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Message started by Mattdw on 08/26/09 at 09:36:10

Title: Turn signal wiring diagnosis
Post by Mattdw on 08/26/09 at 09:36:10

I seem to have an ongoing saga with my turn signals.
I'm replacing the front turn signals.
I purchased some turn signals that only have 2 wires, so I soldered a wire to the lamp housing for the 3rd wire, which should work fine.

This is a used bike...and someone else had already replaced the front signals with some cruddy ones that I'm replacing. Unfortunately, the wiring job left 3 unmarked wires. It would seem that it "should" be easy to figure out what wires go where, but I'm having issues.

I would like to be able to use my multimeter to just simply measure voltages and get the right wire to the right place...but...I don't know what the correct voltages should be.

I've tried a number of configurations where it "almost" works...left signal flashes appropriately, but then when i turn on the right signal, both flash, or all lights seem to flash...

It's MADDENING...

and to top it off I'm an electronics engineer!...DUH

So lemme ask you troubleshooters this...

Let's say you have cut off BOTH your 3 wire front turn signals, without knowing which wire goes where, how would you start hooking it all back up?

Title: Re: Turn signal wiring diagnosis
Post by Phelonius on 08/26/09 at 09:47:44

Use your VOM to establish which one is ground first by turning on the lights,then he the turn signal. then use the same meter o figure which wire does what. rewire accordingly.
BTW It is all a 12 volt system whith voltages okay up to 13.8 when the engine is running.

Phelonius

Title: Re: Turn signal wiring diagnosis
Post by verslagen1 on 08/26/09 at 09:49:21

W/o looking at an example... so get a pail of salt to pour on...
black and a stripe tend to be ground, color and stripe tend to be positive.
if only one sig is flashing then that one is hooked up right (or left as the case may be)
If all four are flashing, try another.
Do only one light at a time too. unhook the ones you're not sure about.

Title: Re: Turn signal wiring diagnosis
Post by Mattdw on 08/26/09 at 09:49:35

7D454841424344585E2D0 wrote:

So the ground with reference to the bike frame?

Title: Re: Turn signal wiring diagnosis
Post by Serowbot on 08/26/09 at 09:52:52

Use your meter, set for 12 volt dc.... turn on the ignition, two wires should have voltage,...they're your front running lights, tape them off if you have single filament bulbs.
Then put on your left blinker,...check the wires for voltage... the one that reads is your left blinker hot. Repeat for the right.
The last two are grounds...

That's what I'd do...
Try it,... and then tell me where I screwed up.... :-?

Forgot to say.... touch your negative probe to raw metal on the frame for grounding while you are testing....

Title: Re: Turn signal wiring diagnosis
Post by Mattdw on 08/26/09 at 10:07:37

2F392E332B3E33285C0 wrote:

So, in theory, when ONLY the running lights are on, I should only see a voltage on ONE wire on a given side, left or right.
When the turn signal is ON, does voltage remain at the running light? In other words, will I see voltage on two wires on a given side at that point?

Title: Re: Turn signal wiring diagnosis
Post by Serowbot on 08/26/09 at 10:24:34

"when ONLY the running lights are on, I should only see a voltage on ONE wire on a given side, left or right."

Yes...

Title: Re: Turn signal wiring diagnosis
Post by verslagen1 on 08/26/09 at 11:32:30

and signal is brighter than running

Title: Re: Turn signal wiring diagnosis
Post by RidgeRunner13 on 08/26/09 at 12:15:21

Multi-meters are nice but can be a royal PITA for checking simple circuits. For something simpler try this.

Go to your local hardware store & buy a door bell, the old chrome style that uses a transformer. Pickup a set of test leads (or make your own) & attach one end of the leads to the bell. You now have a circuit tester that rrrrriiiinnnngggssss when you have power & has enough resistance to make a turn signal flash. Connect a lead to 12v+ & use it to check your grounds. Much easier than having to look at a meter or test light. Really works great for checking fuel pump circuits that only energize for a few seconds when you turn the key on. Or when you're checking trailer light circuits. :)

Title: Re: Turn signal wiring diagnosis
Post by Mattdw on 08/26/09 at 15:45:01

Just working on this tonight.
Just to be sure the wiring isn't totally hosed...
Should the running light ALWAYS be lit, even when the turn signal flashes, or, should the running light go out while the flasher is going?

Title: Re: Turn signal wiring diagnosis
Post by Serowbot on 08/26/09 at 15:48:40

always,... I think...

Title: Re: Turn signal wiring diagnosis
Post by Savage_Amusement on 08/27/09 at 08:02:58

Alright on the left side while sitting on the bike.

You will have a black wire with a white stripe. That is the ground that eventually ends back up at the battery.

Solid black is the left signal light
Lighter color is running.

Same goes for the right side.

Black with white is ground.
Darkest color is signal
Lightest is running.

Depending on the years some of the colors are a little different.

Also they are always on.

Title: Re: Turn signal wiring diagnosis
Post by Mattdw on 08/27/09 at 08:13:00

173B263A312627203B263167646464540 wrote:

THANKS!!!
I think there are some other electrical problems going on in my system, because even the running lights don't read 12V...they read somewhere around 9V
I'm gonna check all the way back at the battery. Assuming that across the battery itself I should read much closer to 12V

Title: Re: Turn signal wiring diagnosis
Post by Savage_Amusement on 08/27/09 at 08:14:11

They are more dim than the signal lights, so that might be why.

Title: Re: Turn signal wiring diagnosis
Post by Mattdw on 08/27/09 at 08:17:11

496578646F78797E65786F393A3A3A0A0 wrote:

They are more dim than the signal lights, so that might be why.

This is a used bike, and someone had already messed with some of the wiring, because I have been seeing other issues.

Maybe this is normal, but I see "ghosting" in the blinkers, in that, when a turn signal is on, I can see the running light slightly dim and brighten too, as well as the opposite turn signal.

Looking at the wiring diagram, I see no immediate reason why that should be the case...perhaps my flasher is going bad ? Any way to test/verify that?

Title: Re: Turn signal wiring diagnosis
Post by Savage_Amusement on 08/27/09 at 08:27:28

It would be a lot easier if I could see the setup, then I would have a better Idea of what is going on lol. Does everything have good clean grounds? What does your speedometer lights do?

Title: Re: Turn signal wiring diagnosis
Post by Mattdw on 08/27/09 at 08:32:51

507C617D766160677C617620232323130 wrote:

It would be a lot easier if I could see the setup, then I would have a better Idea of what is going on lol. Does everything have good clean grounds? What does your speedometer lights do?

My "ground" wires are reading about 0.5V ... I would have thought they should definitely read 0.0V

Speedometer lights seem to flash correctly when I only have one side hooked up...once I hook up the other side, things get messy. So I might just have problems on one side.

Worst part is, I only have about 10 minutes or so working time before the battery is too dead to drive the flasher relay :(, then I have to charge the battery, and start again.

I'm starting to get the feeling there is a bigger problem somewhere else.

Title: Re: Turn signal wiring diagnosis
Post by Savage_Amusement on 08/27/09 at 08:36:39

Yeah your battery should last longer than 10 mins. I will sometimes leave my battery on the charger (trickle) while I'm testing out my issues. That way as soon as the switch goes off the charging starts.

Title: Re: Turn signal wiring diagnosis
Post by verslagen1 on 08/27/09 at 08:39:24

10 minutes of flasher time? either your battery is toast or you gotta short. check the flasher, does it get hot?

And if it starts acting screwy when the other side is hooked up, check that side wiring. Or unhook the 1st side then hook up 2nd side 1st.

1/2 volt ground? should be 0 volts. you gotta fix that. check the ground from the battery to the engine.

Title: Re: Turn signal wiring diagnosis
Post by Mattdw on 08/27/09 at 08:41:19

564552534C4147454E11200 wrote:

Looking at the wiring diagram, I can't tell where the battery is actually grounded to the frame. I have a '96.
I think I have a grounding, and possibly shorting problem.

Title: Re: Turn signal wiring diagnosis
Post by Mattdw on 08/27/09 at 08:57:10

If I disconnect the positive and negative leads from the battery, I'm assuming that the two turn signal 'hot' wires should have NO continuity with the frame ground?

Title: Re: Turn signal wiring diagnosis
Post by verslagen1 on 08/27/09 at 09:01:17

31382B34393D2833325C0 wrote:

Looking at the wiring diagram, I can't tell where the battery is actually grounded to the frame. I have a '96.
I think I have a grounding, and possibly shorting problem.

check the battery, follow the wire, should attache to the engine right behind the oil level window.

Title: Re: Turn signal wiring diagnosis
Post by Savage_Amusement on 08/27/09 at 09:02:09

one of the major grounds on my bike is right behind the clutch lever, no not the one for your hand, the one that goes into the right lower case.

Title: Re: Turn signal wiring diagnosis
Post by Serowbot on 08/27/09 at 09:51:47

Pull your headlight bulb while you figure this out.... it'll help with battery life.......

Title: Re: Turn signal wiring diagnosis
Post by Mattdw on 08/27/09 at 12:07:22

687E69746C79746F1B0 wrote:

Pull your headlight bulb while you figure this out.... it'll help with battery life.......

Great suggestion :)
THANKS

Title: Re: Turn signal wiring diagnosis
Post by Mattdw on 08/27/09 at 12:09:16

I'm looking to check for any short there may be in the system...because my battery life is so bad.

With the ignition off (key out), I'm assuming I can simply disconnect pos or neg from battery, and put my ammeter inline and look for any current drain?

Title: Re: Turn signal wiring diagnosis
Post by Savage_Amusement on 08/27/09 at 12:27:20

If you have the seat off already you can unhook the two rear turn signals, sometimes they wear/rub the coating off under the side pieces. Might help to pull the tank off as well.

There is also some wires that go RIGHT next to the seat holder in the front that also holds down the tank, I've seen that pinched before.

Does the bulbs on the fronts have dual elements or single? That will make a difference as well.

Title: Re: Turn signal wiring diagnosis
Post by Mattdw on 08/28/09 at 06:57:09

7C504D515A4D4C4B504D5A0C0F0F0F3F0 wrote:

Fronts have dual elements...rear ones do too (plan to have running lights on back)

This weekend is a 'wiring weekend'. I've been hoping I wouldn't have to tear her all down, but, not something I'm scared of...I've had the tank off before, and seats and such.

When I got the bike, the vacuum wasn't hooked to the petcock (ran out of gas cause it was on PRI), and the air filter was gone altogether...and the rear brake pedal return spring was unhooked...and...and...and...and...

You get the idea, but all in all, she's been a fun ride.

I would be lying if I said I didn't love to tear it down and do this kind of stuff :)