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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> need carb cleaning advice /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1252761532 Message started by Bryan on 09/12/09 at 06:18:51 |
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Title: need carb cleaning advice Post by Bryan on 09/12/09 at 06:18:51 I had fuel leaking from my carburetor vent hoses, and was told that I needed to clean my carburetor, so I did. I read up on the carburetor cleanup guide by SavageWahine in the technical reference section, and followed her instructions as well as the Clymer instructions. It went pretty well, and the bike ran well for a week or two, but it's leaking fuel again. Anyone got any advice on what I can improve? I followed the directions to a T. I took it all apart, let everything non-rubber soak for over 30 minutes (the recommended time), blew it all out with compressed air, wiped it down with a "lint-free" cloth. Heck, it didn't even look that dirty when I took it apart in the first place; it's only got 2500 miles on it. This is pretty frustrating, cause I just wanna ride... |
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Title: Re: need carb cleaning advice Post by bill67 on 09/12/09 at 06:52:15 Best is to not take carb apart and use Sea-Foam in you gas,It cleans and lubes you carb. |
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Title: Re: need carb cleaning advice Post by Serowbot on 09/12/09 at 07:36:35 Could be your petcock... Here's how to check,... http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1251932429 |
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Title: Re: need carb cleaning advice Post by verslagen1 on 09/12/09 at 07:43:26 Sounds like your float is either sticking alittle or you need a new float valve. Sticking float can be delt with by a percussive adjustment (rap on the side of the carb with a plastic handle) Really don't know the permanet fix other that to take it apart again and see what's up. when you took it apart did the tip of the valve have a groove in it? I have one like that with no problem but if it's more than that like a crack running thru the sealling surface than's its time to replace. (agh, you guys are way off base this time) |
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Title: Re: need carb cleaning advice Post by Serowbot on 09/12/09 at 07:53:32 It's one or the other... Float needle/seat is sticking or dirty, or petcock is leaking,... Could be either,... the petcock is easier to check... |
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Title: Re: need carb cleaning advice Post by dasch on 09/12/09 at 08:47:12 float valve must hold, regardless of the petcock. Old bikes had no vacuum thingy.. gees, I keep mine on pri all the time (lazy, careless, I know) since I realised I had a leaking diaphragm. The point is - float must hold it. |
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Title: Re: need carb cleaning advice Post by Serowbot on 09/12/09 at 09:08:13 dasch,... just so you know,... if the petcock diaphragm ruptures, gas will flow down through the vac line and flood everything below the gas tank,...the float needle will not stop it,... it's not in the circuit... |
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Title: Re: need carb cleaning advice Post by dasch on 09/12/09 at 09:27:18 I do know... mine leaked. But Bryan's got fuel coming out of carb vent hoses. And that's float valve. |
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Title: Re: need carb cleaning advice Post by verslagen1 on 09/12/09 at 09:32:57 dasch is right and not just cause his explaination supports mine. |
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Title: Re: need carb cleaning advice Post by Serowbot on 09/12/09 at 09:51:33 263522233C3137353E61500 wrote:
Sure.... ;D |
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Title: Re: need carb cleaning advice Post by dasch on 09/12/09 at 09:55:48 Well, I've done my part. Now I get that $20 discount on verslavy we talked about?? ;) |
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Title: Re: need carb cleaning advice Post by Serowbot on 09/12/09 at 09:57:58 484D5F4F442C0 wrote:
O.K.,... in that case, I agree too!... :-? |
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Title: Re: need carb cleaning advice Post by boofer on 09/12/09 at 20:05:55 A rare occurence, but float itself could possibly have hole causing it to sink. Was more common in years past, but I agree with using Seafoam first (As directed on can). Boofer |
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Title: Re: need carb cleaning advice Post by Bryan on 09/15/09 at 20:45:21 I took the bottom of the carb off tonight without taking it off the bike, took the float off and the needle valve body and blew some compressed air through it. Also checked the float valve adjustment, just cause I was there. I've crossed out a bunch of stuff (I think--see below). Could it be that the float adjustment needs to be fixed? I did adjust it somewhat when I took the carb apart; the distance from the bottom of the float to the bottom of the carb as detailed in the Clymer was too much. But that wouldn't make sense, cause it ran better after I did that (until it started leaking gas again); before I adjusted it, it ran too lean, and I had to give it gas just to keep it running. And that wouldn't explain why it ran great for the first week or so after I took the carb apart. And unless if I'm measuring the wrong thing, it's perfectly within the limits. Did I maybe just miss something? Maybe some tiny passageway in the carb is clogged and I neglected to blow air through it when I had it apart? The float valve needle and needle valve body seemed pretty clean and in good condition to me, but the thing's still leaking fuel. Here's what happens: I start it with the choke halfway out, after about 30 seconds put choke in, let it run a little to warm up, it dies on its own. I restart it, but it won't start without me giving it gas, so I do. Next thing I know, gas is pouring out of the vent hoses. Does it matter if I'm on an incline or if I'm letting it idle while it's leaning on the kickstand? Maybe a dumb question, but I'm still learning. 2B2025257F7E490 wrote:
That was what I did when I first got the bike, cause it was running super rough and backfiring as soon as I gave it gas. Sea Foam fixed that, but then it started leaking fuel after it would warm up, which is why I took the carb apart the first time. 2D3B2C31293C312A5E0 wrote:
I checked the vacuum line right after it started leaking fuel, and it was free of gas. 514255544B4640424916270 wrote:
I tried tapping on the side of it with a wrench. Didn't help. What if the space where the float pivots is too tight? That would make it stick, right? What else would make it stick, and what else would fix it? 2A392E2F303D3B39326D5C0 wrote:
Nope, the valve looked nearly perfect from what I could tell. 58471E584A5E1E290 wrote:
I don't think it has a hole in it. I tossed it in the can of carb cleaner with everything else, and it stayed afloat the whole time, and didn't have any liquid in it. |
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Title: Re: need carb cleaning advice Post by FreeSpirit on 09/15/09 at 20:54:03 It runs and idles while on the kickstand? |
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Title: Re: need carb cleaning advice Post by Serowbot on 09/15/09 at 22:00:22 You've checked everything...... but it's still happening... O.K.,... you've missed something. It has to be one of only two things... only two ways gas can get in. So start with this. Pull the petcock vacuum line from the carb and block the tube with a golf tee or a screw or something,... cap the vacuum tap on the carb with a plug or something... set your petcock to prime. Be sure to set it to prime!... Now,.. it can't be the petcock,... that's bypassed. Like this... http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt82/serowbot/plug.jpg?t=1251936339 If it still won't run right, and is still leaking,... it is the float system... either the float don't float, or is set wrong,... or the needle or the needle seat is damaged or dirty. Leave the petcock bypassed 'till you get the carb straightened out. If the float floats in a cup of gas, by a new needle and seat and replace them. There's only a couple of things it can be... you'll get it... |
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Title: Re: need carb cleaning advice Post by verslagen1 on 09/15/09 at 22:40:42 Here's an alternate way to check the float level... get a clear fuel line, on the bottom of the carb you might have a drain nipple, plug the line in there, hold the line up next to the carb, open the drain with the petcock to prime the fuel level should come up to the top of the bowl. right where the gasket is. |
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Title: Re: need carb cleaning advice Post by Bryan on 09/16/09 at 18:48:09 Okay, I'm pretty sure it's not the float or float needle. I took the carb off tonite, and the float level was fine. I held the float up and poured a little bit of gas into the carb, and no gas came out until I let go of the float, so the float needle is fine. So... I started it up, choke 1/2 out. After 30 seconds, pushed the choke in. It ran a little bit, no more than a couple minutes, and started sputtering and died. Next I set the petcock to prime, and started it. It took a few tries, but once it started, it ran and stayed running. So is it my petcock? Even though there's no fuel in the vacuum line? Is it safe to run the bike on prime without plugging the vacuum line? If it's the petcock, is there any way to fix it without doing the manual conversion? I don't wanna replace it with a manual petcock either; I'm way too forgetful. So is my only option to replace the petcock? There's gotta be a way to fix it... I saw an OEM petcock online for $70. Is that a normal price? I'd try to find a used one, but if this one's already giving me trouble, with only 2500 miles on it, I don't know if it'd make any sense to put a used petcock which would likely have more miles on it... Advice? |
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Title: Re: need carb cleaning advice Post by Serowbot on 09/16/09 at 19:32:56 running on prime,... you will have no reserve. and you will still leak... You should at least pull the petcock and see what's up with it... it sounds like the vacuum diaphragm is slightly torn. Not enough to leak into the vacuum line on it's own, but leaking when the engine vacuum is applied. You do need to do something more than just run on prime,... the leak will only get worse... Only options I know of,.. convert to manual, replace with stock,... go to Raptor. I recommend the Raptor, it's just a better design all 'round and way cheaper than a used stocker. I have one,... I never shut it off unless there's a problem or I'm pullin' the tank. At the least,... block the vacuum line as shown in the pic above... that will stop any vacuum or gas leak... then you can run on prime, but you will have no reserve,... and on position will work as a partial shut-off, but may leak due to the torn diaphragm... This is a half-a$$ sorta' fix, that will get you down the road for a while. The stock Suzuki petcock is crap.... |
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Title: Re: need carb cleaning advice Post by Bryan on 09/16/09 at 21:36:09 3620372A32272A31450 wrote:
What if the reason it was leaking in the first place was because I was flooding it? I mean, it would idle, then die, and so I would start it while giving it lots of gas, and keep giving it gas to keep it running. Could it be possible that nothing was ever wrong with the float or float needle, and it was only leaking fuel because I was giving it way too much gas to keep it running (due to a malfunctioning petcock), forcing fuel through the needle valve, flooding the float bowl, and forcing it out of the vent tubes? 3620372A32272A31450 wrote:
So if I take the petcock apart and there's a problem with it, I should be able to see what's causing it? 3620372A32272A31450 wrote:
So if I get a Raptor, it's okay to leave it on all the time? It won't cause fuel to leak into the crankcase or anything? For some reason I feel like I've read something warning about that... 3620372A32272A31450 wrote:
So if I do run on prime, I need to block the vacuum line? I can't just put it on prime and ride it around as is? 3620372A32272A31450 wrote:
If the stock petcock's such a bad design, I wonder why they went with it in the first place. I mean, it's more complicated than the kind like the Raptors, so it would seem like they could have saved money by going with a simpler design, like something that doesn't use vacuum. Do most bikes have petcocks like the Raptors, or vacuum-operated petcocks like ours? |
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Title: Re: need carb cleaning advice Post by verslagen1 on 09/16/09 at 21:46:26 Err, to many fn quotes. "What if the reason it was leaking in the first place was because I was flooding it? " You can't flood it like a car, there's no accel pump. All you can do is give it more air. "So if I take the petcock apart and there's a problem with it, I should be able to see what's causing it?" Maybe, might be nothing wrong, could be blocked with corossion. that you could fix. personally, i like the vac operated petcock. "So if I do run on prime, I need to block the vacuum line? I can't just put it on prime and ride it around as is?" need to block the vacuum port on the carb. i'd put a catch bottle on the other to see if any gas appears. |
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Title: Re: need carb cleaning advice Post by Serowbot on 09/16/09 at 21:56:32 Wow!... lot a questions!... ;D 1. No,... the float needle would have stopped it from going through the vent tubes. No matter what you did,... the float bowl system is only fed by gravity. Fuel was leaking from above the float needle through the vacuum line and filling the vent tubes from above.... 2. Yes,... you will see the damage... the place to look is on the back of the petcock, 4 screws hold the plate on... 3. It's not recommended, but in the dozen or so bikes I've owned over several decades I've never had a problem... your float could possibly stick and gas would leak... never happened to me yet... Many other people I know do the same... back in the 60's and earlier, bikes tended to leak more often and shutting off was much more important. BMW's were famous leaker's... 4. Block the vacuum line.... 5. Probably liability, safety, CYA (cover your a**), reasons... why do they put a warning "do not drink" on a can of Drano?... If I were you,... I'd go with the Raptor,... makes pullin' the tank easier too... Two friends here swapped theirs out, before they ever even had a problem. Simple, is elegant... and more reliable... about $30.00 and you never have to worry again. See if your local shop will match online price and you'll save shipping. Ours did... ;) |
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Title: Re: need carb cleaning advice Post by Bryan on 09/17/09 at 09:46:38 Okay, no more "fn" quotes, but I do have a couple more "fn" questions :D Other than the possibility that the petcock is leaking fuel into the vacuum line, is there any other reason why I should block the vacuum line when running the bike on prime? Will I have to make modifications to the bike in order to fit the Raptor petcock on, other than plug the vacuum port on the carb? (i.e. will I have to drill holes in the gas tank, etc.) I'm gonna go ahead and take the petcock apart, look at it, and run the bike on prime with a catch bottle coming from the vac line of the petcock to see if it catches anything. |
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Title: Re: need carb cleaning advice Post by verslagen1 on 09/17/09 at 10:05:04 No No cool 8-) |
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Title: Re: need carb cleaning advice Post by Serowbot on 09/17/09 at 10:38:57 Possibility of leaking gas?... Most important is that you block the vacuum tap on the carb to prevent the engine from sucking air... a catch bottle may not show gas leaking, because there will be no engine vacuum drawing from the tube... so, not a useful test... a better test is to suck on the vac line... but, it's no fun... suck, but don't swallow... Raptor is a better fit than the stock, direct bolt up... just block the vacuum port... I used a carefully sized screw, rubber caps will rot away every 6 months or so.. |
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Title: Re: need carb cleaning advice Post by dasch on 09/17/09 at 12:28:25 Suck, but don't swallow??? C'mon, Bot, sure a technically inclined bunch like us can provide a better advice!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D |
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Title: Re: need carb cleaning advice Post by PhilM on 09/17/09 at 13:37:54 Quick question.. What is this? http://www2.b3ta.com/host/creative/23179/1253219181/carb2.jpg |
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Title: Re: need carb cleaning advice Post by Serowbot on 09/17/09 at 14:47:07 073F3E3B1A570 wrote:
Idle mix screw..... it's under a brass plug on a new bike... |
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Title: Re: need carb cleaning advice Post by Serowbot on 09/17/09 at 14:49:08 3A3F2D3D365E0 wrote:
toke on it, but don't inhale?.... :-? |
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Title: Re: need carb cleaning advice Post by matt on 09/17/09 at 16:22:38 now your just wastin gas |
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Title: Re: need carb cleaning advice Post by Serowbot on 09/17/09 at 16:43:59 4A5C4B564E5B564D390 wrote:
toke on it, but don't inhale?.... :-?[/quote] I got it,... I got it!.... Apply negative pressure orally,... but do not ingest... :-? |
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Title: Re: need carb cleaning advice Post by dasch on 09/17/09 at 22:17:40 There ya go. That's the spirit!! ;) |
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Title: Re: need carb cleaning advice Post by Bryan on 09/21/09 at 09:16:29 Petcock seems fine, it's not leaking any more, but now it dies sometimes if the petcock is ON. Runs fine on PRI. Any ideas? |
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Title: Re: need carb cleaning advice Post by Bryan on 04/21/10 at 15:30:32 finally got my problem solved; it was the petcock all along. more details here: http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1253755332/12#12 |
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