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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Rotella motor oil /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1251376499 Message started by Jimmer on 08/27/09 at 05:34:59 |
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Title: Rotella motor oil Post by Jimmer on 08/27/09 at 05:34:59 Has anyone ever tried the Rotella 15w40 synthetic oil in their bike? What is your opinion on it's use. |
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Title: Re: Rotella motor oil Post by Serowbot on 08/27/09 at 05:59:17 Oh boy!...... ::) You said the "O" word!..... :-? O.K.,... Some people swear by it.... Some people think it's a sin against nature..... I just switched to it. But I've been known to use regular old 10w-40 car oil too.... Another sin against nature... Let the war begin..... Lock'n"Load boys.......... ;D |
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Title: Re: Rotella motor oil Post by Skid Mark on 08/27/09 at 06:07:53 Fire one!!!!!! I've been using Rotella T 15-40 triple protection for the past month with no ill effects. Search the forum and you will find more info on this than Carter has pills. I did and decided on using the Rotella. |
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Title: Re: Rotella motor oil Post by bill67 on 08/27/09 at 06:40:32 696F766569323D040 wrote:
Did you every use and oil with ill effects,Like you used it and your motor didn't blow up so it must be good. |
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Title: Re: Rotella motor oil Post by Jimmer on 08/27/09 at 06:47:41 Like some I to use Rotella 15w40 with no problem. My question was has anyone used the synthetic blend. |
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Title: Re: Rotella motor oil Post by Skid Mark on 08/27/09 at 06:56:12 Yea. It was called Luby Lube. It was recycled oil. Used it in old clunkers that didn't matter if they blew up. :) Just saying the rotella works fine for me. |
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Title: Re: Rotella motor oil Post by Oldfeller on 08/27/09 at 07:09:13 I am familiar with Rotella T 15w40 triple protection dino oil in a white jug and I am familiar with Rotella Synthetic 5w40 in a blue jug. Do we have a new player from the Shell Rotella family? |
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Title: Re: Rotella motor oil Post by PTRider on 08/27/09 at 07:13:05 Rotella can't be any good. Oldfeller used it, and his bike is junk (http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1251251220)--Rotella didn't protect it at all. No syn blend in Shell's Rotella T line up. |
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Title: Re: Rotella motor oil Post by Jimmer on 08/27/09 at 07:15:55 Thanks for the info I'll just stay with the 15w40. |
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Title: Re: Rotella motor oil Post by sakara on 08/27/09 at 08:10:22 ha, PT. :) |
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Title: Re: Rotella motor oil Post by PTRider on 08/27/09 at 12:29:39 Jimmer Several are using the Shell Rotella T synthetic 5W-40 with good results. It will likely remain good for more miles than the conventional 15W-40. The syn also gets moving better around the engine when cold. |
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Title: Re: Rotella motor oil Post by bill67 on 08/27/09 at 13:28:05 Whats the good results? |
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Title: Re: Rotella motor oil Post by verslagen1 on 08/27/09 at 13:35:51 3C37323268695E0 wrote:
Did you every use and oil with ill effects,Like you used it and your motor didn't blow up so it must be good.[/quote] No bill no, don't drink the oil, put it in the engine. |
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Title: Re: Rotella motor oil Post by bill67 on 08/27/09 at 16:01:02 Look up Wal-marts home brand oil it says its really good oil. |
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Title: Re: Rotella motor oil Post by Routy on 08/27/09 at 16:18:34 I forget which Syn Castrol is supposed to be far superiour to any of the Rotella, but I put it in the bike. That was 2 weeks ago, and I've had fair results w/ it,...fair only because I didn't see a 20% increase in gas milage that they said. Maybe I'll drain it, and get my money back. But like they said, the clutch ain't slippin w/ this expensive oil ! But then, I don't remember it slippin before I changed the oil either. I think I'm confused,........these oil threads always confuse me. ;D Rich |
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Title: Re: Rotella motor oil Post by Serowbot on 08/27/09 at 16:45:15 Don't use the synthetic for cooking,... you won't leave the house for a week... :-? |
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Title: Re: Rotella motor oil Post by PTRider on 08/27/09 at 20:12:04 202F352E323427252D2334460 wrote:
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Title: Re: Rotella motor oil Post by Dj12midnit on 08/27/09 at 21:00:48 wait your suppose to put oil in it... |
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Title: Re: Rotella motor oil Post by Educatedredneck on 08/27/09 at 23:57:47 Yep, every now and then. You can even use the Shell Rotella oil if you want to. ;) |
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Title: Re: Rotella motor oil Post by Oldfeller on 08/28/09 at 06:54:40 Perspective counts for a lot in these oil threads -- we have too long of a history of having fun arguing about oil for the extended "oil war history" not to enter into it. Bill likes his Klotz oil and swears by it -- I only used Klotz in my two stroke Yamaha 400 cafe racer back in the day as it cut down on exhaust smoke being the very first synthetic two stroke bike oil that would meter correctly through the Yammie's separate tank automatic lube system. It is very expensive oil though. More so than Mobil 1 V twin or Amisol. Mind you, any oil will "work OK" if you don't care about our Savage's long term wear issues. These long term wear issues gather around our flat cam tappets and cam chains and, because of our wet clutches, seem to be best addressed by ZDDP additive in the over 12 parts per million level (which is a pretty high level that does not exist any more in modern car oils because of type 2 catalytic converters that are used in modern cars are "coated" by ZDDP and are rendered less effective) Over the road diesel oils still have the ZDDP levels we need. So does Mobil 1 V Twin ($12 a quart) and Amisol motorcycle 20-50) Sorry Bill, I can't speak for Klotz -- I don't know enough about it any more as I haven't touched a can in well over a decade. If you are on a budget, Rotella white jug 15w40 Triple Protection has what you need at only $3 a quart. Change it twice a year and you are good to go. If you want extra overheating the head insurance, buy the blue jug synthetic Rotella 5w40. Some would say this is overkill, but you can leave it in your bike for a full year if you run a super magnet on your oil filter. The super magnet cost $14 but you get payback in a few years due to the lowered cost of oil filters that you will see with the one year change frequency. So far, a super magnet, EMCO oil filters, Rotella Syn 5w40 and a one year oil change frequency yields the lowest cost, least troublesome complete oil maintenance system found for the Savage that meets all the ZDDP and clutch requirements that our peculiar living antique flat tappet valve train system has laid upon us. Not that Bill or Charon will ever agree to any part of this -- they are veteran oil warriors that will never yield or say die on any point given above. It is against their religion as proper oil warriors. |
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Title: Re: Rotella motor oil Post by Jimmer on 08/28/09 at 07:01:47 Did not want to rekindle the oil wars. Just had a simple question. Glad I could stimulate the brain thrust with in this group. |
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Title: Re: Rotella motor oil Post by bill67 on 08/28/09 at 08:47:35 Klotz synthetic has been around as long as any synthetic oil and longer than most.Amsoil doesn't test it against their own oil like they do a lot of other oils.There must be a reason they don't test it.I would say they have tested it,thats why they don't show it in their reports. |
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Title: Re: Rotella motor oil Post by verslagen1 on 08/28/09 at 10:26:58 Doesn't Klotz do any testing? Or do they expect others to tell them they are better than they are? |
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Title: Re: Rotella motor oil Post by bill67 on 08/28/09 at 13:58:09 Klotz don't have to rag on other oil companies 8-) |
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Title: Re: Rotella motor oil Post by Serowbot on 08/28/09 at 14:05:23 Nuthin' against the product,.... but Klotz (clot's)... is an unfortunate name for a lubricant... :-? Leakey would be bad too.... :-? |
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Title: Re: Rotella motor oil Post by verslagen1 on 08/28/09 at 14:44:15 How about "Knot oil", would really have you wondering. |
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Title: Re: Rotella motor oil Post by verslagen1 on 08/28/09 at 14:46:28 43484D4D1716210 wrote:
So if they don't even test their own oil, how do you know it's worth a sh!t? |
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Title: Re: Rotella motor oil Post by JohnBoy on 08/28/09 at 14:53:30 "Because it cost more!!!" |
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Title: Re: Rotella motor oil Post by PTRider on 08/28/09 at 15:04:10 I've never seen Klotz oil offered on the West Coast. Oil blenders probably do testing, but the testing that shows real differences is tough to explain to people who are not in the industry. Tests that are easy to explain are often meaningless...like Amsoil's 4-ball wear test that does not relate to conditions inside a crankcase and does relate to gear oil & grease. (I think that Amsoil makes good products that are over priced and over hyped.) I you want to "make" your own oil, you just need to buy pure base oil from a refiner and a package of additives from one of the additive suppliers--Lubrizol and others. Stir well. Market well. If you want to blend a superior oil, buy superior ingredients, hire really a sharp, inventive tribologist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tribology) and chemist, and test to see if they actually did put together a superior product. |
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Title: Re: Rotella motor oil Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/28/09 at 15:20:38 When I was 10 or 11, my G-paw had a country store. Feed store, bait store, gas pumps, you know.. Well, he bought a display case of oil. Had about 20 quarts I guess. LOW priced stuff, no one would touch it. He picked it up & set it in a back corner for about 6 months,Hauled it out, dusted it off, jacked the price up & it sold out in a month... People have been told " You get what you pay for" until they believe it. Truth is, you'll pay for what you get, & then some. |
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Title: Re: Rotella motor oil Post by verslagen1 on 08/28/09 at 15:22:28 Amsoil is about the same price as Mobil1 vtwin oil. So is it also overpriced and hyped? |
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Title: Re: Rotella motor oil Post by Oldfeller on 08/28/09 at 15:59:47 See Verslagen and Justin playing "twist the knife" -- a time honored dirty pool oil warrior's technique. A further purely fictional example of dirty pool oil war techniques follows .... ================== Klotz was faced with a problem in the late 70's -- how to stay in business and get rid of this big oil tanker full of synthetic base stock we have laying around since all the two stroke street bikes have been outlawed by EPA and folks have quit buying our two stroke oil. Huh, we have us a good brand name and some people trust us -- let's sell out this tank load of stuff as "improved" four stroke crankcase oil and raise the price per quart 150% and just keep on mentioning the fact that nobody will test their oil against our oil in their little faky funky ball bearing wear spot tests. Customers will assume our stuff is better than their stuff instead of the awful truth, that nobody ever even thought to test our two stroke oil for use in a four stroke type of engine use test. We'll get rid of it all and go out of business before anybody catches on to us. ==================== Now, none of us would actually DO anything like that in an oil war, now would they? Surely not. ;D |
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Title: Re: Rotella motor oil Post by bill67 on 08/28/09 at 17:16:09 I tried some of that Rotella diesel oil in my lawnmower,I was half done with the lawn and the motor seized up.I told my neighbor what I used he said you dummy that lawnmower don't have a diesel motor. |
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Title: Re: Rotella motor oil Post by ero4444 on 08/28/09 at 17:50:36 jeez it doesn't go in the gas tank come on fess up |
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Title: Re: Rotella motor oil Post by verslagen1 on 08/28/09 at 18:08:35 76555D5F5C55555C4B390 wrote:
Now you're just pissin' in the pool. :P |
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Title: Re: Rotella motor oil Post by PTRider on 08/28/09 at 22:30:41 22312627383533313A65540 wrote:
I'd say that both are overpriced, but both are very good products. I disagree with Amsoil's hype in their marketing system, their promotion of greatly extended oil drain intervals, and their warranty that has exclusions that would trip up almost any claim. |
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Title: Re: Rotella motor oil Post by verslagen1 on 08/28/09 at 23:14:18 regarding syn only... mobil1 and amsoil ~$10 royal purple for $16 motorex for $16 silkolene for $13 pj1 goldfire is $9 maxima is $13 given these prices (no I didn't do an exhaustive search) and your response PT... all syn is overpriced. So what syn is worth it's price, where do I get it and how much? Don't forget, I need 20w50. |
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Title: Re: Rotella motor oil Post by Educatedredneck on 08/28/09 at 23:19:14 Well, I'm with Oldfeller, I'm using Shell Rotella T. It's cheap, I can get it when I want to, and my Savage likes it. And, I'm not leaking any of it on the ground, or on the bike, or on ME! Yes, I got the head plug fixed up real good this time. :) |
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Title: Re: Rotella motor oil Post by verslagen1 on 08/28/09 at 23:58:29 I did rig up a temp gage and hooked it up to my pressure port. on 90° days it's up to 190 on 100° days it's up to 200, maybe 210 and then it crapped out so it's back to zero again. I also used an ir temp meter and confirmed those readings. I need 20w50 cause the 5w40 is cooking off. |
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Title: Re: Rotella motor oil Post by Oldfeller on 08/29/09 at 02:09:36 Just a mild comment on how low it sometimes goes in the heat of an oil war. At least my comment was truthfully portrayed as completely fictional whereas Bill likes to throw in his dead fish with a straight face. =========== Klotz is actually very good, somewhat overly expensive niche oil. They were the VERY BEST two stroke oil maker in the day and I ran the stuff and will give a personal testimony for it -- it lubricated an RD 400 engine that ran so hot and fast that it melted out the top of a piston. And I rode the bike home because the lube never gave up and the melted lump of aluminum kept sliding up and down the bore (which wasn't hurt, BTW). Klotz is good oil, just right pricy. And there ain't really much difference between synthetic two stroke and synthetic four stroke oil -- syn base oil and additives in both cases, just some difference in the additives, most likely. ============ Verslagen, "boiling off a syn oil" isn't really very likely. Go to the turbo sites and turbo manufacturer sites and turbo Corvette sites and ask them how hot do the bearings in a turbo get and what sort of oil they recommend for those engines (the older style turbo units shared oil pressure with the engine oil gallery). Remember, Mobil 1 syn oil was originally developed for jet aircraft engines and the engineers put some in their cars as a whimsy and it worked so well for so long they convinced their bosses to market it as car oil. And how hot do jet engine bearings get? Now you could have extra loss past rings, seals and various leak positions over time because the syn oil stays loose and doesn't thicken up over time like dino does. We all remember draining a thick sluggy stream of dino out of car a time or two, complete with lumps of even thicker stuff that made the stream change shape momentarily as it dwindled down. You had to always drain your oil hot so as to get it to come out good, remember? Syn you could drain cold as it just flows out. No thick, no lumps, never any clotting left in the pan. Out she runs .... ============ So yes, you could lose more syn compared to dino in the same loose engine, especially if you are comparing a syn 5w40 to 20w50. But you are losing like a quart a week ..... over half your oil exits the party every month and you are functionally changing out your oil pretty much completely every 2 months. You could use a dino oil with no issues at that rate of oil exchange and never even get it very dirty. |
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Title: Re: Rotella motor oil Post by bill67 on 08/29/09 at 03:33:07 170413120D0006040F50610 wrote:
klotz $11.75 20w50 under harley at dennis kirk Caution your en 8-)gine might run to cool |
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Title: Re: Rotella motor oil Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/29/09 at 06:44:48 2C3335322F2819291921333F74460 wrote:
I wasnt trying to say anything about the tested & proven high priced stuff. Im just saying that a low price, lower than normal, indicates a low quality. A high price? We Hope we are getting what we pay for, but we might be buying a low quality product with the price of a high quality product. The reason I dont run a pricier oil is twofold. Mine leaks some, at the clutch actuator/ side cover o-ring & I think the Rotella-T 15/40 is providing sufficient protection to keep the engine/tranny happy & healthy for enough years that I wont care if its still running. |
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Title: Re: Rotella motor oil Post by bill67 on 08/29/09 at 07:35:50 Justin it your bike if you want to take a chance its ok |
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Title: Re: Rotella motor oil Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/29/09 at 07:37:36 I think its a safe bet, because a diesel engine suffers higher heat & greater stresses than this little 650 does & they run millions of miles. |
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Title: Re: Rotella motor oil Post by verslagen1 on 08/29/09 at 11:37:35 2B2025257F7E490 wrote:
klotz $11.75 20w50 under harley at dennis kirk Caution your en 8-)gine might run to cool[/quote] Thanks bill for proving my point, all syn is about $10plus So with Mobil1 and Amsoil being the low end of the scale... How can they be overpriced and still be highly rated as syn M/C oil? BTW... leak fixed, usage rate down but still adding |
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Title: Re: Rotella motor oil Post by Oldfeller on 08/29/09 at 17:04:05 All syn is $10 plus a quart -- All syn is overpriced and overhyped --- Rotella Syn at Wally costs $19 a gallon or about $5 a quart. That's $10 bucks a whole oil change (or $10 bucks for a year's worth of oil if you run a super magnet on the filter and don't have a really leaky bike.) This is one perfectly good synthetic oil that doesn't break your wallet. |
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Title: Re: Rotella motor oil Post by bill67 on 08/29/09 at 17:38:23 Looks like with Rotella I would save a $1 a month. |
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Title: Re: Rotella motor oil Post by Oldfeller on 08/30/09 at 02:14:33 Bill, Bill ..... spin doctoring and sinking down to using Obama math -- I expected better from you. ============ Klotz thought the internet costs you $11 a quart plus $8.75 in shipping cost to actually get it to you. Lets see, that's $30.75 for an oil change (we are going to assume we both use an oil filter, so the filter is a wash for this analysis). I use a half gallon of the Rotella Syn that I pick up from the local Walmart at $19.00 a gallon which I will round up to costing me $10 for oil change for ease of calc. Let's see, thats $20 difference for the first change. Or, if you want to say it another way I can do my oil portion of the change two extra times for a total of three times for the same money you drop on your Klotz oil change. 3 years worth of oil only changes vs one year of oil change for the same money, plus I get the additives that the Savage's cam lobes and tappets and chain need and maybe you don't (ain't heard nothing about Klotz carrying any extra ZDDP in its mix and ain't gonna bother to look neither). Or, if I save $20 each oil change I'd save a theoretical $60 over the three changes. Any way you want to say it, the advantage goes cleanly to the Rotella Syn oil. I liked Klotz two stroke oil back in the day because it didn't smoke near as bad as dino two stroke did, but I find the current 4 stroke stuff just way too pricey for my blood. ========== BTW, I generously assumed you kept a magnet on your oil filer and kept your oil in the case for a full year like I do -- but you don't, do you? You change your oil at least twice a year, don't you? So, the cost advantage for Rotella Syn is really over twice as much as said above, isn't it? ::) (a little bit of twistie the 'ol knife, combined with a retro drop in technique -- these oil wars are endlessly entertaining, aren't they?) |
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Title: Re: Rotella motor oil Post by bill67 on 08/30/09 at 05:13:30 With taxes it it would be$1.50 a month more for klotz,You do have drive to get your oil,my is put on my door step. So maybe the costs is more like $.75 per month more for racing oil. |
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Title: Re: Rotella motor oil Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/30/09 at 05:17:56 Pssst, hey Bill, he rides to get the erl, so its not a big expense AND that expense is offset, by grinning on the trip. |
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Title: Re: Rotella motor oil Post by voldigicam on 08/31/09 at 05:16:49 Went from standard Rotella to synthetic in the blue can. Engine is quieter. Clutch & dogs work better. Engine sounds and feels as if it revs up more easily. First tank I got 59 mpg, versus the long-term 50 mpg on the regular Rotella. I'm surprised. Will see whether this keeps going, the better mileage and so on. I don't really understand the 5-40 designation. Really is quieter. The shifting difference is remarkable. |
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Title: Re: Rotella motor oil Post by Oldfeller on 08/31/09 at 05:48:55 The 5w40 designation means Rotella Syn doesn't change thickness very much when it gets cold or gets hot. It is "fully warmed up" from the get go as far as how it first circulates in a cold engine. It moves quicker to lube your cam journal bearings and tranny cross shafts as our puny oil pump can move it more effectively. =============== You are the second or third person to say the tranny shifts better compared to previous oils. Keep track of that mileage thing, that is interesting. |
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Title: Re: Rotella motor oil Post by bill67 on 08/31/09 at 05:53:32 Synthetic makes the engine quieter and trans shift better,To me thats prove of being slipper,Makes the forks slider easier too. |
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Title: Re: Rotella motor oil Post by 4carbcorvair on 08/31/09 at 06:03:01 With a new car, it is recomended NOT to switch over to a syn to at least 3,000 miles. What would be recomended for our 650's? I have about 1,800 miles on mine. Syn are definately recomended with Turbo's. Turbo Corvair owners really try for the diesel syn. Engine temps on these cars can run up around 450 degrees on a turbo car along with being flat tappet cams. Take that temp and shut the engine off, the oil around the turbo does not become happy. |
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Title: Re: Rotella motor oil Post by bill67 on 08/31/09 at 06:04:48 I went 1200 on mine I think bikes break in faster. |
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Title: Re: Rotella motor oil Post by Oldfeller on 08/31/09 at 06:11:28 Turbo shut down cooking dino based oils into a solid has been long documented among the turbo crowd as the number one reason of turbo failure. Turbos run exhaust pipe hot and when you shut them off they take the oil in circulation in their bearings up to over 350 degrees F in some instances. The only oil that can stand this sort of "heat soak attack" at turbo shut down is a syn oil -- you instantly void the warranty on a turbo equipped Corvette if you run a dino or a dino/syn blend even once. |
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Title: Re: Rotella motor oil Post by Oldfeller on 08/31/09 at 06:19:00 Total engine break in on bikes is well documented by Kawasaki and others that specify a break in procedure -- apparently break in on a bike takes place in the first 600 miles using dino oil. Piston rings will "first seat" in the first 50 miles and will fully seat by the first 200 miles. The plateau grind on the cylinder walls and the finish on all the tranny shafts take longer to reach their steady state. I would not switch to syn oil until you had 1,000 miles on a bike, just to be on the safe side as the rapid wear in is greatly slowed down or stopped by the superior syn oils. |
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Title: Re: Rotella motor oil Post by PTRider on 08/31/09 at 07:22:49 332A29212C222C262428450 wrote:
The "40" part means that is meets certain viscosity specs at 100°C. The "5W" part means that its viscosity at -30°C is no greater than the spec allows. "15W" meets its thicker spec at -20°C. (From the SAE J300 specs.) The "synthetic" part means that the viscosity index is >120*, the saturates are equal or greater than 90%**, and sulfur is <0.3%. In practical terms, it all means that the oil isn't as thick when cold, doesn't thin as much when very hot, and lives longer before it oxidizes in service. *Viscosity index is a numerical scale relating to the difference in viscosity between 40°C and 100°C. **Saturates means that oxygen atoms in the oil molecule have been replaced by hydrogen atoms by a hydrogenation (http://www.chevron.com/products/sitelets/baseoils/isodewax.aspx) process. http://www.infineum.com/information/api_tables/SAE%20Viscosity%20Grades%20For%20Engine%20Oils%20-%202008.pdf |
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Title: Re: Rotella motor oil Post by voldigicam on 08/31/09 at 18:29:58 The cold start is most nice now. How long can I realistically run this oil? I will get a supermagnet for the filter nice idea. A short ride to work, then back. Shifts better dead cold than ever with dino oil. Has me thinking I will keep this bike - feels more snappy. Shifts adequately. And the Corbin seat availability gives me hope! Yesterday finally did repeated hard WOT runs in a safe spot - nice little surge on backing off a bit. So the 155 main went in today. Still starts, but no chance to get out on the road! Will be fun monitoring mileage. I have good records on dino oil commuting, longer trips, mountains. 47 to 53 mpg. The sudden light fillup startled me - came out at 59.3 mpg. Big enough to give me a start! Admittedly, little start and stop, but country curvy with accel/decel, some highway fast, and the WOT tests. So I wasn't looking at saving gas! |
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Title: Re: Rotella motor oil Post by Oldfeller on 08/31/09 at 18:45:54 I suspect between the lot of us here on this list (historical as well as current) we have a man-century's worth of knowledge about this particular scooter. It isn't perfect, but what bike really is? It responds well to efforts to improve it as it is currently delivered in a mildly FU & intentionally screwed up state of tune (thanks to the EPA and the EC's hp limits for starter bikes for that sad state of affairs). Hey, at least we don't have to go fishing some stupid "limiter washers" out from behind our carb inlet rubber boot like the Europeans have to do now-a-days. It is a low cost, high satisfaction scooter (especially if you get one used). Makes the worlds best wee bagger style get around town bike OR a right satisfying clean looking bobber OR a killer looking cafe racer. Versatile !! You can run it on the cheap, or you can dump endless money and attention into it, whatever trips your trigger. Plus it comes with us, the list -- built in help, commentary, oil wars and riding friends. |
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Title: Re: Rotella motor oil Post by vhfkid on 09/01/09 at 09:25:37 544D4E464B454B41434F220 wrote:
You're welcome I will accept donations to cover fuel to get the bikes back!! ;D VHFKID |
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Title: Re: Rotella motor oil Post by verslagen1 on 09/04/09 at 07:33:23 Put in the mobil1 20w50 last night, and a new filter. Measured the temperature with my trusty ir temp meter, 206°, just like it has all week with the 5w40 rotella. |
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Title: Re: Rotella motor oil Post by babyhog on 09/04/09 at 12:18:07 1330383A393030392E5C0 wrote:
Umm, may I as what the magnet is for? |
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Title: Re: Rotella motor oil Post by bill67 on 09/04/09 at 12:59:23 To attract attention |
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Title: Re: Rotella motor oil Post by babyhog on 09/04/09 at 13:10:14 Well more attention is the last thing I need... unless you mean me -- paying more attention... |
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Title: Re: Rotella motor oil Post by vhfkid on 09/04/09 at 13:14:05 42514647585553515A05340 wrote:
Thanks for the info! But were any of us, or you, expecting it to run cooler? :-? |
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Title: Re: Rotella motor oil Post by bill67 on 09/04/09 at 13:41:46 6063626F6D770E0 wrote:
No not you, If you needed a magnet Suzuki engineers would have put one there. |
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Title: Re: Rotella motor oil Post by verslagen1 on 09/04/09 at 13:43:14 6A747A7775781C0 wrote:
Thanks for the info! But were any of us, or you, expecting it to run cooler? :-?[/quote] No I wasn't expecting it to run cooler. I have to use klotz for that to happen. ::) Just reporting that M1 is just as efficient as RotSyn in conveying the heat from the internal parts to the exterior. |
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Title: Re: Rotella motor oil Post by bill67 on 09/04/09 at 13:47:55 You must have some sludge left in the pan from the Diesel oil,2 quarts want get me to the bottom line, It take almost 2 1/2 quarts to get to top line, the more oil the cooler the oil will be. |
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Title: Re: Rotella motor oil Post by Oldfeller on 09/04/09 at 14:14:09 Babyhog, Magnets are used on oil filters to remove fine bits of ferrous metal that would otherwise circulate in the oil. The idea is explained in detail here. http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1197231468/0 =============== Please excuse Bill, he is a little bit grumpy from losing another oil war again. Bill is a fan of Klotz oil, but he can't show that it is better than the other contenders, just more expensive. Bill doesn't lose very gracefully, so you can expect a stream of one liners that will attempt to derail other discussions. Bill unfortunately likes to throw out incorrect information intentionally in an attempt to confuse and irritate once he starts to lose. =============== Verslagen is attempting an experiment to see if a thicker synthetic oil will help his oil consumption issues. He is reporting set up data, that the thicker oil doesn't change operating temperature conditions in any meaningful fashion. What this has to do with diesel oil and sump capacity aka Bill, who knows? Verslagen is changing over from Rotella Syn 5w40 to Mobil 1 Syn 20w50 and he is reporting what he sees with this change. =============== Babyhog? What does the name mean? Curious ..... |
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Title: Re: Rotella motor oil Post by verslagen1 on 09/04/09 at 14:20:54 52595C5C0607300 wrote:
More likely Klotz is selling you the new concentrated version of oil. Weren't you supposed to add something to get it to full size? |
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Title: Re: Rotella motor oil Post by bill67 on 09/04/09 at 15:15:50 People please read page 911 in your owners manual. Use Diesel oil,Put magnets in your engine,Use car tires instead of motorcycles tires,Take out the tuned air box and play around with anything you want. ::) ::) |
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Title: Re: Rotella motor oil Post by Oldfeller on 09/04/09 at 15:41:46 Yup, and Bill will be there whenever we finally do get a Savage motor to spin fast enough to blow it up. And he will gleefully tell us that if we had just used Klotz syn oil, that hot cam, the increased compression and the flowed head would not have blown up the engine because the Klotz would have glued the con ron together with its superior lubricating qualities. Or more likely, he'll blame the diesel oil in the crankcase first and then tell us about the Klotz .... |
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Title: Re: Rotella motor oil Post by bill67 on 09/04/09 at 15:57:23 Seriously You should use a racing synthetic if you intend to get more horses out of it,Klotz is one of the first racing synthetics,I don't hop up or race but I do think its worth the extra money. |
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Title: Re: Rotella motor oil Post by babyhog on 09/05/09 at 19:58:09 Oldfeller, Thanks for the link on the magnet. Makes sense... I'm just new to all this stuff and enjoying learning. Ya'll have me so confused about oil, I hate to see the time come when I have to change mine... lol But I guess I need to go find me a magnet! The name "babyhog"... well, the guys my husband works with were teasing that my bike looked like a little baby hog. Plus, when we stop at red lights and such, I rev my engine, then my hubby revs his and I tell him to stop picking on my baby hog. So the name just kinda popped into my head when I was trying to pick a screen name.... I've often wondered what some of the other screen names mean too. Maybe I'll start a thread for people to explain theirs.... heck, that's probably been done. I need to use the search engine more.... ~babyhog~ :) |
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Title: Re: Rotella motor oil Post by FreeSpirit on 09/05/09 at 21:51:00 Baby hog....I enjoy learning all MC stuff also. And if you'd seen the Harley I saw the other day that was smaller than my Savage....you could tell the guys next time they say your savage is a babyhog,that its just a bigger Harley Panhead. (They have to be smaller,or my eyes are lying to me one...LOL) I'm kind of confused also and have no idea what kind of oil is best ::) But...I do know everyone thinks differently about it ;) |
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Title: Re: Rotella motor oil Post by BurnPgh on 09/05/09 at 22:04:48 i seriously love oil wars. It's like arguing who would win in a fight, batman or spiderman. Hilarious. |
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Title: Re: Rotella motor oil Post by boofer on 09/05/09 at 22:53:48 BurnPgh, Batman would win over Spiderman any day. Why? He uses a secret Rotella, Klotz, Castrol, blend of oil in the Batcycle. He keeps a case in the sidecar which really gets Robin upset. "Holy slick slippers, Batman". Boofer |
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Title: Re: Rotella motor oil Post by BurnPgh on 09/05/09 at 23:57:17 And when the rotella tainted oil causes the engine to blow up spidey will swing on by on his webs the way the good lord intended. And give Batman a kick in the head as he goes by. Batman will sink into a horrid depression as he has been bested by Spiderman. Bruce Wayne will squander his billions on lots of expensive booze, hookers, and blow eventually ending up a lowly train hopping bum traveling here to there having nowhere to go. Spiderman in the meantime will have let his superiority go to his head having no comparable super hero to compete with. He will eventually come to rule the people with an iron fist. But only for a short time. The people will grow restless and vengeful and they will rise. They will seize back from his wretched power the weapons of war. Tanks, ships and planes. A vast army will rise led by Great and Honorable Comrade General Bill. And when the loathed Spiderman finds himself on the prairie pursued by none other than Comrade General Bill he will flee for his life. In vain. Having no trees or bulding from which to cast his web and swing he is brought to a stolen savage as his only transportation, his only possesion...his only escape. But escape is not on the menu for Spidey. For ironically his ill gotten savage was lubricated with none other than Rotella T. The very same oil which has allowed him to smite Batmans unjustified ego and lead him to his glorious rise and untimately lead to his fleeing for his life from Comrade General Bill. Spidey's engine gives way after a grueling (fairly) high speed chase (85-90ish?). Desperately taking off on foot he is quickly apprehended by Comrade General Bill and promptly beated to death with the only weapon Bill has. A quart jug of Klotz. And no superman was not there. He got sick of @$$holes here on earth and went off with Kirk to get busy with green space ladies. (This wasnt intended to be offensive to anyone. Just ridiculous. I've had a couple drinks and started typing and this is what it ended up being. Hope you enjoyed) PS - I favor Rotella |
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Title: Re: Rotella motor oil Post by boofer on 09/06/09 at 00:38:53 BurnPgh, Beaten to death with a quart of Klotz. A sad way to go, but at the same time, the imagery is hilarious. Boofer |
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Title: Re: Rotella motor oil Post by Oldfeller on 09/06/09 at 01:52:45 Actually, our oil wars serve to educate each new wave of newbies about oil and other stuff. But an oil war ain't no place for a lady. Oil flies everywhere -- gets all in your hair and soaks thru your tee shirt and everything. Messy. FreeSpirit, since my bike got all beat up and has a nasty speed wobble you could keep up with me next summer right easy. I can't go past 65 mph right now, so I got me a limiter to keep me civilized. Mostly. Somewhat. |
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Title: Re: Rotella motor oil Post by Boule’tard on 09/06/09 at 05:46:49 6057504C72454A220 wrote:
LMAO ;D But.. what about the part where the people all said "but who can save us now?" and they tried to pull Batman out of retirement, but he's all "No, no, I'm all washed up" but then a little boy who almost lost his faith says "Batman! Catch!" and tosses him a quart of Amsoil which he drinks and it powers him up like Popeye on a can of spinach, ready to kick some ass. |
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Title: Re: Rotella motor oil Post by BurnPgh on 09/06/09 at 10:25:10 Batman went hobo remember? How would you find him? Bat signal? Good luck gettin him away from them hookers. |
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Title: Re: Rotella motor oil Post by Boule’tard on 09/06/09 at 13:52:29 Yes but you see, Amsoil also instills a sense of civic duty and kills your libido. Plus, even the hookers wouldn't go near him after he soiled his bat-suit. They don't call it AmSoil for nothin' |
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Title: Re: Rotella motor oil Post by BurnPgh on 09/06/09 at 20:03:58 civic duty huh? Right before he gets to the ER he helps an old lady cross the road. Besides which I cant imagine he'd fill out the batsuit well after a lengthy coke binge. In the worst of Rick James "cocain's a hell of a drug" |
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Title: Re: Rotella motor oil Post by FreeSpirit on 09/08/09 at 22:20:44 1C3F3735363F3F3621530 wrote:
Hey,not worried about keeping up....just enjoying the ride!! You should know by now I live in my own little world with my own speed...and rules....with Freedom being rule #1 8-) And rule #2-Dont get into oil wars ;) Glad YOU slowed down a little ;) ....not that I'm glad what caused it though. |
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Title: Re: Rotella motor oil Post by Oldfeller on 09/08/09 at 23:30:46 Ah, but I'm working on fixing it .... Speeds over 70 are fine, just have a harmonic wobble at 67mph now. |
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Title: Re: Rotella motor oil Post by Digger on 12/08/09 at 20:59:18 133034343C2B590 wrote:
FWIW.... Both the Rotella 5-40W synthetic and 15W-40 conventional motor oils now feature the JASO-MA rating. This is the rating given to motor oils that meet JASO standards for motorcycles like ours. By my reckoning, that makes the Rotella 15W-40 motor oil the least expensive MA rated oil out there. Looks good to me..... |
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Title: Re: Rotella motor oil Post by verslagen1 on 12/08/09 at 21:12:27 awe fudge [smiley=2vrolijk_08.gif] |
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Title: Re: Rotella motor oil Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/08/09 at 21:18:57 547977777562100 wrote:
FWIW.... Both the Rotella 5-40W synthetic and 15W-40 conventional motor oils now feature the JASO-MA rating. This is the rating given to motor oils that meet JASO standards for motorcycles like ours. By my reckoning, that makes the Rotella 15W-40 motor oil the least expensive MA rated oil out there. Looks good to me.....[/quote] & I Still have 6 gallons left.. |
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Title: Re: Rotella motor oil Post by BurnPgh on 12/08/09 at 22:02:52 FINALLY. Its official. Now maybe my friends will stop ribbing me about using a diesel truck oil. Even better, maybe they'll quit paying for overpriced "motorcycle oil" |
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Title: Re: Rotella motor oil Post by voldigicam on 12/09/09 at 18:22:55 From another forum: "New JASO oil standards (MA1, MA2): JASO effectively added the JASO-MA2 & JASO-MA1 specifications by splitting the existing JASO-MA spec into two groups by friction-performance (MA1 is the lower friction oils; MA2 the higher friction oils suitable for bikes). The change came out as final/approved in 2006 in response to catalytic converters becoming widespread in bikes (EPA/EU requirements); it was also prompted in part by the car-lobby of the JASO organization wanting to specify a subset of the JASO-MA oils for use in their cars (the low friction oils, which become JASO-MA1). JASO-MA2 is just starting to show up in the US Market as a rating because this is the first year that catalytic converter-equipped bikes are widespread. Aside from splitting the MA spec into two sub-groups, the new specs add a phosphorous content ceiling (better protect catalytic converters by using less, but phosphorous is also anti-wear additive, so it could be less start-up protection). JASO-MA2 being the heavier friction oils most suitable for motorcycle use will become the common standard for Japanese-built (and many Euro-built) motorcycles for the '08 and later model years. Note that JASO-MA2 can now be API SJ formulated, but API SL & API SM formulations still directly contradict JASO-MA/MA1/MA2 standards because of the use of friction modifiers that are not wet-clutch compatible." Neither my now-departed s40 nor my Volusia blew up (yet) from running Rotella. |
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Title: Re: Rotella motor oil Post by Oldfeller on 12/11/09 at 08:10:48 Yeah, it's official -- the world has done caught up with us crazy folks that read the silly bottles, do research and think. No more reason for having the endless oil war whenever things get boring any more. What's sad is that Rotella is so popular now the price has risen quite a bit lately -- it used to be relatively a lot cheaper when compared to Mobil 1 and all since it was "just a diesel oil" back then. Still, we all learned a bit during the various discussions we had over oil and its properties. I learned that we really don't have good enough air filtration to run really extended oil change intervals no matter how good the oil is -- and I also learned a lot about people's thought processes and what they think in their gut about motor oil. Now they have split JASO into car and motorcycle camps -- be very careful which JASO rating you think you need (JASO MA2 fits our bikes best for now). And, when they finally water down the JASO MA2 rating system for the new catalytic converter equipped bikes to the point JASO MA2 (and the "motorcycle" oils based on it) get a bit whimpy, you just remember that Rotella diesel oil will still be there and Rotella will still be quite suitable for a Savage engine. Also, remember this stuff exists and a couple of ounces of it per oil change will refortify your old favorite oil back up to flat tappet standards no matter which brand that was. This red stuff is concentrated ZDDP in a synthetic oil base, so don't just dump it in your bike -- it is a bumper concentrate and a couple of ounces is the right amount per oil change. http://www.pegasusautoracing.com/Images/L/1678.JPG Since I have the Stage 2 Cam in my bike Web Cam wants a whopping 1500 PPM of ZDDP in a racing type oil and I ain't buying me no $16 a quart racing oil to get it. I bought a whole quart the Redline bumper stuff for the same money and I have enough to put a couple of ounces (the needed amount) into a whole lot of diesel oil changes to get more than enough of what is needed to keep the Web Cam healthy .... |
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Title: Re: Rotella motor oil Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/11/09 at 08:38:20 I may look into a 55 gallon drum.. |
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Title: Re: Rotella motor oil Post by bill67 on 12/11/09 at 09:01:16 KLOTZ Hi-Performance TechniPlate Mx4- Zero wear oil,No additives needed. |
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Title: Re: Rotella motor oil Post by Gort on 12/11/09 at 09:18:43 http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk80/tlukatch/KL-860.jpg |
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Title: Re: Rotella motor oil Post by runwyrlph on 12/11/09 at 17:29:24 so... what kind do you like, Gort? |
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Title: Re: Rotella motor oil Post by Gort on 12/11/09 at 18:05:10 There is very little difference between the top oils of the various brands. That opinion has been repeatedly explained in great detail on the Internet by people whos business it is to know lubrication. I always use Mobil V-Twin motorcycle oil, because it is easily available to me and because I know it was designed for motorcycles by engineers with vastly more education and research funding then the combined sum of every member here. But I would also use Klotz, or Amsoil, or any of the other synthetic oils who's engineers say that it is correct for motorcycles, including synthetic Rotella (now that Shell's engineers have said it is okay for bike engines). Motor oil has become state of the art a long time ago, and the difference between the various manufacturer's best oils is insignificant enough to make little difference in your bike or car, so long as you use an oil approved for bike engines and their clutches, in your bike. The vigorous debating that goes on here has to do with some posters vainly insisting that their choice is best, to the point of becoming insulting. Then insults are returned, and then other members jump in and have fun with those posters, and the circus continues. Its like going to a zoo, and seeing the angry Gorilla in his cage, and throwing peanuts in his face to piss him off, and then laughing at his frustration. Thats what happens in these oil debates. |
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Title: Re: Rotella motor oil Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/11/09 at 19:00:35 Dont try that at the monkey cage....dont ask me how I know |
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Title: Re: Rotella motor oil Post by ero4444 on 12/12/09 at 14:10:14 you know, I thought it was a little silly for Gort to post the Klotz pic but I learned something - the bottle has a little impression of the right way to pour the bottle (spout up) that I never realized. That way the oil shouldn't gulp. |
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Title: Re: Rotella motor oil Post by BurnPgh on 12/12/09 at 14:15:51 Gort is vehemently opposed to Rotella even though it has now been approved for our uses by Shell. He swears by klotz ever chance he gets hence the picture. Its okay though, no ones perfect and we all forgive him. ;D I joke I joke but seriously... The oil fill hole is located in such a way that youre going to dump a bunch of oil all over the front of the case no matter which way you tip it. I just use a funnel. |
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Title: Re: Rotella motor oil Post by Gort on 12/12/09 at 17:42:08 Actually, I never heard of Klotz until Bill67 mentioned it. I posted the Klotz picture to put some smiles on faces of those who have been following this idiotic debate for over a year. I like Rotella, it tastes good. http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk80/tlukatch/gdcom_2081_641932846.jpg |
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Title: Re: Rotella motor oil Post by BurnPgh on 12/12/09 at 18:15:43 your right. Got you and bill mixed up some how. I've been following but not closely enoguh it seems. Its kind of like seinfeld. Entertaining but not something i really contemplate. |
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Title: Re: Rotella motor oil Post by bill67 on 12/12/09 at 18:41:05 Shells is only 50 years behind the other motor oils. |
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Title: Re: Rotella motor oil Post by Gort on 12/12/09 at 19:38:26 1423243806313E560 wrote:
The whole thing started when some members insisted that certain oils were the best, and then insulted and attacked those who disagreed. The debate went from interesting, to a free for all. |
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Title: Re: Rotella motor oil Post by BurnPgh on 12/12/09 at 20:16:39 7E7570702A2B1C0 wrote:
In all fairness, that means shell is only about 20 years behind the design of our bike. Silver lining my friend, silver lining. |
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