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Message started by desithug on 09/04/09 at 14:53:55

Title: Problem with starting
Post by desithug on 09/04/09 at 14:53:55

I got a 1987 suzuki savage 650 a couple of weeks back. it ran alright the first week and then wouldnt start up one night. I thought I might have kept the key in the park position and that might have drained the battery. So I jump started it, and it ran well for another couple of days. However the problem soon returned. I jumped it again and it ran alright for a couple of times before the problem came back.
I initially thought it was a problem with the battery. I checked the voltage and at standing it gives ~ 12V.
I also did the tests as given on Clymer (pg 210-211) for Charging system output test and charging system no load test.
For the first test at high rpms the voltage was around 12.5V and for the next test we did get 100V on each of the terminals of the alternator, which suggests its not a problem with the alternator. any suggestions, ideas will be highly appreciated.
RUDy

Title: Re: Problem with starting
Post by verslagen1 on 09/04/09 at 15:15:13

Take the battery to autozone or the like and get it load tested.

other possibility is a short causing extra load, but not enough to pop the fuse.

Title: Re: Problem with starting
Post by desithug on 09/05/09 at 18:00:53

I took the battery to autozone and it did need charging. i brought it back charged and put it back. however it behaves like earlier. the lights come on, the neutral indicator turns on, but the motorcycle will not start. however the lights do start to flicker when i am trying to get the engine started.
any more ideas?

Title: Re: Problem with starting
Post by boofer on 09/06/09 at 00:27:19

desithug,
I would take out the plug and test it for spark. If it is good, I would then try to crank bike on "prime" fuelcock setting. If that failed, I would yank carb off and clean it. I messed around with mine about two weeks with intermittent power loss and surging. Cleaned carb and replaced vacuum hose to fuelcock. Not sure which or if both were needed, but now it runs. You don't have extra lights, radio, Christmas tree, or other stuff lowering cranking volts/amps? Boofer

Title: Re: Problem with starting
Post by jonnyb021104 on 09/06/09 at 12:28:12

to me it seems like there is still not enough cca's in the battery find a battery analyzer and test that if you can.

Title: Re: Problem with starting
Post by verslagen1 on 09/06/09 at 16:52:39

7677617B667A6775120 wrote:

Do you mean it won't turn over or it won't start, 2 different things.
If not turning over, take a plastic handled screwdriver and rap the fender near the starter solenoid, it may be stuck. Usually sticks on but who knows.

Title: Re: Problem with starting
Post by desithug on 09/06/09 at 19:54:12

latest update:

So I thought the battery might be bad, and went and got a new battery. however that doesnt seem to solve the problem. the motorcycle wont even start on jumping anymore. I have taken it apart, pretty much. I am planning to look at the spark plug tomorrow. I am a complete newbie and am following clymer.

however it would be great to hear from people who are more experienced.

also what do you mean by turn over?

Title: Re: Problem with starting
Post by verslagen1 on 09/06/09 at 20:03:24

does the starter turn the engine?

Title: Re: Problem with starting
Post by desithug on 09/07/09 at 17:03:12

took off the spark plug. it was completely covered with carbon. changed and put on a new one. Now it works. It looks like the guy whom i had bought it from might have used a wrongly spaced spark plug and when it was new it could get enough spark to get the motorcycle to start but it got progressively worse.

however i have solved the problem for now, I have a few unanswered questions.
the voltage when the motorcycle is standing is 11.8V however even when i rev it up in only goes upto 12.3V. from what i have read it should be going upto around 14V. if there is a possible short, what would be the way to test it?

Rudy

Title: Re: Problem with starting
Post by verslagen1 on 09/07/09 at 17:57:15

check the connector to the rectifier.

if they are loose it will drop the voltage.

Title: Re: Problem with starting
Post by desithug on 09/10/09 at 11:32:34

I think I have a combination of problems.

I was riding it yesterday and it stalled off. It looks like everytime I am trying to slow down by letting go off the throttle the engine shuts off. ALso the battery was completely drained.

Next weekend I plan to clean the carb and check the petcock.
does anyone think that there might be other things that I need to look at?

Title: Re: Problem with starting
Post by verslagen1 on 09/10/09 at 12:28:46

turn up the idle speed abit, sounds like you're idling too slow.

Title: Re: Problem with starting
Post by iMc on 09/10/09 at 13:17:52

Sounds a lot like the problem I was having with my 98 (except that mine started popping fuses). When I had a mechanic take a look at it, he told me my stator and rectifier were in pretty poor shape.

Anyone have a clue how he could test those two things?

Title: Re: Problem with starting
Post by verslagen1 on 09/10/09 at 13:27:48

check the tect sect.

Title: Re: Problem with starting
Post by boofer on 09/10/09 at 23:53:26

desithug,
If I understand correctly, it is running but won't idle. Just bought a well used Honda TRX300 ATV that cranks perfectly, but slowly lost rpms at idle until it died. Even used idle screw to run it pretty high, but still slowly died. Put in 2 oz. of seafoam in full 3.3 gallon tank and told my daughter to run it. Two hours later it idled fine and after a week it still cranks and idles great. I have heard of people on here using way too much Seafoam. Read and follow the directions. 1 to 2 oz. per gallon is plenty, I believe. Boofer

Title: Re: Problem with starting
Post by dasch on 09/11/09 at 02:50:37

Engine won't run without at least minimally charged battery. My guess is, when rpm drop to idle, battery voltage drops under 11, engine dies.

My 5 cents: you have 100V AC between all 3 combinations of yellow wires? That's good. ;) Stator is tested by measuring AC output (ENGINE RUNNING) between Y1-Y2, Y2-Y3 and Y1-Y3 (All three need to read some 60V at no load, and.... hmmm I forgot how much with load :-[ ) and Ohm resistance (ENGINE OFF) between Y1-GND, Y2-GND and Y3-GND (must be infinite)
Once you past that, you still only get 12.3 DC on high rpm? Not good. :(
Manual states voltage has to be 14.5 at battery terminals at 5000rpm (SCREEEEAAAAM) Hmmm, I say it should be around 14-14.5V at any rpm above 2000. Mine does, there's no reason why all other's wouldn't. Either you have a 2V voltage drop (bad connection) on the rectifier jack (take apart, scrape, clean, reconnect), or your Reg/Rect unit died.