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Message started by bravogang on 08/25/09 at 22:25:26

Title: 650 savage
Post by bravogang on 08/25/09 at 22:25:26

replaced battery and still wont start. Not electrical problem. Starter is fine. mechanic thinks "fuel lock" tells me fuel not reaching carburator and or pistons full of gasoline. I did not notice any gasoline on garage floor. Mech says working on it. What the hell is fuel lock and can be prevented? I did try to push the bike to try to get her started. Could this have caused the problem? Is it expensive to fix? thanks. bravogang Pepe.

Title: Re: 650 savage
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/25/09 at 22:41:17

In my mind, fuel lock is a cylinder with so much fuel in it the piston cant go over the top. If so, gotta pull the plug & spin it over, then change the oil. No start until the oil is changed.
Then, the carb needs work, so the needle seats & shuts fuel off when the float rises, maybe a float adj would be in order, too.

When you tried to push start it, did the tire just slide or did the motor spin over at all?

Title: Re: 650 savage
Post by verslagen1 on 08/25/09 at 22:57:53

mechanic is pulling answers out of his @$$.

fuel lock? hydro lock? cylinder full of liquid. liquid can't be compressed. remove spark plug, turn over, fuel shoots out if it's there.

2 ways for gas to get in cylinder, float valve bad, or float full of gas, goes into carb overflows drains into cylinder. OK, what's a simple way to check float valve, what comes to mind is pull off low side vent tube, put petcock on prime. Think that will work?

second way, petcock bad, gas flows thru vac line into carb, etc. Check for gas in vacuum line.

Even though you got a new battery, check the voltage, the ignition system is voltage sensitive. If it drops too much, it'll turn over but not start.

Now you need to give us some facts before we can help you better.

Year?
Mileage?
new to you bike?
bike sat idle for how long?
new to riding?

Title: Re: 650 savage
Post by kennycreed on 08/25/09 at 23:16:48

Try new spark plug, sometimes SOME PLUGS??? sparks fine when you earth it to the cyl head to test it, but for some unknown reason, won't spark when tightened down in cyl head and gets all wet with petrol. Take out your plug spin the engine a couple of times with the starter to blow the excess fuel out of the cylinder, then put the NEW!!! plug in and try starting with half choke and no throttle. ALSO CHECK OIL LEVEL IN CASE FUEL HAS DRAINED DOWN FROM THE CYLINDER INTO IT,,,CHEERS,,KENNY

P.S. Always use a new plug,,they work hard and are cheap enough considering the work they do

Title: Re: 650 savage
Post by Serowbot on 08/25/09 at 23:41:00

Fuel lock,... is a mystical thing mechanics blame when they need more time to figure out what's wrong....

Like when the coroner says,... "he died of lack of oxygen",...'course he did!,... that's what everybody ultimately dies of!....

Really,.... if a lot cranking has happened and no start,... the gas flow can wipe the cylinder walls clean of oil, and you'll have no compression...
pull the plug and give a squirt of oil in there.... to reestablish compression....

Title: Re: 650 savage
Post by speedingman on 08/26/09 at 01:05:23

Once you pull the plug and turn it a few times check for spark while you got the plug out. if good or looks good, put back in prime the carb make sure your getting fuel, check oil, better to change it. then if still no start try a shot of starter fluid, see if she fires then, if mine sits for a few days sometimes i have to shoot it, just a little squirt is anough to bring her alive. Does it sound like it wants to start or just turning over?

Title: Re: 650 savage
Post by prechermike on 08/26/09 at 04:34:35

3A343F3F283223343435510 wrote:

Title: Re: 650 savage
Post by mpescatori on 08/26/09 at 06:06:01

4A485F59525F485753515F3A0 wrote:

[quote author=3A343F3F283223343435510 link=1251264327/0#3 date=1251267408]Try new spark plug, sometimes SOME PLUGS??? sparks fine when you earth it to the cyl head to test it, but for some unknown reason, won't spark when tightened down in cyl head and gets all wet with petrol.
P.S. Always use a new plug,,they work hard and are cheap enough considering the work they do

Title: Re: 650 savage
Post by prechermike on 08/26/09 at 06:16:28

667B6E78686A7F6479620B0 wrote:

[quote author=4A485F59525F485753515F3A0 link=1251264327/0#6 date=1251286475][quote author=3A343F3F283223343435510 link=1251264327/0#3 date=1251267408]Try new spark plug, sometimes SOME PLUGS??? sparks fine when you earth it to the cyl head to test it, but for some unknown reason, won't spark when tightened down in cyl head and gets all wet with petrol.
P.S. Always use a new plug,,they work hard and are cheap enough considering the work they do

Kenny,

That is a true but weird thing that happens to my Honda Fourtrax (ATV). For some reason the plug will simply quit sparking under compression. It does not matter if there is petrol (we say gas) on it or not. Outside, grounded to the frame, the spark is strong and bright, but the thing will not start at all. Put in a new plug and away you go. I never heard anyone else say that, though.
[/quote]

There are two remedies to this problem.
We don't necessarily ALWAYS have a new spare plug at hand.

1) Pull the plug out and "dry it" with a lighter or a match - that's to burn any possible fuel residue away;
2) clean the plug with a nail file (excellent handy item, especially the ones your missus will discard) to clean any carbon residue;
3) open up the gap from the recommended 0.4mm to about 0.8mm (you guys figure that out in 64ths inch)
What this does is to avoid that over-rich air/fuel mixture will soil (wet, foul) the spark plug before the engine's even started.
However, the plug will still spark.

The other remedy (which works wonders especially when occasionally touring high-altitude places) is to change the plug with a 3 or 4 pronged spark plug.
The 3, 4 prongs NEVER fire ALL together, there's only one firing at any one time,
BUT
you can foul one, maybe maybe two, never all three at the same time, and every single successful spark cleans the fouled prongs each and every time.

8-)

Take care, though, that the spark will fire downwards rather than sideways, so prolonged use of such a plug (meaning, many months) may result in a holed piston.

But, as a "once in a while" solution, it's magic...

:)[/quote]

Mpescatori

I have tried all of those things (except the 3-4 prong thing), they are all good ideas, but sometimes the plug for that honda simply will not fire. Like I said, outside there is a strong, bright spark, but in the cylinder, nothing (as best I can tell, I am not in there looking! :D I believe it only quit running once, but the other couple of times it simply refused to start without a new plug. This is not a frequent occurance, just a a few times in the years I have had the thing. IDK, maybe the plug . . . what happens to plugs anyway that they quit firing? :-? (I know if they are dirty, cracked or whatever, but I can see no reason when that happens)

I try to keep a spare plug on hand and when all else fails, I change it.

Title: Re: 650 savage
Post by drums1 on 08/26/09 at 08:45:29

You may want to check the decomp solenoid, make sure it is adjusted properly. Fuel lock? Never heard of it. Vapor lock, on the other hand, is a real thing that can happen on some older cars, preventing fuel from flowing. But that only happens on a very HOT engine, under certain circumstances. Not on a cold motorcycle engine. Yes, your mechanic is grabbing at straws.
I would check the float, needle and seat, clean carb, check fuel and vacuum lines, check petcock for proper operation, new plug, a squirt of oil in cylinder, and by all means, if there is gas in oil, it must be changed. (filter too) Make sure you have spark, and you should be riding.