, it'll scare me just the way it is ! :o |
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Title: Re: OEM Air Cleaner Post by jabman on 09/13/09 at 07:20:56 i just desnorkled and left the cover of the airbox with a a stock air filter. the bikes sounds and rides very different. for the better of course. |
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Title: Re: OEM Air Cleaner Post by JohnBoy on 09/16/09 at 16:35:57 Jabman, you got pictures you could share? |
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Title: Re: OEM Air Cleaner Post by jabman on 09/17/09 at 00:25:30 sure, what do you need? 1,pop of the seat 2,grab rubber snorkel that goes to the airbox which is under the seat 3, pull upwards and it comes out. i also removed the side cover of my airbox, where you get to the filter 1 remove seat 2 remove right metal panel 3 remove plastic air box cover 4 insure filter is in place 5 put back together i pulled the idle screw out 1/2 a turn to compensate since doing this i have got a lot more induction noise, and a much better overall sound, i was disappointed with the dyna muffler untill i did this, now im very happy with it but today i intend on pulling the whole air box and installing a round k&n filter i hope it doesn't mess the sound up! |
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Title: Re: OEM Air Cleaner Post by dasch on 09/17/09 at 01:47:08 It won't. You get a nice, high pitch inhale sound. |
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Title: Re: OEM Air Cleaner Post by jabman on 09/17/09 at 11:16:28 that's weird I got lots of good noise i guess you will have to give it a go its only takes a few mins and its easy to put back |
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Title: Re: OEM Air Cleaner Post by PTRider on 09/18/09 at 10:24:11 A stock-type HiFlo air filter is about $15 available (probably by special order) at most non-Suzuki shops...and at Suzuki shops if you insist that they get it for you. I think they are high quality. I'm not a K&N fan, and I don't think they do anything good for an engine except eliminate the need to buy replacement filters. Instead, you get the messy job of cleaning (and waiting for it to dry) and re-oiling the filter.* Between Suzuki, HiFlo, and K&N, I choose HiFlo. Changing the length and/or diameter of the intake will change the power characteristics of the engine. It might be better, or it might make things worse. Try your changes and see what you like. Usually shorter and bigger diameter helps top end power and hurts low and mid range power...only if done right. A change to the intake might require a jetting change. *Yes, I've owned K&N and foam air filters for cars & trucks, felt zero difference in performance, had a dirty downstream side of the air box with the K&N, and had the dubious pleasure of cleaning and re-oiling them. |
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Title: Re: OEM Air Cleaner Post by boofer on 09/18/09 at 20:35:31 303F253E222437353D3324560 wrote:
I had 1999 Dodge Ram PU with 318 and 90,000miles. Highway mileage was terrible at 13 mpg. I added a Kool Blue air filter ($45) Mobil One synthetic oil ($22) generic catalytic converter ($189 installed). I did these over a period of a year with a little improvement each time. Dodge recalled OE converter and paid me for my generic one later. You can be plugged up before, in, or after the engine, but the results are the same. I am happy with my near stock Savage, but my truck mileage went to an honest 16.3 mpg highway. BTW sold the truck to pay medical bills with enought left over to buy my first motorcycle in 30 years----the Savage. Boofer |
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Title: Re: OEM Air Cleaner Post by Routy on 09/18/09 at 22:09:06 If I was WOT a lot, perhaps the stock air filter could be improved upon,....even tho I feel/hear no evidence of running rich at WOT. So being as most my riding is at 1/4 - 1/3 throttle, I doubt there would be anything to gain in the filter end. But, I just did the spacer mod to 1/2 spacer,...we'll see what happens when I get it back together. |
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Title: Re: OEM Air Cleaner Post by tran2112 on 09/20/09 at 07:27:59 282F30630 wrote:
I attempted to look at HiFlo website to find a air filter to fit my 2009 without any luck. This is what I found: http://www.hiflofiltro.com/53.0.html?&L=0&id=23 |
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Title: Re: OEM Air Cleaner Post by FreeSpirit on 09/20/09 at 08:14:16 I bought the stock type HiFlo air filter at Motorcycle Superstore....ordered it online....took maybe 3 days to get it. It was right at $20 shipped. Looks and fits perfect. SKU-118837 (the one I ordered) It is listed under Suzuki ls650 or Savage or S40,cant remember but it is the right one. Customer Service,to me,was excellent. (Its actually spelled- Hiflofiltro-so you had that right.Dont know why its not on their list at their website :-/ |
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Title: Re: OEM Air Cleaner Post by JohnBoy on 09/21/09 at 04:53:10 Stock is fine...if that is what you like. I read about this bike for over a year before I bought one. One of the biggest selling points was all the user friendly mods you could make. I look at this bike as the 32 Duce Coupe of motorcycles. You can do almost anything to it, and you can do it cheap! There were VW bugs sold by the millions. Some people turned them in to Baja sand rails and I saw one made into an airplane. This didn't stop them from being great cars just the way they were. If you don't believe that changing intake, exhaust, and jetting is for you don't do it. If you don't believe it will make a difference...go borrow one that has been modified and see for yourself. |
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