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General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> getting rid of decomp control and starter relay
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Message started by Bobbert on 08/26/09 at 22:33:01

Title: getting rid of decomp control and starter relay
Post by Bobbert on 08/26/09 at 22:33:01

I'm going bare bones and going to manual decomp. Do I need to rewire the ignition control or can I just remove the wiring to the decomp controller?

Is the starter relay necessary without the decomp control? Can I not just have a switch operating between the battery and the starter?

Title: Re: getting rid of decomp control and starter rela
Post by speedingman on 08/26/09 at 23:10:29

According to the clymer's diagram the decomp solenoid is controlled by the control unit (starter solenoid controller) it is not interlocked with anything, so you could just unplug it, but i would use caution as book says can cause engine damage is decomp is not working.

Title: Re: getting rid of decomp control and starter rela
Post by dasch on 08/27/09 at 00:08:38

and I believe you do need a starter relay. A lot of amps run through those contacts on starting, your "start" button would melt, all with wiring to it and back in 5 secs. recommend you keep it at least.

Title: Re: getting rid of decomp control and starter rela
Post by drharveys on 08/27/09 at 05:04:20

Starter?

We don't need no stinkin' starters! And that includes the kick start kind!

Real savages know how to do the "run and bump" start!

Anything else, and you might as well just take the meow mix you wimpy pussycat! ;D

Title: Re: getting rid of decomp control and starter rela
Post by mpescatori on 08/27/09 at 05:10:34

BobberT, my first bike was a 450cc Ducati with high compression and kick start only.

Manual decompression means the engine must turn VERY slowly because not even the most experienced rider can synchronize a manual decompression lever with the electric starter cranking the engine.

The Savage's starter motor is designed to take the electric decompressor into account, else it would have been twice as large...
... and cranking amps twice as many, and the battery would have been twice as big.

Leave it as it is, else get used to bump starting :-X

Title: Re: getting rid of decomp control and starter rela
Post by clueless on 08/27/09 at 05:43:02

You could replace the starter relay with a simple high current relay. There are some solid state switches that can handle the current. A plain switch to handle it would look kind of like the disconnect on a breaker box...huge. Automotive headlights use a relay and don't pull near the current we are talking about. Sometimes simpler isn't as reliable.

Title: Re: getting rid of decomp control and starter rela
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/27/09 at 06:38:59

The decomp timer fires the solenoid & sets the lever under the exhaust valve before firing the starter. It only holds it long enough to let the starter make sure the engine isnt coming up on compression & not have it spinning already. It drops the decomp after about .2 secs, I think. All someone needs do is pull the cable & hit the button & let go the cable after a short bit, no damage.

Title: Re: getting rid of decomp control and starter rela
Post by mikestrikes on 08/27/09 at 18:52:35

Well I tossed my wiring harness in the trash........... I have a few motorcycle starter solenoids and will just wire one in, lever on the decomp... thats it.

Thumb the decomp lever........... hit starter button........... let off decomp lever.

Whats so hard about that ? :-?

Title: Re: getting rid of decomp control and starter rela
Post by dasch on 08/27/09 at 23:39:47

Nothing. There's a few off road beasts that use the same method.

Title: Re: getting rid of decomp control and starter rela
Post by Bobbert on 10/26/09 at 10:36:40

Im having troubles with my wiring setup. Has anyone done this whole thing successfully?

Title: Re: getting rid of decomp control and starter rela
Post by Phelonius on 10/26/09 at 11:17:00

On the subject of wiring, My engine recently quit when a main fuze blew.
We all know how much fun it is to track down the source of that.
Well, I got lucky. When I removed the tank, I immediately saw a wire showing bare burnt copper through a chaffed spot. The loom had chaffed away then the insulation, finally a small spot of paint on the underside of the tank went bare and the deed was done. I rerouted the clutch cable and throttle cable to allow for a bit more room. Then some liquid neoprene insulation and a little electricians tape, two new fuzes and I am on the road again.
Next time any of you folks have your tank off, look under it for bare spots, then look for a chaffed wire at that point. It could save you some time not spent on the side of the road.

Phelonis

Title: Re: getting rid of decomp control and starter rela
Post by verslagen1 on 10/26/09 at 11:21:36

more info please
what trouble are you having?

Title: Re: getting rid of decomp control and starter rela
Post by Bobbert on 10/28/09 at 10:10:54

6B6F7272702C2A2A2B1D0 wrote:

cFlow and I came up with this diagram. It get's rid of the decomp timer/relay & solenoid, and let's you use the third key position (park) to start the bike. for a 5-wire rect.

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g152/vroom1776/5wire_park_Start.jpg?t=1181055224

I used this diagram to wire my bike. I set up a separate switch for the starter instead of wiring through the ignition. I have not set up the lights yet. I'm questioning why there's the wire spliced between the CDI and spark coil that goes into the ignition.

I'm getting 12.5 V on my Big Crank battery. I'm going to take it in and see how many amps it's putting out under load.

Problems:
1) I've run the starter through both the relay and by jumping it straight from the battery with car jumper cables. I've done this with the spark plug removed. In both scenarios, the engine turned slowly- reaching TDC about 2 to 3 times a second.

2) I hooked up the main cables of the relay to the starter and ground but I'm having issues with the relay.
A) Sticking a screwdriver between the two poles of the starter does not create a short. Contacts might be dirty.
B) Because I don't have the starter switch yet, I've touching the end of the switch leg to the relay to the positive terminal. It usually activates the starter on the first try or two, but successive attempts only activate the relay. I've checked the voltage on the battery after doing this and it remains fairly constant.

3) I'm not getting spark

Title: Re: getting rid of decomp control and starter rela
Post by babyhog on 10/28/09 at 10:15:30

Bobbert, I apologize for hacking your thread for this question, but it doesn't appear that the Savage Riders Map has been updated in some time. Is it possible for anyone other than you to update it? I'd be happy to help, if possible.

Title: Re: getting rid of decomp control and starter rela
Post by Bobbert on 10/28/09 at 10:42:29

yes, I'm way too busy to do it, but it's possible.

Title: Re: getting rid of decomp control and starter rela
Post by verslagen1 on 10/28/09 at 13:38:44

Having had a wiring issue recently, I've been interested in rewiring. But not to the degree that you're going. I'll see if I can pare down the wiring diagram until it makes sense and compare with the example linked in.

Yes, there are a couple of wires that milton bradley would be proud of.

Title: Re: getting rid of decomp control and starter rela
Post by Bobbert on 10/29/09 at 12:32:53

cool!

I'm going to take the battery to get tested. As I read in another thread, if the voltage is low there won't be a spark.

Title: Re: getting rid of decomp control and starter rela
Post by Bobbert on 11/03/09 at 12:19:20

62716667787573717A25140 wrote:

Hey Mike,

Have you made any headway into this?

Title: Re: getting rid of decomp control and starter rela
Post by verslagen1 on 11/03/09 at 21:34:32

http://verslagen.savageriders.com/images/96-04-ig-starter.JPG

Working from a '96 to '04 wiring diagram, I paired it down to this.
Uses the existing controls and neutral light.

The question marks are where I had to make a judgement call.
Check it out before hard wiring.

Title: Re: getting rid of decomp control and starter rela
Post by verslagen1 on 11/03/09 at 22:27:11

Here's the charging circuit

http://verslagen.savageriders.com/images/'96-'03 Charging circuit.JPG

Title: Re: getting rid of decomp control and starter rela
Post by Bobbert on 11/30/09 at 22:37:36

any progress on this?